Psychic Dreadnoughts for all?

[FlamingWalnut]

Wasn't sure if this should be here or with the Blood Angels, but this seemed...better.

So, the codex preview was, for me, a lot of obvious stuff, but whatever. Been waiting to kinda reboot my own Marines as I wait for this new book. But something stuck out to me that I wasn't expecting.

During the Crusade section, there is a requisition for a Dreadnought for a fallen character. LOVE the idea, but they mentioned, "You can only add a PSYKER DREADNOUGHT if the CHARACTER it is replacing is a PSYKER"

Umm...since Blood Angels are the only ones that have a Librarian Dreadnought (or ANY psychic Dreadnought, as far as I know) but this is in the generic codex section....does this mean generic Librarian Dreadnoughts?! Would be amazing if they were!

So, this is either:
Just a generic Crusade thing to COVER Blood Angels Librarian Dreadnoughts (but it has no BA restrictions...)

Or there is some kind of generic Librarian Dreadnought. 

As well, with it being a keyword...it might even be for ANY Dreadnought chasis? Perhaps an upgrade to make a regular Dreadnought a Psyker? Surely this would have been something they covered in a preview, it is good. But my goodness, I want a Leviathan Librarian Dreadnought. Would be amazing!

Thoughts? What do you think of this? 

[Dagoth Ur]

Honestly, I'd be a huge fan of making librarian dreads more available to other chapters - hell, expand the types of chassis for librarian dreads too. We know from the seventh Horus Heresy Blackbook that the matrizes and plans neccesary to manufacture librarian dreadnoughts were manufactured by the Thousand Sons under the help of the Blood Angels and then distributed to all legions. While most chose not to use them, these plans should still be around I reckon.

[TheNewman]

The snowflake chapters (BA, DA, SW, DW) getting the currently vanilla-exclusive units (Centurions, Ironclad Dreads) is highly likely. The vanilla chapters getting the snowflake-exclusive units is a lot less likely, that hasn't been how any of the supplements have worked so far.

 

I'm hopeful though, I'd love to get a Libby dread for my WS.

[War Angel]

Never made sense that only bloodangels could put their fallen librarians into dreadnaughts.

[The Unseen]

I find it more likely since that's clearly a narrative thing for the Crusade rules, which can and probably will be looser than matched play. I doubt it'll show up as a datasheet for matched play. But if your librarian gets crippled, being able to put him in a dread would be cool.

 

Fluff wise the limit to BA is that we have more psykers than *average* (save obviously the GK), they live a long time (so more chances to be horrifically crippled before old age), and we still have a lot of our own tech base, so its not that other chapters don't have them at all, they're just very very rare, whereas the BA have several at any given time.

5th Ed codex IIRC.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I wouldn't be surprised if it stays the same, with BA only having Librarian Dreadnoughts. Space Wolves have Wulfen Dreadnoughts, Blood Angels have Death Company Dreadnoughts, but both of those could have the implantee fall to the respective curses as they've "died". The Librarian Dreadnought is the only specific Dreadnought that you absolutely have to have had the criteria before implantation as well as after.

 

Plus, with GW being how they are, they're not opening up Librarian Dreadnoughts to everyone without making a generic model for them, instead of BA only.

[MegaVolt87]

Oh crazy, there is an actual BA libby dread from GW main. Every BA libby dread I have seen has been ones converted from custodes FW dreads or FW contemptors. Never seen the little boxnaught one lol. 

[UnkyHamHam]

I wouldn't be surprised if it stays the same, with BA only having Librarian Dreadnoughts. Space Wolves have Wulfen Dreadnoughts, Blood Angels have Death Company Dreadnoughts, but both of those could have the implantee fall to the respective curses as they've "died". The Librarian Dreadnought is the only specific Dreadnought that you absolutely have to have had the criteria before implantation as well as after.

 

Plus, with GW being how they are, they're not opening up Librarian Dreadnoughts to everyone without making a generic model for them, instead of BA only.

Storm Raven says hello. Still only comes with blood drops and sword book iconography options.

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

I wouldn't be surprised if it stays the same, with BA only having Librarian Dreadnoughts. Space Wolves have Wulfen Dreadnoughts, Blood Angels have Death Company Dreadnoughts, but both of those could have the implantee fall to the respective curses as they've "died". The Librarian Dreadnought is the only specific Dreadnought that you absolutely have to have had the criteria before implantation as well as after.

