New article reveals our chapter tactic

[TiguriusX]

As someone who enjoys attending tournaments I 100% prefer the new method.

 

Our rules will be updated ASAP when vanilla marines change instead of a year or more later.

[VIth]

The HI for all units is frankly worthless. Anyone with a brain is going to just charge enough of your units to keep you from HI and even if they don't anything that HI can be targeted by a charging unit. So there's no real benefit to it.

This is an epically bad take. This rule is amazing, and I honestly have no idea how you can think otherwise. Do you not know how HI works? You can engage in combat in your opponent’s turn with any unit (?) in our codex. Even if it remains three inches, guess how close to an objective you have to be? That’s right: three inches. Our opponents literally can’t move into range of an objective we control without our unit heroically intervening into them. Combine this with Armor of Russ and the Justicar ability and you’re really talking.

 

Again, I’d love to have someone lay out for me how they think this is bad.

[VIth]

I'm sorry to interrupt this discussion and hope, that this is the right place to ask a question but … I don't understand what Games Workshop is doing with the Space Marines Codex and the Space Wolves Codex. The Fact, that the Space Wolves Book is now called Supplement and the Codex Space Marines contains the Space Wolves Chapter Tactics looks like we need both of those books (as soon as they are published). Is anything know about this structural change for sure right now, and I just missed it?

It’s a non-issue to me. That’s how the 3rd edition codex was and I have no issue with SW codex that references the SM codex.

[Dark Shepherd]

Lore wise primaris only successor chapters be it build your own or otherwise would be a tonne of fun if somewhat divisive in some quarters

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I think you could include a few packs of firstborn.It wouldn't shock me if the space wolves sent out some packs to monitor/guide some of them (I mean they know what happened with the wolf brothers).

 

Another possibility would be Robbie G finding a lost great company during his crusade and telling them that they're responsible for training up a new chapter.

 

That said I do think you would want to go light on firstborn units, and most would be veterans.

[Gherrick]

 

The HI for all units is frankly worthless. Anyone with a brain is going to just charge enough of your units to keep you from HI and even if they don't anything that HI can be targeted by a charging unit. So there's no real benefit to it.

This is an epically bad take. This rule is amazing, and I honestly have no idea how you can think otherwise. Do you not know how HI works? You can engage in combat in your opponent’s turn with any unit (?) in our codex. Even if it remains three inches, guess how close to an objective you have to be? That’s right: three inches. Our opponents literally can’t move into range of an objective we control without our unit heroically intervening into them. Combine this with Armor of Russ and the Justicar ability and you’re really talking.

 

Again, I’d love to have someone lay out for me how they think this is bad.

I 100% agree. People might not have noticed that under 9E rules, combat starts with eligible units of the opponent, not the active player. Granted, in most cases, the opponent will not have any eligible units, so it can be easily overlooked. This is where things like Armor of Russ and HI come in: it makes those units eligible to act BEFORE the active player can...charging a unit of ours that has another unit nearby means that entire other unit could HI and act BEFORE the charging unit...let that sink in.

[PeteySödes]

 

The HI for all units is frankly worthless. Anyone with a brain is going to just charge enough of your units to keep you from HI and even if they don't anything that HI can be targeted by a charging unit. So there's no real benefit to it.

This is an epically bad take. This rule is amazing, and I honestly have no idea how you can think otherwise. Do you not know how HI works? You can engage in combat in your opponent’s turn with any unit (?) in our codex. Even if it remains three inches, guess how close to an objective you have to be? That’s right: three inches. Our opponents literally can’t move into range of an objective we control without our unit heroically intervening into them. Combine this with Armor of Russ and the Justicar ability and you’re really talking.

 

Again, I’d love to have someone lay out for me how they think this is bad.

 

 

I'd encourage you to be a bit more generous with our own wolf brothers here in the Fang but yes. Theres a reason half of our WIP threads are working on Judicars :D.

[Guest Triszin]

Cause a judicar is like a lone wolf!

[Wispy]

cause they are the Emperor's Executioner's Executioners!

Edited September 29, 2020 by Wispy

[Guest]

cause they are the Emperor's Executioner's Executioners!

Except they aren't executioner's? Also wouldn't that mean that they are killing space Wolves?

[FabulousRex]

 

cause they are the Emperor's Executioner's Executioners!

Except they aren't executioner's? Also wouldn't that mean that they are killing space Wolves?

Why not? Space wolves aren't immune to falling to Chaos. Who would you rather take care of a fallen Wolf, one of your own pack who saw you train and grow up, or some random Dark Angel or another purging our own? :)

[WrathOfTheLion]

Need to read book 7 Inferno 
 

SW pre-Russ needed lots of disciplining, so fits right in, in a way.

[Wispy]

 

cause they are the Emperor's Executioner's Executioners!

Except they aren't executioner's? Also wouldn't that mean that they are killing space Wolves?

