Lunchbreak TheoryHammer: Playing the 9th Ed Mission as IG/AM

[Captain Caine 24th]

I'm getting painting done these days, but no tournaments around lately. So, I want to talk about the mission and objectives as it relates to AG/IM decisions in the game. I'm by no means an expert, 50/50 at a tourney is a very good showing for me, but hopefully I can flesh out some weakness in my strategy.

 

So, let's start with Retrieval Mission. What do we Know?

• Scoring: get on to one objective, score 5 points (easy, it’s in your deployment zone). Get on two, score another 5... Get on more than half, score another 5.
  • But - no scoring Battle Round (BR) 1.
    • So, we should get in position to capture on T2 or later.
  • You score in command phase, and movement phase comes after that. This means you’ll need to move onto objectives, and survive the enemy turn in order to score in your next command phase. 
• The table is 44” x 60”  
• There are 6 objectives; Objectives are 40mm; and Controlling an objective means being within 3” or 5” horizontal
  • 6 objectives tells me I don't want to show up with only 6 units. I like redundancy. I'd like to be able to capture over 50% as often as possible. Who knows what's practical, but I like the idea of lots of units--really cover the board.
• The four objectives outside deployment zones are about 14.4” away from center (I think, haven't had a math class in some decades).
  • Secondaries scoring within 6” of center thus don’t necessarily synergize well
• 1x Objectives is in your deployment zone
  • Well, this one is easy? Choose to deploy on this to capture it and deny your opponent. Something like Creed and mortars might like to stay put there. Though this is only 8" deep in deployment, and they might want to be further back. I could see having several units available moving in spaced ranks, maybe counter charge units here behind a screen is the right idea.
• 2x objectives are  4” away from your deployment zone, 20” away from opponent
  • Most all infantry can move 6”
  • With 3” capture range and 40mm objective size, you only need to move about 1”... 
  • Even if the enemy moves 12” it’d have to charge 8” to get in combat. I guess, don't be careless with your move.
    • watch out, Death company have a stratagem to move before T1 (they’ll get a charge on you); i think a lot of other armies have this too
  • You’re likely moving within 24” range—most weapons in the game; it's open season if you go
  • You may get some intervening terrain to obscure the units (creating the battlefield is before deployment, don't get careless, though consider you might not get the deployment zone you want)
• 2x objectives are 20” away from your deployment zone; 4” away from enemy deployment zone
  • Can you get there? Yes. Should you get there... I don't know.
  • Scout sentinels can move 2d6 with a stratagem in your shooting phase to get really far forward
  • Most transports can’t disembark after movement. So, Chimera and Taurox are disembarking T2, if appropriate.
    • watchout: An impulsor can go 14” and disembark afterward (another 3”), so a unit can move up 17” making these objectives 3” away, but since the objective is 40mm, it you’re actually slightly closer than 3” and it looks like you could control it T1.
    • We could use a Valkyrie as it can move 20+ and disembark on the objective through ‘grav chut insertion’ rule.
    • I kind of like the concept of having a transport and a unit--it forces a target priority decision on the enemy: shoot the cheap troop unit or shoot the tougher transport.
    • A taurox prime actually is a fairly impressive threat (not overpowered at all, but it can really do damage if left alone). Maybe too expensive... I don't know.
    • It’d be good to have the ability to get on the objectives way up there, but be able to choose if this is what you want to do it. I think this is the answer—you don’t have to rush the table, but you can do it if the opponent makes a mistake.
  • if you're that far forward, you’re in charge range and even in range of pistols. Brace for impact.
  • Terrain is less likely to help obscure being so close, just by virtue of less space. Probably will have more firing lines too.
  • Watchout: enemy space marines might set up scouts 9” outside enemy deployment zones during deployment, they'll be out there quick.
• And, finally, 1x objective is 32” away, in your enemy’s deployment zone
  • The enemy will surely plan to keep that

