Heavy Intercessors Options

[NKirkham24]

So having seen the datasheet for the new Heavy Intercessors which option do you think would be best for Ultramarines?

 

I know that we are in the dark on points currently, but regardless, how would you be building your squads? Which weapon option offers the best utility for us and our unique chapter tactics/doctrines etc. 

 

[apologist]

Lots to chew on here; I've been excited by the prospect of Heavy Intercessors for a couple of reasons. Firstly, they offer me a nice way to field my terminator-based 'Truescale' conversions with suitably beefy stats. The 'walking tank' look fits these to a T. Secondly, I've always loved infantry; it's where the heart of the game is for me; so more options – particularly for troops – is very welcome.

 

For Ultramarines, I think pretty much any of the options can be viable. My gut instinct is to go for Heavy Bolt Rifles supported by a Heavy Bolter as a go-to. Versatile, reliable and good mid–late game, this Rapid Fire weapon is a good all-rounder, particularly in Tactical doctrine. The longer range than a typical bolter is also valuable, and if I'm right in thinking that extends to a longer double-shot(?), then that also helps mitigate the lower numbers you'll be able to field.

 

For fighting other marines, the Executor Bolt Rifle seems sensible. The threat of a -3 save modifier should keep most enemy down, while keeping a Captain close helps them move without losing too much accuracy. As a nice addition, the Ultramarines' doctrine means they can fall back from combat; where the Heavy weapons suffer no more than if they were simply moving (max -1 negative modifier).

 

The Hellstorm options are nice, but I don't think the Assault weapon option is quite as attractive here as on normal Intercessors, as they're on slower platforms and with fewer bodies. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It’s a tough decision and really depends on what else your taking as well .

[Riddlesworth]

It’s a tough decision and really depends on what else your taking as well .

This.

 

 

And also what you want the unit to do. For example; Scions of Guilliman means Executioners can be mobile, but the math on executioner vs heavy bolt rifle in tactical doctrine is exactly the same, and the heavy bolt rifle will be better against numerous 1W hordes. If other parts of your army have the horde aspect covered (Aggressors, for example), maybe you can afford to take the executioners to liberally use squad doctrines on once they get to the spot where they'll be planted for the rest of the battle.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You can only take so many troops... I do like to take four troops, one of which is always Inflitrators. I’m thinking two squads of Intercessors with auto bolt rifle and one squad of heavy Intercessors with Executor bolt rifles and a heavy Executor heavy bolter. Intercessors are more tactical since their sergeants can take power fists and thunderhammers.

[Prot]

I'm having a lot of trouble 1: deciding on which load out actually compliments my UM basic army. and 2: deciding if these guys work at all.

 

I'm not trying to be negative, in fact originally I was sure I was going to be big on these guys as the UM use of troops might be one of their strongest strategies. 

 

The Executor Heavy Bolter, to me, is by far the best option of the bunch. This reminds me of old school marines, where you have a stronger weapon in the squad, and the rest of the unit has to be taken out before the Executor is toast.

 

The bad news is the best of all these options (and the worst) is all Strength 5, which for my money makes the appearance of 'flexibility' an illusion. 

 

They are slow, and unrealistic to transport. They will be contesting for the outflank style reserves against superior units that are meant to hit harder. (Can you imagine an 'old school' Multi Melta UM Dev squad walking in the side of the board T2?)

 

If you're playing a more aggressive force of Ultra's like me, I think this unit is simply going to be too expensive to leave behind on an objective. Heck an Impulsor is going to do a MUCH better job of blocking out back line infiltration/deep strike, while being cheaper, and perhaps even harder to remove from the table.

 

Damage is ramping up across the board in 40K. 9th edition keeps showing glimpses of more damage, and more range with almost every release. It is getting to the point that cheap, disposable units that make a complete waste of expensive 3 damage weapons, are going to be a strong counter, since they would (in theory) be numerically superior. (This is how Orks are winning GT's at this early stage of 9th ed).

 

These guys in my army just don't seem worth taking the role of my Incursors (gold) and Intercessors (silver) which have a larger footprint, faster, transportable, and have a stronger impact in close combat (hammer/fist/power sword options).

