So what is the end of Garro?

[Scribe]

I'd say Libertas is about on par with Sigismund's Black Sword. It's simply a relic blade of exceptional quality.

That cannot be used by the unworthy...

[Angel_of_Blood]

 

I'd say Libertas is about on par with Sigismund's Black Sword. It's simply a relic blade of exceptional quality.

That cannot be used by the unworthy...

 

 

Yeah the key thing here is that specific part of Saturnine. It's not just an absurdly good sword, it literally could not be picked up Falkus in terminator plate.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Angel_of_Blood

[Scribe]

I also want to know if this is another Dan invention.

 

Or has Garro had Excalibur all this time.

[Carach]

it is an invention. It's not been mentioned anywhere else at all to be like that. Literally none of the previous Garro material has his sword behave the way it did in Saturnine.

 

But then, Libertas wasn't the only sword suddenly gifted some power during the course of that novel. 

 

There were definitely some other liberties being taken with things, too  

Edited September 29, 2020 by Carach

[Scribe]

LOL.

[Scribe]

Whooo boy, do I ever disagree.

 

The fact it's another Abnett addition is just another thumb in my eye.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Well, no other evildoer tried mucking with Garro's sword in the stories before.

New this piece of information might be, but it's not necessarily wrong. We just get to hear it now for the first time.

 

One of the many reasons I like 40k is because it's full of historical cameos like this one. It'd be cool if Libertas really was Excalibur.

 

On the other hand, it might just have some Dark Age tech built into it that makes it seem magical. There was a space wolf character who modded his thunder hammer with a miniature teleport beacon, so it would always return to his hand when thrown, ala Mjölnir. The trick was repeated later in stories involving Vulcan.

 

Yet another explanation of weapons becoming increasingly exceptional is, as in many other things, faith, and how it feeds back into the object of said faith through the warp. Much like god-making, a godly weapon could grow from an otherwise mundane object that was used and venerated enough. As it gets more special, it's held in ever greater awe, which in turn makes it more special.

 

The HH story did, after all, start out with everyone firmly believing in the imperial truth, so such supernatural things rarely manifested. As the imperial truth broke down, so too did crazy stuff start happening at ever greater frequency.

 

And yes, they needed to put something in that story to keep it interesting. Still, good call, I'd say.

 

Yes, when the Imperial Truth broke down, faith started having an impact on the galaxy, but in ways that matched with the particular faiths and beliefs of those involved. Things didn't just start spontaneously taking on the properties of famous objects that 21st century observers would be familiar with.

 

It didn't really add anything, or make it more interesting. There was already enough going on in that fight, enough big names getting killed off, without Dan turning to the reader to go "hey, that awesome sword just got stuck... in a stone! Remind you of anything, hey? Remind you of anything? Excalibur, right?"

[mc warhammer]

imagine being poor dan abnett and getting beaten by the...invention stick? innovation stick? idk. some sort of stick on a regular basis. bad enough you get it for your own takes like wet-leopard-growls alongside stuff you didn't conceive of like the alpha legion twins.

 

it's really hard to pin stuff like this down without some sort of editorial insight. i think tom defalco was the first writer to feature the controversial character of ben reilly in the 90s spider-man books but it wasn't necessarily his idea to start the clone saga.

 

a quick google reveals theories on libertas being excalibur at least as far back as 2017. with jmswallow posting about it on tumblr and replying "i can't say..."

 

it's entirely possible that dan saw these and decided to run with it when he wrote "saturnine". it might also all be coincidence. it could also be possible that it's an idea that developed behind the scenes at BL between several authors over time. maybe it was swallow's idea from day one.

 

that being said, i'm not overly fond of it myself.

Edited September 29, 2020 by mc warhammer

[Scribe]

Hey, it is what it is. I swear to Khorne above that he does it more than anyone else. It's just whatever at this point. If someone else came up with the idea and he just got around to being the confirmation, well, good on him.

 

EDIT: Honestly, I'm too old to be the target market for this so REALLY, hopefully someone enjoys Excalibur cleaving down elite Terminators.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Scribe

[Carach]

Well, no other evildoer tried mucking with Garro's sword in the stories before.

New this piece of information might be, but it's not necessarily wrong. We just get to hear it now for the first time.