OPTIONS

• Decision: stay put (For Cadia!)
  • I think you can still benefit from standing still, once you have a good line of sight, maybe a couple of times per game.
  • But, for the most part I think the game is lost if you aren't moving out aggressively.
• Decision: Stand on a few Objectives in force, or on many with relatively weaker presence
  • Standing on 2 nets 10 points, standing on 4 nets 15 points; standing on 3 nets no primary over and above 2; likewise 5 does nothing more than 4
  • Defense, Redirection, & Redundancy: holding more OBJ forces the enemy to wipe out more units otherwise you’ll score; enemy must react or fall behind in points (could redirect target priority away from valuable units);  
  • Redundancy: Standing on many objectives at once may assist secondary completion;
    • put multiple units on each objective for redundancy, make the enemy shoot 3 units off the table; maybe different kinds of units so the enemy has to have several shooting types to effectively remove them
  • Army Construction: if you're closing with the enemy, why not bring demolishers to the party?
    • custom regiments, and Catachan make sense to me
  • Negatives:
    • Any time you get close, you get within enemy shooting range,
    • your important characters or units might not be on the deployment line, so they might be farther away and out of range still; moving forward might interrupt their auras and bonuses
    • don’t feed the enemy assault units your own models to use as cover as they advance into your lines
      o Counter: You can use a stratagem to break out for one unit (so maybe don’t offer several assault targets to the enemy at once)
    • The answer isn’t “don’t let them get to my lines” it’s “I have a response when they get here”
    • If you aren’t taking a high-speed assault army, you need to prepare to meet one--Give them a problem to deal with, tough units to slow them or make them deal with objectives you’re getting. This to me says Bullgryns.
  • Mitigation:
    • you’re only 24” away to start with so it’s already on, no point in standing around
    • Mitigate with terrain—what ever deployment zone you get, you know you where objectives are going if you know the mission. Put some terrain out there to cover it. Recognize this could help the opponent though if you lose roll offs. High mobility units will benefit the most as they can simply move around and still accomplish goals.
• Decision: Keeping some units back
  • this may prevent the opponent from scoring secondaries right away (don’t let them deep strike into deployment zone)
  • You might have room to prepare a counter charge if things go badly at the front; the alternative of rushing out too quickly could cause all kinds of problems with the enemy all over you.
  • Prepare units to engage in the center table
  • If you let the enemy control over 50% you’ve lost, you have to get out there
  • Prepare units to engage units on all objectives
  • Non-line of sight shooting is important (force the enemy to commit more than a cheap unit to hold its deployment zone objective); 
  • Fast units can really help get there and contest
  • Objective secured is a helpful rule to contest
• Decision: run out and capture whatever possible
  • run out and stand on an objective T1, you could score command phase T2.
    • Intent: score and don't get killed. 
  • I feel like if I run out to capture 5 objectives, I’ll lose a lot of units without scoring points. What have they done to earn their value? 
  • Hopefully units on points can still shoot to recover some value before dying
  • Hyper fast units might just get that T1 charge… (I’m thinking white scars and hormagaunts) if that happens then they own the whole table by boxing the opponent in. The opponent really has to deal with them to push out. 
    • Counter: bring Valkyries or units with big mobility to break out; bring counter charge units to get these guys cleared out quickly or tie them up to prevent them from causing more damage. Bring non-los shooting to hit weaker targets even if you are boxed in. use screening units where possible—stop a charge before it gets to important stuff & let the enemy waste points on chaff.

What about secondaries?