 

I've always been someone who prefers the ultra flexible units over one dimensional lists, and at this early stage I feel like these guys are good at one thing: Sitting in back-to-mid field, plopping on an objective, and driving out low-to-mid toughness elite units. The cost for this is going to be a huge factor, because Intercessors do this exact thing fairly well, with more flexibility. 

 

Maybe their biggest use is in the Ultra firepower blob, housed around a Gravis Captain / Marneus, simply providing a giant slab of meat to protect said characters from being shot to death. (but again, I already use Bladeguard for this and they have those nice shields at reasonable costs.)

 

That's just me... I admit I'm more than willing to change my opinion on these guys, the biggest factor being points cost. 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Prot

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Yeah they are very static.

[mel_danes]

I cannot speak to the tactical performance of this unit, my strategic predictions rarely come true. As a non competitive player I use units I like the look and narrative of, and these guys hit me right in the feels.
Since the release of the Primaris line in 8th I have dreamt of having a viable force of each type of Mark X armor, Tacticus, Phobos and Gravis. Many a battle scribe list began with the force title Gravis Wall. Now that is about to become a reality.
I love the look of these guys, the weapon parity diversity with basic Intercessors and Hellblasters is super cool.
Will they win me games, probably not, will they stress out my Ork opponent, most likely.

GW are a miniatures company, its not always about performance. Sometimes we use units cause they look cool. Hell I still  use Reivers, and they are categorically hot trash in game, but they look cool.

Edited September 16, 2020 by mel_danes

[NKirkham24]

I certainly agree, love the look of these guys and will definitely be getting a squad.

 

I’ll just use them for backfield objectives to start and see how they do, most likely with the executors for the higher damage output.

[OttoVonAwesome]

Bolt rifle option looks best to me. Tactical doctrine, intercessors keyword for strategems, plop em down on an objective prefferably in cover. Let your myriad other troops like tacticals in rhinos and assualt bolter intercessors do the mobile work. Executor bolters don't have many shots and the d2 is wasted on many units with only one turn of devastator doctrine just leave that option to the fist players.

[Captain Idaho]

I'm with Prot... the Heavy variant seems great thanks tonthe damage increase over a few S5 shots with D1.

 

Unless the squad is ludicrously cheap, in which case they become an easy choice.

 

I'm also against using an expensive unit for babysitting deployment objectives. Though the increased survivability of this unit lends itself to front line and more exposed objectives.

 

Remains to be see how good they are, purely based on points. I'm not sure they'll have a sweet spot. They will either be really cheap and eclipse Intercessors as the front line infantry, or be too expensive compared to other options.

[Prot]

I'm with Prot... the Heavy variant seems great thanks tonthe damage increase over a few S5 shots with D1.

 

Unless the squad is ludicrously cheap, in which case they become an easy choice.

 

I'm also against using an expensive unit for babysitting deployment objectives. Though the increased survivability of this unit lends itself to front line and more exposed objectives.

 

Remains to be see how good they are, purely based on points. I'm not sure they'll have a sweet spot. They will either be really cheap and eclipse Intercessors as the front line infantry, or be too expensive compared to other options.

 

I keep looking back at this datasheet and I'm really feeling like this squad has to be exceptionally cheap or I'm most likely skipping it. I don't think they suit my playstyle. I'd rather have a hidden TFC or even sniper scouts guarding a rear objective.

 

Thinking of this from a GW economic perspective, I am suspecting a strat or two will turn these guys into a serious unit as long as you have CP. 

 

There are some people (I personally believe) way over reacting on how potent having 3 wounds is. I was reflecting back on my last 3-4 games and between multi- Manticores, Riptide guns, poison guns, there are just going to be times where these guys are going to disappear.

 

I'm sticking with GW wanting to sell this kit via strats and/or points. Let's face it we all have gobs of 'starter set' Intercessors. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I like the Executor bolt rifle but agree it’s not the optimal choice.

[Riddlesworth]

 

 

I keep looking back at this datasheet and I'm really feeling like this squad has to be exceptionally cheap or I'm most likely skipping it. I don't think they suit my playstyle. I'd rather have a hidden TFC or even sniper scouts guarding a rear objective.