 

english is a tongue fraught with peril, i know. them being the the emperor's executioners (which is pretty well canonized at this point) can also mean they are executing the emperor!

 

anyways the Judicar has an executioners sword, so he's pretty clearly an executioner in my book, and the space wolves are the emperor's executioners, so he's the emperor's executioner's executioner.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Wispy

[Bulwyf]

 

The HI for all units is frankly worthless. Anyone with a brain is going to just charge enough of your units to keep you from HI and even if they don't anything that HI can be targeted by a charging unit. So there's no real benefit to it.

This is an epically bad take. This rule is amazing, and I honestly have no idea how you can think otherwise. Do you not know how HI works? You can engage in combat in your opponent’s turn with any unit (?) in our codex. Even if it remains three inches, guess how close to an objective you have to be? That’s right: three inches. Our opponents literally can’t move into range of an objective we control without our unit heroically intervening into them. Combine this with Armor of Russ and the Justicar ability and you’re really talking.

 

Again, I’d love to have someone lay out for me how they think this is bad.

 

 

There's no need to be insulting.

 

This rule is far from "amazing". I have played this game since Rogue Trader. I know how HI works. Guess what? This isn't 8th edition any more. You HI with something your opponent can now attack it first before it gets to attack. You aren't free from attacks like you were in 8th. If HI remained the same as it was in 8th then YES I would agree this rule is "amazing".

 

But this isn't 8th. The use of Armor of Russ and  a potential Justicar makes this situational at most. That's all it is. A situational thing that may benefit you IF you get to attack first. This isn't some army wide buff that lets all SW units attack first in the opponent's charge phase. Do *you* know HI works? If you are carrying one relic within range and/or one model in range that you pay points for then yes this could be of use. Situational at best, ignored the majority of the time.

 

It actually reminds me of my Night Lords army and their laughable morale gimmick as a special rule. It is almost never goes off and with the morale changes for 9th it makes their rule even more worthless than it was before. If HI let you get free attacks like it did in 8th I would be right there with you in being happy for this rule. But this isn't 8th so...

[FabulousRex]

What's with the salt?

 

Completely ignoring a charging units attacks isn't what we were talking about. That was at the forefront of my mind on this topic.

 

VIth, Gherrick and I are talking about free movement and more attacks in assault. You don't see those advantages? Play vanilla SM and get 6" HI as a successor.

[Bulwyf]

What's with the salt?

 

Completely ignoring a charging units attacks isn't what we were talking about. That was at the forefront of my mind on this topic.

 

VIth, Gherrick and I are talking about free movement and more attacks in assault. You don't see those advantages? Play vanilla SM and get 6" HI as a successor.

 

I'm saying this is so situational against someone that knows what they are doing that it isn't as great as some of you think it is. I never said it didn't have some advantages. If you can position your units with armor of russ or the Justiciar correctly it may benefit you at an objective in a game. My problem is that when you are given something that is situational at best as an army wide rule it isn't really as good as you think it is.

 

As I said in the example I used this reminds me of playing Night Lords. You have this supposed cool gimmick you want to use and yet you never actually get to use it or when you do it is so situational compared to other armies that it leaves a bad taste in one's mouth.

 

I also thought this rule was replacing our exploding sixes which apparently it is not. As I said in a previous post it mollifies my opinion slightly on this rule but I don't see it as this super duper amazing end all be all that some posters here are proclaiming it to be. 

 

Somewhere between my skepticism and other's unbridled enthusiasm is where the rule will probably land.

[FabulousRex]

Fair enough, I am trying to make the best of this change myself. I think it's a very nuanced change, and it'll probably take awhile to sort out.

 

The situational nature of army wide HI is mostly when your forces get charged, not an ideal scenario. However, it is at least very fluffy for us while having some interesting play -if- you make it work for you. That admittedly isn't easy, but I think its worth a deep dive to find as many applications as possible, given that's what we got now.

[Shas Oh Dear]

I like the HI for everyone. Biggest thing for me is the ability to just shut down charge shenanigans. If a unit gets charged and the enemy ends an inch away (which any player worth their salt will do) in order to eek out some free movement or tag other targets, you just Hi the unit that got charged so they're base to base. No more repositioning for the opponent.

[Dark Shepherd]

Theres further fights first shenanigans in terms of relics and warlord traits we can do too. Throw in 3 of them, 2 Judicars, and an Armour of Russ, then nobody will want to get near us

 

Taking over your opponents charge fights is the new Reiver leadership stack/Thunderwolf Cavalry attack theorem

[lonewolf81]

I like the HI for everyone. Biggest thing for me is the ability to just shut down charge shenanigans. If a unit gets charged and the enemy ends an inch away (which any player worth their salt will do) in order to eek out some free movement or tag other targets, you just Hi the unit that got charged so they're base to base. No more repositioning for the opponent.