 

One of the many reasons I like 40k is because it's full of historical cameos like this one. It'd be cool if Libertas really was Excalibur.

 

On the other hand, it might just have some Dark Age tech built into it that makes it seem magical. There was a space wolf character who modded his thunder hammer with a miniature teleport beacon, so it would always return to his hand when thrown, ala Mjölnir. The trick was repeated later in stories involving Vulcan.

 

Yet another explanation of weapons becoming increasingly exceptional is, as in many other things, faith, and how it feeds back into the object of said faith through the warp. Much like god-making, a godly weapon could grow from an otherwise mundane object that was used and venerated enough. As it gets more special, it's held in ever greater awe, which in turn makes it more special.

 

The HH story did, after all, start out with everyone firmly believing in the imperial truth, so such supernatural things rarely manifested. As the imperial truth broke down, so too did crazy stuff start happening at ever greater frequency.

 

And yes, they needed to put something in that story to keep it interesting. Still, good call, I'd say.

 

 

He has fought countless baddies between his fleeing of a massacre and the siege. There has been dozens of audiobooks, short stories and inclusions in full-length novels of him fighting enemies. None of which has made mention of this magical sword. 

 

Until now. 

 

I like Dan's work generally, but Saturnine certainly did not live up to the hype some people were putting out there in this forum. I don't trust the judgement of many here as it is and this one further reinforced why. 

 

Saturnine as a whole though isn't what this thread is about so I will stick purely to the bits relating to Garro on this one; this completely out of the blue feature of the weapon we have seen used and specifically mentioned countless times, brought absolutely nothing to the table except to create some kind of plot armour as to the reason why some enemies double the size can die like chaff.

 

I would understand it if it was mentioned that Garro reflects on it after the adrenaline rush of the fight to be like "golly gee what just happened?", but literally nothing is even stated. It's just standard apparently. Not even the traitors are batting an eye other than Abaddon acknowledging that this sword is a bit better than average.

 

Most of the scenes in Saturnine disappointed me, and this one in particular just had me being like "really? what is the point of this?"

 

I love the Garro stuff, and I don't think he needed some utterly random embellishment added to his character...   you're also at this point in the largest siege in the universe, during what should of been a highly tense scene (big gambit about to see whether it pays off for either side? on earth can happen? is it a double bluff. is dorn making a mistake? is abaddon about to be humbled and learn something for his future role as a warmaster? rack up the fricken tension!!) involving multiple 'heavy' characters from both sides. You shouldn't *need* to put some odd thing like this into the story to "keep it interesting"

Edited September 30, 2020 by Carach

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

imagine being poor dan abnett and getting beaten by the...invention stick? innovation stick? idk. some sort of stick on a regular basis. bad enough you get it for your own takes like wet-leopard-growls alongside stuff you didn't conceive of like the alpha legion twins.

 

it's really hard to pin stuff like this down without some sort of editorial insight. i think tom defalco was the first writer to feature the controversial character of ben reilly in the 90s spider-man books but it wasn't necessarily his idea to start the clone saga.

 

a quick google reveals theories on libertas being excalibur at least as far back as 2017. with jmswallow posting about it on tumblr and replying "i can't say..."

 

it's entirely possible that dan saw these and decided to run with it when he wrote "saturnine". it might also all be coincidence. it could also be possible that it's an idea that developed behind the scenes at BL between several authors over time. maybe it was swallow's idea from day one.

 

that being said, i'm not overly fond of it myself.

 

 

 

Here i was about to try an rationalise this whole thing when this was on the net since 2017..

 

From screaming at the void...  

 

Libertas as Excalibur

Libertas, Garro’s super-shiny sword that lowkey definitely will become the Titansword, is old as balls. It, or parts of it, predate Old Night (c.M25), the ‘unknowable science’ capable of ‘cancelling out’ the unreal anti-life of a daemon.

Garro, born in Albia, feels a special connection with the blade… could it be because it’s Excalibur, the legendary sword of Britain (aka Albion)?

It has Libertas written on the blade, which one could simply ignore completely as blades can be modfied, but where’s the fun in that. In fact, it says Libertas Rex on the cover to Garro:

 

Rex being Latin for king… as in King Arthur. The Latinised name for Excalibur? Caliburnus (from chalybs - ‘steel’). Caliburnus Rex. The King’s Sword.