 

Plus, with GW being how they are, they're not opening up Librarian Dreadnoughts to everyone without making a generic model for them, instead of BA only.

Storm Raven says hello. Still only comes with blood drops and sword book iconography options.

 

 

And are either of those, blood drops or sword-through-book icons, moulded onto the actual model itself as integral parts, or are they just optional extras that can easily be left off, allowing it to be used as a generic model? Hint, it's the second.

 

Now, take a look at the Librarian Dreadnought model. It is included in a kit that has 3 sarcophagus options, each of which has Blood Angels iconography directly sculpted onto them. You can't leave off the BA bits of a Librarian Dreadnought, without buying both a Librarian Dreadnought and plain one, and using just the force-weapon arm of the Librarian Dreadnought on the standard one. You're now left over with your choice of a Dreadnought with a death mask and Blood Angel iconography, a dreadnought with just Blood Angel iconography, or a dreadnought with a skull head and both Death Company and Blood Angel iconography. 

[Marshal Reinhard]

Give me a chaplain redemptor instead

[Blindhamster]

Everyone should have access to librarian dreads imo. Never made sense only BA got them

[Mandragola]

Everyone should have access to librarian dreads imo. Never made sense only BA got them

I agree, but right now there's no model, no hint of one appearing and no librarian dread entry in the contents page for the codex - so far as I've heard.

 

I think this rule is just so that BA players in crusade can't upgrade an injured lieutenant to a Librarian Dreadnought. It's a rule preventing you from doing something, not allowing you to do something new. 

 

The rule is future-proofed to cover any potential future psychic dreadnought release. But right now it just covers the BA one and, as others have pointed out, that model is only useable as a BA dread.

[Blindhamster]

i imagine if we see a generic psyker dread, it'll be a redemptor chassis one

[Mandragola]

i imagine if we see a generic psyker dread, it'll be a redemptor chassis one

Probably, yes. Or else possibly something completely new and weird. 

 

Psychic dreadnoughts should be incredibly rare though. I think Blood Angels are supposed to have more Librarians than most chapters, so it makes sense for them to end up in Dreadnoughts from time to time. It would be very unlikely for that to happen in another chapter.

[Blindhamster]

 

i imagine if we see a generic psyker dread, it'll be a redemptor chassis one

Probably, yes. Or else possibly something completely new and weird. 

 

Psychic dreadnoughts should be incredibly rare though. I think Blood Angels are supposed to have more Librarians than most chapters, so it makes sense for them to end up in Dreadnoughts from time to time. It would be very unlikely for that to happen in another chapter.

 

yeah the lore is Blood Angels have a much higher than average number of Librarians, the entire chapter is predisposed toward divination too which doesn't always see the marine become a librarian (Corbulo is the best example of this, but in the books and lore, Dante also has visions and is far from the only one)

[WrathOfTheLion]

I could see there being a librarian dreadnought, but perhaps it won't be a separate datasheet, but a purchasable upgrade, sort of like the head Chaplain one.

 

They've toyed with adding upgrades into the game like that in 8E. Switching to a points system like they do for like Consul upgrades in HH would be easier to balance it in with.

Edited September 16, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Brother Casman]

Running the Blood Ravens, as I do, I'd love to have a librarian dreadnought! That said, with the new book I expect I'll build a little Blood Angels counts-as detachment of some sort and include a librarian dreadnought that way.

[chapter master 454]

Would like to see more of the "HQ" dreads come to fruition. Chaplain Dreadnought, Librarian Dreadnought AND a Techmarine Dreadnought would be awesome too. However I would hard cap those dreads by being elites and 1 per detachment, however BA would not have that limit on Librarian dreads, Iron Hands not limited on Techmarine dreads and Black Templars not limited on Chaplain dreads. Boom, you're welcome GW, wheres my cut?

 

Techmarine dreadnought with Full Dreadnought Servo Harness, 2 Heavy Servo Arms, a Heavy Torch Cutter and Rapid Plasma Welder (Heavy Flamer and Plasma Gun in effect).

