9th Ed Chapter Tactic Change

[solarisqc]

Primaris Chaplin on bike master of Sanctity with +2 to charge and Stoic Prosecution.  Drop in Some Deathwing for a 4 inch charge and +1 to hit. no extra Cmd points needed.

Give him the Angel's Ambit for +3'' aura. and choose 2 9'' aura litany

 

-Litany of faith, 5++ vs mortal wound

-Canticle of Hate, +2 charge and 6'' pile-in/consolidate

-Stoic prosecution.

 

Give him Fury of the lion, or Master of manoeuvre Warlord trait and you have another 9'' aura.

 

One of the strongest buffing character in 40k, big base, fast and up to 4 9'' aura (leadership 9, warlord trait and 2 active litany).

 

Icing on the cake, you can add wing on his helm to fit the Angel's Ambit description!

[Angel of Solitude]

 

 

It's an interesting change. 

 

It makes it more risky to use plasma, as we won't be able to re-roll 1's, and plasma causes mortal wounds on an unmodified 1. However, it would make Dark Angels melee units quite brutal at defending objectives, as we'd get +1 to hit in the fight phase. Throw a Judiciar in there, and you've got an interesting anti-charge deterrent. 

Plasma are safer now compared to old editions cause the overheat is not always present but only if you supercharge the weapon

We have the stratagem that boosts our plasma weapons damage so we don't really need to supercharge them unless we are facing a really though unit

 

Are you always supercharging the plasma weapons riskying to lose models? I like better the more realiable standard profile tbh

 

The new Chapter tactic is really tasty cause it's useful in melee too and maked DA a overall better army 

 

I am almost always overcharging my plasma.

 

 

In the last few games I've played, whether I overcharge or not is situational. 

 

For example, last week I was up against a Tempestus Scions list, with 5 Taurox Primes and 2 Valkyries. Turn 1, I get my Black Knights squad within range of one Taurox. Overcharging makes no difference to my wound roll, I've got 10 wounds to knock off so in this case I just play WftDA to give 2 damage. Given their role in securing an objective, and no re-roll support, I'm not prepared to risk losing one of my bikes.

 

Turn 2, and I deepstrike some Plasma Inceptors within range of a Chaplain with an active Recitation of Focus aura. I shoot at the Valkyrie, and this time I'm certainly going to overcharge to both improve my wound roll, and to dish out extra damage. Total safe in this situation. My other Plasma Inceptors squad deepstrike into the enemy deployment zone, and fire into a large squad of Scions. Again, overcharging won't change my wound roll, I'm on max shots thanks to the Blast weapon rule, and I don't need the extra damage from WftDA.

 

Before the existence of Eradicators, plasma was more of an anti-tank weapon for me, and so re-rolls were important. Yes, I do have a minimal-cost jump Master built whose only purpose is to provide re-rolls to a squad of Inceptors ;)

[Master Sheol]

 

 

 

 

It's an interesting change.

 

It makes it more risky to use plasma, as we won't be able to re-roll 1's, and plasma causes mortal wounds on an unmodified 1. However, it would make Dark Angels melee units quite brutal at defending objectives, as we'd get +1 to hit in the fight phase. Throw a Judiciar in there, and you've got an interesting anti-charge deterrent.

Plasma are safer now compared to old editions cause the overheat is not always present but only if you supercharge the weapon

We have the stratagem that boosts our plasma weapons damage so we don't really need to supercharge them unless we are facing a really though unit

 

Are you always supercharging the plasma weapons riskying to lose models? I like better the more realiable standard profile tbh

 

The new Chapter tactic is really tasty cause it's useful in melee too and maked DA a overall better army

I am almost always overcharging my plasma.

Plasma is a versatile weapon that let You choose

Always overcharging is not wise from a tactical point of view

The first legion is well known for the Superior tactics so always overcharging is not what a DAwpuld do but they will take the risk only if the situation needs it

[G8Keeper]

 

I am almost always overcharging my plasma.

 

 

 

You do the Emperor's work brother.

[Karhedron]

 

I am almost always overcharging my plasma.

You do the Emperor's work brother.

 

Unfortunately, 1s do the enemy's work for them.

[Raychu]

I am not sure it's the best place for a rumor /question about our next codex, but here I go.