Now imagine the Captain of the 7th Great Company of the XIVth Legiones Astartes is presented with a sword to go along with his new honorific ‘Battle-Captain’ after a battle in the Unification Wars. Faded by the millennia, the remaining letters read LIB R  S REX. With fragments between it could be liberus, perhaps liberas.

He calls it LIBERTAS.

/this.

 

I went back and re read the Libertas parts of Flight of the Eisenstein.  The very beginning of the book is a huge bread crumb.  This Excalibur angle is not new.  If you didn't see it coming, that doesn't mean it wasn't  there.  

 

If Garro has Excalibur, who has the Holy Grail?  Golden Fleece ect?

Edited September 30, 2020 by Lord Lorne Walkier

[Scribe]

Oh, it certainly doesnt mean it wasnt there, and it seems I cannot put this at the feet of Abnett, so fair play.

 

The whole point of this thread was that I have not been keeping up on this sub plot at all, and wanted to see what it meant to the story. :D

[mc warhammer]

 

imagine being poor dan abnett and getting beaten by the...invention stick? innovation stick? idk. some sort of stick on a regular basis. bad enough you get it for your own takes like wet-leopard-growls alongside stuff you didn't conceive of like the alpha legion twins.

 

it's really hard to pin stuff like this down without some sort of editorial insight. i think tom defalco was the first writer to feature the controversial character of ben reilly in the 90s spider-man books but it wasn't necessarily his idea to start the clone saga.

 

a quick google reveals theories on libertas being excalibur at least as far back as 2017. with jmswallow posting about it on tumblr and replying "i can't say..."

 

it's entirely possible that dan saw these and decided to run with it when he wrote "saturnine". it might also all be coincidence. it could also be possible that it's an idea that developed behind the scenes at BL between several authors over time. maybe it was swallow's idea from day one.

 

that being said, i'm not overly fond of it myself.

 

 

 

Here i was about to try an rationalise this whole thing when this was on the net since 2017..

 

From screaming at the void...  

 

Libertas as Excalibur

Libertas, Garro’s super-shiny sword that lowkey definitely will become the Titansword, is old as balls. It, or parts of it, predate Old Night (c.M25), the ‘unknowable science’ capable of ‘cancelling out’ the unreal anti-life of a daemon.

Garro, born in Albia, feels a special connection with the blade… could it be because it’s Excalibur, the legendary sword of Britain (aka Albion)?

It has Libertas written on the blade, which one could simply ignore completely as blades can be modfied, but where’s the fun in that. In fact, it says Libertas Rex on the cover to Garro:

 

Rex being Latin for king… as in King Arthur. The Latinised name for Excalibur? Caliburnus (from chalybs - ‘steel’). Caliburnus Rex. The King’s Sword.

Now imagine the Captain of the 7th Great Company of the XIVth Legiones Astartes is presented with a sword to go along with his new honorific ‘Battle-Captain’ after a battle in the Unification Wars. Faded by the millennia, the remaining letters read LIB R  S REX. With fragments between it could be liberus, perhaps liberas.

He calls it LIBERTAS.

/this.

 

I went back and re read the Libertas parts of Flight of the Eisenstein.  The very beginning of the book is a huge bread crumb.  This Excalibur angle is not new.  If you didn't see it coming, that doesn't mean it wasn't  there.  

 

If Garro has Excalibur, who has the Holy Grail?  Golden Fleece ect?

 

 

additionally, for anyone who is interested in the whole excalibur angle here's swallow's comment on it back in 2017:

 

https://jmswallow.tumblr.com/post/156176332397/is-libertas-excalibur-garro-is-from-britain

 

that being said, whoever's angle it is, if carach's point is that displaying excaliburish powers in saturnine doesn't add much to the story overall, i can agree with that. but. i do feel that part of that book's job was also setting up things to pay off for future entries into the series, so another author might be following that up?

[Bobss]

Dan invention.

 

Genuinely love your posts mate. Please never stop posting

[Scribe]

LOL, I'm just saying!

[Roomsky]

Nah, you've got it all wrong. It's not that Kibre couldn't pick up Excalibur. He just really didn't want to.

 

[Angel_of_Blood]

Also the Black Book for Garro states that Libertas was from before even the dark age of technology I believe, from the old times. So again, whilst not saying Excalibur, not entirely new.