• Well, this could vary quite a bit. But, we can address some known benefits on the mission.
• we know selecting and revealing secondaries comes before deployment. This means you can think about it and deploy with it in mind.
  • certainly they'll go for primaries, but if you know your opponent is selecting Teleport Homer, Linebreaker, deploy scramblers, engage on all fronts, domination, pierce the veil you also know they have added incentive to get into your deployment zone.
  • It makes sense to plan for reserves coming.
  • Rushing out too fast, could open a gap for them to come in.
  • On the other hand, two can play at this game. Cheap scions seem like a great unit for us to deep strike in to the opponent. If the opponent lets them go, then you score points, so they must divert energy to it. Lots of fast assault armies are grouped up together, and don't want to backtrack to destroy a small unit. Ratlings also can fill a similar role of harassing and forcing a disproportionate response. These days units can split fire among several targets though, so use cover wisely.
  • I guess, if you plan to rush forward with 3x demolisher tank commanders, and appropriate screening units--think about who's staying back to hold ground and what they can kill. I think a basilisk has some use here, to help where ever something happens. Again cheap scions could help tactically flexibility, if they aren't getting an objective, they can drop in to help kill somebody in your deployment zone. 
• if we assume this mission causes you to move out for primaries, then either engage on all fronts or domination pair well (you're moving anyway), along with Raise banners high too. Getting on an objective serves multiple roles.
  • Also, high movement relates to what I'm giving up. I like the idea of hellhounds, as moving fast and supporting my infantry. However, I also like tank commanders, and am seriously considering a valkyrie or two. This opens me up to 'bring it down.' I'm giving up 3VP each 11+ vehicle destroyed. I don't really want to give up more than 10. Then again, if I've lost that many vehicles the game might be a forgone conclusion anyway.
  • just the same, I like sentinels, but they're very easy kills
• center table secondaries aren't necessarily bad, but objectives aren't located there. So no immediate doubling of benefit. e.g. psychic ritual, investigate sites
• likewise, secondaries that ask you to be outside of 6" of the center are comparably better too, e.g. engage on all fronts.
• if we assume that I want a lot of units for redundancy on 6 objectives, then comparatively I may outnumber the enemy. This may incentivize the enemy to take 'thin their ranks.' This isn't the best secondary so long as I limit the numbers. However, 'grind them down' may still be feasible for the enemy--they get 3VP so long as they kill more than i do.
  • I still like infantry squads, they are needed for secondaries, and providing a screen for my tanks
• I'm not thrilled by the Retrieval Mission special secondary 'minimise losses' as it's based on how much of my army is left. Typically my army looks fairly rough at end game. I think i'd only get 5VP off of it.

Happy hunting, let me know what you think.

 

 

[Captain Caine 24th]

Alright, a bit more ranting/rumination on playing the mission as IG/AM.

 

Thoughts on mission focused army construction so far: I like the idea of getting lots of infantry on the table to go after objectives. But, there’s a problem in the volume of anti-infantry firepower these days (that new space marine tank will be terrible). Also, they don’t give me a good counter charge once the enemy reaches my lines. More and more I’m thinking Bullgryn, for better or worse, fill a helpful role in mission completion. They're just slow, which I don't like with so many objectives spread out. I also like cheap scions. Fully loading them for firepower (or outflanking special weapon squads I suppose) is debatable. 

 

And some more positives and negative factors on executing mission objectives:

 

Go Reckless: Run out as fast as possible to those objectives

+ get out there for an early score

+leman russes and infantry with orders are actually very fast--Tallarn regiment, especially so.

+cheap objective secured infantry is available. I could envision a scenario where a super durable enemy just won’t care about IG/AM shooting. It’s always disheartening when 2000 pts shoots at something and does nothing. That could be an army construction issue (sufficient anti-tank, mortal wounds, anti-infantry, etc). Or, you might just try drowning them in bodies—can’t kill’em, contest them.

 

- get shot and charged by a whole & intact enemy army; you might be trading a lot of units for nothing, not even scoring

-IG/AM is not a very durable army on a per model basis – most units are very expendable 

-slow moving units can’t keep up; units can get isolated and destroyed without support

-advancing gives up your shooting unless tallarn

-what if you lose the roll off and go 2nd?

 

Be Over Cautious: Stay back and wait till later turns to move onto them

+possible good defensive position; maximize distance to enemy to get more turns of shooting in; might make use of cover

+possible bonuses to stationary shooting (cadia); 

+weaken the enemy before closing in; destroy more units

+opportunity to observe enemy movement to avoid getting out of position (prevent moving units where they can’t accomplish anything). However, since objectives will be known, you should have some idea where the enemy will go during deployment. Most enemies move faster than IG/AM, so they might just out-maneuver you if you try to react.

 

-what if i'm going first? I don't want to be sitting there with nothing to shoot at, and too far away from objectives.

-enemy will be scoring right away, it may create an insurmountable gap

-the enemy knows you have to contest the objectives, meaning they can force you to come to them

-manticores and basilisks though a good unit, are not necessarily good if taken in large numbers, damage output is lower than direct fire (points are paid for the benefit of non-LOS shooting); that is, sitting back and shooting isn’t terribly effective at the more durable units in the game, especially if there are -1 to hit modifiers and some way to ignore wounds or increase saves. I guess the big concern here is... what if I shoot everything I have and nothing really happens? I think Tau are (or were) better suited to this type of play).

