Chapter Approved/General's Handbook for AoD

[Cris R]

So I was curious to get everyone's thoughts on an idea I floated by my friends, which is FW publishing a softcover 30k version of Chapter Approved or the General's Handbook once it completes the Black Book series. The idea comes from issues I saw in the last two books, which included units needing more refinement like the Crimson Paladins, upgrades needing another do-over like the cost of Scion and Hekatonystika upgrades, and Rites of War that needed more play testing like most of the Dark Angels ones in Crusade.

 

Although I think it would be a good way to address these problems while giving players new campaigns or units, I do see pros and cons with this idea:

 

Pros:

 

1) Regular release dates for revisions of AoD that replace the intermittent publication of FAQs

2) Allows FW to revisit points and abilities of units that appear in the red books

3) Signals to existing player base that FW is continuing to make investments in the system, which can draw new players in

 

Cons:

 

1) Players would need to buy another 30k book to lug around at cons and gaming clubs

2) FW may not have the incentive to put out a quality product if they know they can take another swing at perfecting the rules

3) FW would need to allocate its limited personnel and financial resources towards publishing this book every year, which could delay the release of other 30k products

 

Obviously this idea is rendered moot if FW publishes AoD 2.0 once it completes the series, which probably is the most effective use of its resources. But I wanted to put this idea out there to see what other folks think about whether this idea would help strengthen the system over time.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Cris R

[MegaVolt87]

All depends how many more black books to come. If the rules devs are good at their jobs its possible to write 2.0 HH if they have already done the last one or two black books ahead of time. Then 2.0 red books for everything at launch, then new smaller black book campaign supplements, more art/lore/ missions some new units etc. These could cover smaller conflicts or quick turn around of past larger events with more missions etc, no real delays since most of the content is done at launch, can be back to their favoured limited releases per black book. Back fill missing stuff/ move to plastics, Yearly legion approved and HH is once again in a renaissance, while I looks at the Emperor vs Horus scenic duel base on my desk that won't be a limited release from FW. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

I feel like the first thing that's needed is a FAQ. There's broken and missing stuff that's been around for years. Malevolence never got a faq. I thought Crusade would be a great place to either roll in the playtest stuff or have an updated faq, but clearly not.

[Cris R]

All depends how many more black books to come. If the rules devs are good at their jobs its possible to write 2.0 HH if they have already done the last one or two black books ahead of time. Then 2.0 red books for everything at launch, then new smaller black book campaign supplements, more art/lore/ missions some new units etc. These could cover smaller conflicts or quick turn around of past larger events with more missions etc, no real delays since most of the content is done at launch, can be back to their favoured limited releases per black book. Back fill missing stuff/ move to plastics, Yearly legion approved and HH is once again in a renaissance, while I looks at the Emperor vs Horus scenic duel base on my desk that won't be a limited release from FW. 

 

This makes a lot of sense. Adeptus Titanicus may be a sneak peak into this model of publishing smaller campaign supplements once AoD 2.0 drops at some point in the future. The same goes for Necromunda, which is the other major Specialist product range.

 

I feel like the first thing that's needed is a FAQ. There's broken and missing stuff that's been around for years. Malevolence never got a faq. I thought Crusade would be a great place to either roll in the playtest stuff or have an updated faq, but clearly not.

 

I agree. It shouldn't take this long to publish a PDF on Warhammer Community, but hopefully something will emerge by the end of the year.

[Astartes Consul]

Logically, the next step in terms of published material would be for a revised red book now that all the legions have rules - might also allow for play test rules to be made official and ‘free up’ space in the next Black Book for non-Astartes factions such as Dark Mechanicum.

 

Anything that gives AoD more support is good IMO, but I’m not sure enough comes out every year for a Chapter Approved style physical annual update. I’d rather, as other have said, that there were regular FAQs which are sorely needed.