 

The units that are eligible for HI are the ones that are not within engagement range so this  ^  cant be done 

 

The whole army HI thing is fluffy (counter attack as a wolf pack when a pack member gets charged).

 

The thing that makes it "bad" is the 3 intches which is easy to avoid. Also they never specified in the rules what happens with HI and fly, which is crucial for the wolves.

 

Can you ignore models on the way or not... if you cant then HI becomes a lot worse

Edited September 30, 2020 by lonewolf81

[The Saint Ragnar]

HI is a move which fly states when a model moves or charges they can ignore models. At least that is how I would read it, maybe we will see an FAQ to clarify.

 

As far as the fighting first things and HI in general. Yes, any player keyed in to the game can avoid a HI if they want to. That HI isn't where the power of our rule comes in. The power comes form an army wide ability to force your opponent back for free by doing nothing but being there.

 

By simply existing on the battlefield, you change the way they move and fight which can win you a game if you are yourself a smart opponent. Given that all missions are objective games now you can shut down your opponents ability to take objectives from you without charging into your lines. If they decide not to charge you then they get hit by HI and you get to fight first because it is their turn.

 

Again this won't make us OP please nerf but that is great as a few months in we won't get reduced in capacity or ability. I don't see this as absolute trash as some people are want to place it but it's not the golden rule to end all rules. It ends somewhere in the middle and makes us competitive in a smart way.

 

At the end of the day we are Space Marines which means if you don't want to think and just run forward and smash stuff you can. But if you want to put a little more thought behind unit movement and placement I think we will win out more than not.

 

Edit: Spelling errors that made some words cuss words

Edited September 30, 2020 by The Saint Ragnar

[Gherrick]

This rule is far from "amazing". I have played this game since Rogue Trader. I know how HI works. Guess what? This isn't 8th edition any more. You HI with something your opponent can now attack it first before it gets to attack. You aren't free from attacks like you were in 8th. If HI remained the same as it was in 8th then YES I would agree this rule is "amazing".

The bolded part is incorrect. The Fight phase starts with eligible units of the non-active player, so one of your HI unit(s) actually do attack before the active player can do anything. Here's the exact wording from the 9e pdf (added bold for clarity):

 

Starting with the player whose turn is not taking place, the players must alternate selecting an eligible unit from their army and fighting with it (see below). An eligible unit is one that is within Engagement Range of an enemy unit and/or made a charge move in the same turn. If neither player has any eligible units to fight with, the Fight phase ends.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Gherrick

[Dark Shepherd]

Charging units go first before all others

 

So HIing to fight first only works on units that were just standing there

 

Though with fight first traits/relics etc you can game that system whereby your opponent charges with 5 or 6 units but only one gets to attack before we do

 

One 9th change that helps this is the end to declaring charges on everything in range so slightly more opportunities for non characters to possibly HI

Edited September 30, 2020 by Dark Shepherd

[Iain_Stormeyes]

 

The HI for all units is frankly worthless. Anyone with a brain is going to just charge enough of your units to keep you from HI and even if they don't anything that HI can be targeted by a charging unit. So there's no real benefit to it.

This is an epically bad take. This rule is amazing, and I honestly have no idea how you can think otherwise. Do you not know how HI works? You can engage in combat in your opponent’s turn with any unit (?) in our codex. Even if it remains three inches, guess how close to an objective you have to be? That’s right: three inches. Our opponents literally can’t move into range of an objective we control without our unit heroically intervening into them. Combine this with Armor of Russ and the Justicar ability and you’re really talking.

 

Again, I’d love to have someone lay out for me how they think this is bad.

 

 

Any competent opponent will just charge you to hit first or put dedicated shooting into the unit on the objective.  Its an ability that is only good against bad players.  So if you only play casual or beerhammer games, have fun.  I don't expect this to come up or be a factor at tournament games like the old character intervention was, so the new one is useless to me and can be thrown in the trash.

[Bulwyf]

 

This rule is far from "amazing". I have played this game since Rogue Trader. I know how HI works. Guess what? This isn't 8th edition any more. You HI with something your opponent can now attack it first before it gets to attack. You aren't free from attacks like you were in 8th. If HI remained the same as it was in 8th then YES I would agree this rule is "amazing".

The bolded part is incorrect. The Fight phase starts with eligible units of the non-active player, so one of your HI unit(s) actually do attack before the active player can do anything. Here's the exact wording from the 9e pdf (added bold for clarity):

 

Starting with the player whose turn is not taking place, the players must alternate selecting an eligible unit from their army and fighting with it (see below). An eligible unit is one that is within Engagement Range of an enemy unit and/or made a charge move in the same turn. If neither player has any eligible units to fight with, the Fight phase ends.

 

 

I was talking about the charge phase and I am most definitely correct. Charging units still go first in 9th. HI in the opponent's charge phase in 8th gave you free attacks. Not anymore in 9th. You have armor of russ and justiciars to muck about the unit activations but that won't be all over the table.