 

on Auspex tactics video about the DA, the author says that the DA will have access to the thundercanons.

so shooting at 2+ it'll be quite powerful.

 

I am not totally convinced about the DA getting all those vanilla toys. but I supposed we'll get an idea with the Blood Angels codex.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think he's erroneously concluding that.

 

It is possible we will, but there will be a list of things we cannot take, and the TFC may or may not be on that list.

[Karhedron]

I agree. Simply giving the divergent Chapters access to everything would make them Marines+1 and could lead to broken combos.

 

As a Space Wolf Player, I would love to be able to use a Stormraven Gunship as a party bus for Bjorn the Fell-Handed but it might be a bit strong. We shall have to wait and see.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I am quite interested to see what ends up going where. Do they end up sticking veterans into the Deathwing, to fill it out to play the same way as the 30k one might? Not certain, but there could end up being some massive changes I think. With the bladeguard, it seems to me like they're trying to align those two, so we'll see what happens.

[Berzul]

 

 

I am almost always overcharging my plasma.

You do the Emperor's work brother.

Unfortunately, 1s do the enemy's work for them.

Then I guess I'll see you in hell!! HYAAA!!!

 

<Han Solo's out of the thread, while firing overcharged shots everywhere>

Edited September 30, 2020 by Berzul

[Master Sheol]

I am not sure it's the best place for a rumor /question about our next codex, but here I go.

 

on Auspex tactics video about the DA, the author says that the DA will have access to the thundercanons.

so shooting at 2+ it'll be quite powerful.

 

I am not totally convinced about the DA getting all those vanilla toys. but I supposed we'll get an idea with the Blood Angels codex.

According to Codex leaks DA SW DW don't have access to all C:SM units so we must wait for the Codex tp have a full list of what we Can have and what we cannot

[Aeri]

Is there a confirmation that plasma gets hot only natural rolls of 1?

Otherwise the +1 to hit might be a bigger deal than it seems at first.

[WrathOfTheLion]

From what I have seen, that is to be the new gets hot mechanic. I can't remember if they said so explicitly in the article about weapons changes. We'll see when the codex is released soon.

Natural 1 makes sense. Being able to modify the chance your plasma weapons explode based on to hit modifiers was a dumb mechanic.

 

To me, the 8E way was clearly a mistake made in the haste design of the rules for it. We should expect that it is rectified to work as intended, even if that means we can't game it as easily.

 

I personally really welcome the change to chapter tactics. I am much more interested in capturing the knight aesthetic of the Dark Angels, so this provides more well rounded increases that will allow for that. In general it is better, as now it is much less situational and more evenly applies across the army, as the new Chaplain on bike can affect Ravenwing units, the buffs to melee will affect Deathwing units much more, etc. It now doesn't just duplicate auras, but can stack, so a character can always give rerolls of 1 when necessary as well, allowing that to stack instead of negate.

Edited October 1, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Angel of Solitude]

From what I have seen, that is to be the new gets hot mechanic. I can't remember if they said so explicitly in the article about weapons changes. We'll see when the codex is released soon.

 

Natural 1 makes sense. Being able to modify the chance your plasma weapons explode based on to hit modifiers was a dumb mechanic.

 

 

The article you reference didn't actually mention plasma. But given that the article pretty much confirmed that weapons changes we'd seen in Indomitus were being rolled out to the rest of the army, I think we can safely conclude the same is true for Plasma.

 

What I would love to see is an update to WftDA so that it gives +1S and +1D - effectively allowing us to overcharge with no penalty, and then give us the opportunity to "super" charge with the normal penalty. 

[shabbadoo]

I quite like the change in our Chapter Tactics. Overall it is a bit more useful, as we get to sue it for shooting an melee, though in a static role. I am curious what the Deathwing and Ravenwing rules will be. Perhaps we'll see in the "Get you by until 2021" update.

[G8Keeper]

I quite like the change in our Chapter Tactics. Overall it is a bit more useful, as we get to sue it for shooting an melee, though in a static role. I am curious what the Deathwing and Ravenwing rules will be. Perhaps we'll see in the "Get you by until 2021" update.

 

I believe GW said the codex chapters (BA, SW, DA & DW) would get gets you by FAQ's at codex marines release, although I could have been dreaming.

 

If Deathwing and Ravenwing get some mechanic to get the Chapter Tactic when stationary or on the charge, we will be laughing.