[MegaVolt87]

Logically, the next step in terms of published material would be for a revised red book now that all the legions have rules - might also allow for play test rules to be made official and ‘free up’ space in the next Black Book for non-Astartes factions such as Dark Mechanicum.

 

Anything that gives AoD more support is good IMO, but I’m not sure enough comes out every year for a Chapter Approved style physical annual update. I’d rather, as other have said, that there were regular FAQs which are sorely needed.

 

Assuming 2.0 isn't happening, then revised red books, rules changes only, then points are revised yearly for HH like with the 40k chapter approved. GW doesn't seem interested in providing meaningful updates that are not monetized these days. So those test rules for destroyers for instance would be "official" because they are in the yearly legion approved. What would sell yearly legion approved would be points and unit entry revisions, free test updates becoming official. So FW could crank out new stuff, throw out "free" unit profile, have people test them, them make them final in a annual publication. then it could organically bulk out, next year has last years updated unit entries, any points changes etc, then at critical mass, new red books again ad infinitum. Unit profiles and points are rolled over/changed if needed, but the mission content is different every year. I would prefer the proper 2.0 re-launch how I initially stated though in my other post. 

[Gorgoff]

What is chapter approved?

Haven't read any 40k related stuff for years, apart from looking at pictures here and there.

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's a yearly point update you get to pay for lol

[Trixie]

For me it's a big no, as I think the addition of a chapter approved supplement would only reinforce the dwindling size of the black book releases and the shrinking levels of content.

 

What is desperately needed is more FAQS and erratas provided without any charge to the community. As previous posters mentioned, book 8 is still without any post release attention and the playtest rules from the last errata 2 years ago still haven't been officially accepted/rejected or mentioned in the recent release of book 9.

[MadHatter5045]

I realize most are going to vehemently disagree with me, but I don't want a new edition or a 2.0. Every time a game (company) does this it just feels like a cash grab. Small annual (or more frequent) tweaks and/or refinements I'd be fine with, but a full on shucking of the books for a new edition with (re)shuffled rules (and units, the models that go with them, and armies by extension) is a total turn off to me. I know they need to make money though, and new editions are usually pretty good for getting people to buy new stuff.

 

Now that all the legions have rules all I'm really looking for is an updated red book with them all collected. If we get that I'll be hard pressed to ever leave AoD 1.X. (I also realize that this statement is why we sadly may not ever see that updated red book.)

Edited September 29, 2020 by MadHatter5045

[Astartes Consul]

 

Logically, the next step in terms of published material would be for a revised red book now that all the legions have rules - might also allow for play test rules to be made official and ‘free up’ space in the next Black Book for non-Astartes factions such as Dark Mechanicum.

 

Anything that gives AoD more support is good IMO, but I’m not sure enough comes out every year for a Chapter Approved style physical annual update. I’d rather, as other have said, that there were regular FAQs which are sorely needed.

 

Assuming 2.0 isn't happening, then revised red books, rules changes only, then points are revised yearly for HH like with the 40k chapter approved. GW doesn't seem interested in providing meaningful updates that are not monetized these days. So those test rules for destroyers for instance would be "official" because they are in the yearly legion approved. What would sell yearly legion approved would be points and unit entry revisions, free test updates becoming official. So FW could crank out new stuff, throw out "free" unit profile, have people test them, them make them final in a annual publication. then it could organically bulk out, next year has last years updated unit entries, any points changes etc, then at critical mass, new red books again ad infinitum. Unit profiles and points are rolled over/changed if needed, but the mission content is different every year. I would prefer the proper 2.0 re-launch how I initially stated though in my other post. 

 

 

I think if 2.0 was happening any time soon there would be plenty of stuff flying around the community about it already to be honest?

 

While I see what you're saying, I think Chapter Approved 'works' for 40k because it is a fundamentally different set up. In any given year there will be multiple codexes, supplements and new units that change the meta that require a rebalancing in points. There is also a competitive tournament scene and a lot more in terms of play testing.  For AoD, and especially now Book 9 is out and we have base lists for every faction, what would there be to rebalance on a yearly basis? Maybe the equivalent of one army list? Each Black Book is on 1.5 - 2 year cycle and there is a small enough team writing rules and publishing the books as it is. I'd rather a commitment to more regular FAQs and an update to the Red Book(s) ASAP.