 

 

 

Priced to shift then nerf batted into obliviion in 6 months? Perish the thought :D

 

With the playstyle i've been moving towards (and the datasheet leaks for incursors), i also see the only spot for them being guarding a rear objective with the executor rifle and if push comes to shove on points, that could become eliminators, sniper scouts or stalker bolter intercessors really quickly.

[Prot]

 

 

 

I keep looking back at this datasheet and I'm really feeling like this squad has to be exceptionally cheap or I'm most likely skipping it. I don't think they suit my playstyle. I'd rather have a hidden TFC or even sniper scouts guarding a rear objective.

 

 

 

Priced to shift then nerf batted into obliviion in 6 months? Perish the thought

 

With the playstyle i've been moving towards (and the datasheet leaks for incursors), i also see the only spot for them being guarding a rear objective with the executor rifle and if push comes to shove on points, that could become eliminators, sniper scouts or stalker bolter intercessors really quickly.

 

 

Exactly. That's exactly what I'm worried about. And this is why I suspect it will be a very strong Strat that (eventually) comes out for these guys: IE: if you didn't move, shoot twice, or a "vets of the Long War" kind of thing. That's what would make people use them instead of the mountain of Infantry we already own that would be fine sitting in the back of our deployment zone.

 

In other words I don't think we are seeing the full story with these guys. (or could the be another "Reiver" squad in the making?)

Edited September 25, 2020 by Prot

[Captain Idaho]

Outside of some decent Strategum support that makes this unit stand out in its niche, it's all in the points values. Either it'll be really cheap and thus force its way into usefulness, thus making Intercessors decidedly inferior (why pay 18pts for an Intercessor when you're paying 23pts for a Heavy Intercessor?) or the unit will be too expensive for a job that a cheaper unit will perform their role most cases.

 

You could very well be right there Prot. An expensive Troops choice that gets a very powerful Strategum support so they are useful. Maybe firing twice if remaining stationary, or +1 to wound.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It does not look like heavycessors will have access to power weapons for the sergeant which can be a big deal plus you can’t really transport them unless you want to run repulsors. They have a place in the right lists but they are inherently more restrictive.

[emperorpants]

It does not look like heavycessors will have access to power weapons for the sergeant which can be a big deal plus you can’t really transport them unless you want to run repulsors. They have a place in the right lists but they are inherently more restrictive.

This.

 

I think that heavy intercessors will have a place for sure, but they won't be an auto take by any means. In some lists they won't really fit. In others they will be a good addition. Like others have said, strat support and points will be the deciding factors.

[Captain Idaho]

So far GW have done well in finding a place for most units so I'd be surprised if they don't sort it out. Though Reivers are still terrible.

[Ishagu]

Executor is the best choice for me.

My Intercessors and Infiltrators are adept at dealing with lesser infantry.

 

To me this is a unit that other Marines would struggle to shift, and on top would suffer from when it fired at them.

[Prot]

Executor might give us a slight edge if we maintain our move without penalty chapter tactic while in our tactical doctrine. 
 

I really wish they had out these in the first wave of releases. For models I don’t really want any of the opening wave for my UM. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I would like to run two squads of Heavy Intercessors (Executor bolt rifles and an Executor heavy bolter) in my Iron Hands Army, two squads of Infiltrators and two squads of Intercessors (auto bolt rifles), 5 Marines per squad... that’s six troops, all solid choices right now. I’m not sure though for my Ultramarines - I like it a little more spicy.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Black Blow Fly

[Prot]

I know I’ll cave and buy these for my ultras, but definitely not for my White Scars. 
 

I have two potentials here. The the Turret dude and a squad of Heavy Intercessors, or just a few turret dudes, as I know I will probably want the new tanks with my Ultras. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’d definitely give the heavy Intercessors a try but I think two five man squads is the way to go.

[Swordsman]

In my opinion they have great potential. The longer firing range and power, combined with the gravis resilience (T 5 and 3W are great for a obsec troop), if put in cover give us a very solid backfield unit to hold base objectives, while the rest of the army advance.

 

The bolted discipline combined with rapid fire HBR and the extra punch of the HB generate a great suppressing fire. (Maybe supported by a Wisdom of the ancient Relic dread with Gun and CCW for countercharge)

 

A solid squad of 10 will join the battlefield with the rank of my Ultras (maybe two in the future ).