 

To be honest, I would love to see the dreadnought range expanded properly and options restored and enabled such as Mortis Twin-Autocannons again. Heck, if I could I would give Redemptors a TON more toys (hull mounted Volkite or Plasma Blasters for example and likely twin-linked lastalon arm weapon, a Belacatus missile array for the other arm and so on).

[Dark Shepherd]

If they made/brought out a model though itd be a Redemptor and over the 10 wounds so easy to target

[Mandragola]

Running the Blood Ravens, as I do, I'd love to have a librarian dreadnought! That said, with the new book I expect I'll build a little Blood Angels counts-as detachment of some sort and include a librarian dreadnought that way.

I'm pretty sure nobody knows (officially) what chapter the Blood Ravens come from. Once the new book is out I think you could run them as BA successors, and gain access to Librarian Dreads. You'd also get access to Death Company if you wanted, which might be less fluff-appropriate.

 

Would like to see more of the "HQ" dreads come to fruition. Chaplain Dreadnought, Librarian Dreadnought AND a Techmarine Dreadnought would be awesome too. However I would hard cap those dreads by being elites and 1 per detachment, however BA would not have that limit on Librarian dreads, Iron Hands not limited on Techmarine dreads and Black Templars not limited on Chaplain dreads. Boom, you're welcome GW, wheres my cut?

 

Techmarine dreadnought with Full Dreadnought Servo Harness, 2 Heavy Servo Arms, a Heavy Torch Cutter and Rapid Plasma Welder (Heavy Flamer and Plasma Gun in effect).

 

To be honest, I would love to see the dreadnought range expanded properly and options restored and enabled such as Mortis Twin-Autocannons again. Heck, if I could I would give Redemptors a TON more toys (hull mounted Volkite or Plasma Blasters for example and likely twin-linked lastalon arm weapon, a Belacatus missile array for the other arm and so on).

For Techmarines maybe instead of a dreadnought you could have a rig based on the Invictor. 

 

Otherwise I'm not sure we really need other kinds of character dreads. My understanding of the fluff is that marines generally lose their rank when interred, with the notable exception of Iron Hands and their successors. Everyone who gets stuck in a dread is some sort of hero. Librarians are an exception because their psychic powers are still there.

[TheNewman]

...take a look at the Librarian Dreadnought model. It is included in a kit that has 3 sarcophagus options, each of which has Blood Angels iconography directly sculpted onto them. You can't leave off the BA bits of a Librarian Dreadnought, without buying both a Librarian Dreadnought and plain one, and using just the force-weapon arm of the Librarian Dreadnought on the standard one. You're now left over with your choice of a Dreadnought with a death mask and Blood Angel iconography, a dreadnought with just Blood Angel iconography, or a dreadnought with a skull head and both Death Company and Blood Angel iconography.

It's not like you can't trim the BA icon off of the libby sarcophagus and the back plate if it really bothers you that much, it's just plastic.

 

For that matter, if you don't trust your hobby skills that far there's nothing stopping you from just painting it in whatever scheme you did the rest of your army and not sweating it.

[Doghouse]

I'd say it was plausible that only Blood Angels had them before Cawl re-emerged. If I remember right they were a Blood Angels variant of the Furioso and before Cawl came along technology could take hundreds of years to be approved by the Adeptus Mechanicus and passed onto other chapters. I know the LIghtening Fighter took 600 years of testing and debate before it was used widestream.

I know that was the case with the Landraider Crusader originally and I think may have been a similar situation with the Space Wolves and the Razorback but by the time the tech priests had finished their investigations other chapters were already using it.

So there are examples specifically within the Blood Angels doing this stuff, I could be wrong but when the Stormraven came out wasn't it BA and GK only?

 

Now Cawl is on the scene though I expect it's possible he's come up with something and anyone can have one.

[Sete]

Wasting a good dreadnaught chassis on kindling. Shame.:D Edited September 16, 2020 by Sete

[War Angel]

A Techmarine dreadnaught should not exist. You’ve been mortally wounded, and only live by being put into a life support system that’s been hooked up to a walking tank. Your only ever woken up for combat. And now that it’s time to fight, hey on second thought, hang out back here and repair the vehicles.

 

Edit: autocorrect works for chaos.

Edited September 16, 2020 by War Angel

[MegaVolt87]

Seems a bit risky though to put a libby in a dread. If they ever got posessed, the demon now has an incredible physical host body, more potent than a termi libby or power armoured one.