[Marshal Rohr]

It would be cool but considering there is only Neil and Anuj doing the mechanical work for AoD I’d rather them drop a 2nd edition and new book as often as possible

[MARK0SIAN]

My concern would be the effect the changes in a chapter approved had on the units. Chapter approved frequently nerfs units hard to the point they become unplayable.

 

Given the increased cost in time and money to put armies together in 30k, I’d hate to see large chunks of it suddenly behave/cost/change in radically different ways than it originally did when I planned or built the army.

 

Likewise, 30k doesn’t generate the kind of data that writers can use to assess balance that 40k does. There’s a lot less events and players to provide the feedback.

 

I’d rather they went with FAQs than a chapter approved method.

[Varyn]

I would prefer not to see an annual update on rules/points. FW are happy to revisit older units and update them as we saw with playtest rules in the FAQ and the updated Nightlords rules, there's no need for this to be done an annual basis. Errata's to provide clarity and to fix some rules issues would be good, but 30k doesn't need annual updates trying to make every unit equally viable and balanced against one another. 

 

I think most players would welcome updated legion books to bring together all the changes and to provide a few tweaks to some of the units which don't see much table time.

[Cris R]

My concern would be the effect the changes in a chapter approved had on the units. Chapter approved frequently nerfs units hard to the point they become unplayable.

 

Given the increased cost in time and money to put armies together in 30k, I’d hate to see large chunks of it suddenly behave/cost/change in radically different ways than it originally did when I planned or built the army.

This is probably the best argument against Chapter Approved for AoD. GW has shown it's largely incapable of making precise adjustments to overpowered units. Instead, they hit everything with a massive nerf bat, which creates major swings in lists every year. One could argue that FW could make careful edits, but experimenting with a stable system like AoD isn't the best place to do this.

 

When it comes to FAQs, the question is: what could create incentives for FW to produce regular FAQs? A Chapter Approved for AoD could create financial ones but I’m not sure how the community could incentivize FW to take this step with free FAQs.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Cris R

[MegaVolt87]

 

My concern would be the effect the changes in a chapter approved had on the units. Chapter approved frequently nerfs units hard to the point they become unplayable.

 

Given the increased cost in time and money to put armies together in 30k, I’d hate to see large chunks of it suddenly behave/cost/change in radically different ways than it originally did when I planned or built the army.

This is probably the best argument against Chapter Approved for AoD. GW has shown it's largely incapable of making precise adjustments to overpowered units. Instead, they hit everything with a massive nerf bat, which creates major swings in lists every year. One could argue that FW could make careful edits, but experimenting with a stable system like AoD isn't the best place to do this.

 

When it comes to FAQs, the question is: what could create incentives for FW to produce regular FAQs? A Chapter Approved for AoD could create financial ones but I’m not sure how the community could incentivize FW to take this step with free FAQs.

 

 

Lack of FAQ's for HH is just a symptom of larger issues HH faces. HH feels like the black sheep of the company, and is very mismanaged from marketing, promotions, availability, community building (majority of GW stores outright ban FW due to incompetent managers who are scared of FW eating into their sales quotas) etc.

 

While its not optimal, a monetized update system via a legion approved would see a faster turn around of updates for HH. It would have other content besides unit sheet updates and points revisions- more missions, even a new pack of tournament style missions for HH events. Not all change is good, otherwise I just see what's happening now continuing without some wider shake up or desire of sales growth for HH to bring forth the desired changes. The updates + releases seem to not be getting any bigger or better- would you rather the small updates that leave things broken for years on end or smaller updates that are then fixed within the space of a year- because I don't anticipate big splash releases in a constant stream for HH going forward AND timely rules support.