Edited October 1, 2020 by G8Keeper

[WrathOfTheLion]

They did say there would be an FAQ for us and SW, BA and DW.

[UtariOnzo]

Plasma is definitely exploding on natural ones for overheating

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/13/new-boxes-new-rules-new-codexes/

 

Supercharged plasma weaponry will soon only ever overheat on an unmodified roll of a 1, so attempting to shoot fleet-winged Aircraft no longer carries a death sentence.

Just to clear up some confusion a few posts back.

 

Anyway, back to the OP, the +1 to attack rolls help our melee the turn after charging, or when receiving a charge, since it requires the unit to not have moved. This is great for intercessors/heavy intercessors sitting on an objective, but some of the comment regarding this making deathwing better is a little premature. It’ll be handy for regular DW squads dropping in and staying in place to fire off a DW assault stratagem with storm bolters for sure, but on knights or a TH/SS squad that really want to charge as soon as they land it’s less stellar, unless they’re in a bit of a bogged down fight or you’re intending to just drop them down at an important point and goad the opponent into charging them in their turn.

 

Overall it feels like it benefits a static gunline greenwing, or shooty deathwing, more than our current go to heavy lifters (mobile ravenwing knights and charging deathwing knight/TT SS termies)

Edited October 1, 2020 by UtariOnzo

[aura_enchanted]

deathwing champions + chapter champions buffs=

 

maximum firstborn slaying carnage

 

+1 attack, -1 to hit, reroll to wound

 

mother of the lion thats gonna butcher some people

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by aura_enchanted

[Master Sheol]

deathwing champions + chapter champions buffs=

 

maximum firstborn slaying carnage

 

+1 attack, -1 to hit, reroll to wound

 

mother of the lion thats gonna butcher some people

 

The article talks about a Company Champion not of the DW/RW Champions

We must wait and see i guess

[Berzul]

Yeah, we need to wait and see if the RW and DW champions can be upgraded this way

[aura_enchanted]

 

deathwing champions + chapter champions buffs=

 

maximum firstborn slaying carnage

 

+1 attack, -1 to hit, reroll to wound

 

mother of the lion thats gonna butcher some people

 

The article talks about a Company Champion not of the DW/RW Champions

We must wait and see i guess

 

so your saying.. the ravenwing and deathwing arent our 1st and 2nd companies now

[WrathOfTheLion]

We have yet to see how these apply to things like that, or Wolf Priests for SW, or Interrogator-Chaplains.

 

Definitely need to wait and see how all this ends up working.

 

Yes, they are the company champions of the 1st and 2nd company. But speaking rhetorical on that means nothing about how they construct mechanics.

 

They are using the company champion as the base datasheet for the chapter champion. The chapter champion would be a different individual than the Deathwing champion, there is something in mind they are trying to let you create.

Edited October 2, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[L30n1d4s]

You know what will be amazing? A pair of DA Whirlwind Scorpius, protected by a squad of Bladeguard and a Judicar... without moving, everyone is shooting at BS2+ and the Bladeguard are attacking at WS2+ and fighting first (even when charged, thanks to the Judiciar)... makes for a pretty ridiculous backline firebase and objective holder for the rest of the army to maneuver around.

[Angel of Solitude]

You know what will be amazing? A pair of DA Whirlwind Scorpius, protected by a squad of Bladeguard and a Judicar... without moving, everyone is shooting at BS2+ and the Bladeguard are attacking at WS2+ and fighting first (even when charged, thanks to the Judiciar)... makes for a pretty ridiculous backline firebase and objective holder for the rest of the army to maneuver around.

 

That probably would be amazing...but also impractical! Points costs alone, that's a cool 660 points you're investing and the minute your opponent puts a single ObSec troop on your objective, then you're stuffed. Also, the Bladeguard and Judiciar are good at deterring melee threats, but not shooting threats - and especially those that can deploy from deepstrike.

 

Finally, there are probably other better alternatives to do the same job. Looking at the weapon profile of the Scorpius, using WftDA on a squad of 3xPlasma Inceptors gives you a better shooting output, better flexibility on target choice and 1st turn protection by keeping them in reserves. They can also carry out actions for your secondary objectives, and all this for 85 fewer points...

 

Once the codex comes out, I'm looking forward to going through all the different combinations that are now available to us :D