 

Make a Plan: Move out with Purpose

+assuming you take a large IG/AM army (lots of units) pushing out can create spaces in your lines, instead of having units clumped together. This can help prevent multi-charges (enemy getting tied up with multiple units, preventing you from shooting them), and just charges on key units generally—protect that tank commander.

+taking up table space prevents enemy movement. It can literally block movement, as with a flyer or may require them to shoot

 

-moving closer reduces enemy charge range. That's not so hot. If you’re going to push forward, there’s got to be a plan, or the enemy can just tie you in combat to prevent you from shooting them in your turn, then wipe out your screening unit in your assault phase to set up a charge into your next unit in their turn. 

• Mitgation: you can fall back from combat. They may surround one or more models to prevent falling back, but this can be mitigated via ‘desperate breakout’ strat for 2CP or using the valhallan strat to shoot into the melee. It’s also not a guarantee you’ll get tied up. The enemy has to be very precise with movement and pile-ins, and you might still remove models during their fight phase to free up the unit to fall back. Well, if they kill every model they’ll be open to shoot at too. You also have to be precise so the enemy doesn’t consolidate from combat into another squad (well, the enemy can’t fight twice absent a stratagem, but some of your bullgryns sitting there might be happy to help if consolidated into). I'm thinking about Yarrick and straken again too.
  

Now, you're right, Theory, Conjecture, and Hypothesis go only so far. And, certainly thinking about any single facet of the game in isolation is not enough. But, I think it's useful to think about more than "I'm moving infantry squad to X point" or "my tank commander is shooting enemy Y." I need to start thinking about taking and holding--a few turns ahead.

[WarriorFish]

Plenty of cud to chew here, unfortunately I've yet to get a game in for 9th so can't offer any more. With the focus being heavy on objectives in 9th this needs attention and all the more so for Guard where individual units tend to have little to no staying power to hold them. Any tricks and tips to aid will help, and of course everyone has a fully painted army for those top up points right? :P

[Expendable_Aquanaut]

I agree with Warriorfish on the painted army part! That's a good tip for getting the maximum amount of points for sure.

 

I can't speak to alot of this as I haven't played many non-scion guard lists. That said, I think the move, move, move order is absolutely key to grabbing objectives. Our infantry and tanks can be deceptively quick. I would also say that good use of cover is absolutely essential for having our units stick around. This has been important to keep in mind when prioritizing objectives to hold.

 

At least as far as all-scion lists go, I've found that sometimes you might not have enough units to hold many objectives at once. I've been forced to shoot opponents off of objectives rather than holding a majority of them myself. This has been pretty effective though as scions feel like they've gotten considerably deadlier since the greater good book came out. I've also found that 10 man squads of scions have been deceptively hard to dislodge from cover. I've been using a ten man squad with a psychic barrier astropath to hold riskier objectives. With cover, psychic barrier, and "get down" they can have a 1up save. You can forgo the astropath or the get down strat for a still respectable 2up.

 

Finally, you mentioned bullgryns. I think bullgryns and crusaders could each be used as effective objective holders. I'm already running one valkyrie at 50pl or 1k points. You could throw either squad in there and have a super quick way to transport these slow moving units. Also, you can now have the valk fly right off the board and still drop off your squads. Super helpful for redeployment of scion squads later and keeping your transport from getting popped.

 

Finally, I've found assassins can be used to keep some melee pressure off of your fragile squads. Can be a great distraction and buy you another turn before your guys have to get stabby.

[Captain Caine 24th]

Plenty of cud to chew here, unfortunately I've yet to get a game in for 9th so can't offer any more. With the focus being heavy on objectives in 9th this needs attention and all the more so for Guard where individual units tend to have little to no staying power to hold them. Any tricks and tips to aid will help, and of course everyone has a fully painted army for those top up points right?

Absolutely. Still working on the Death Korps! 

 

I agree with Warriorfish on the painted army part! That's a good tip for getting the maximum amount of points for sure.

 

I can't speak to alot of this as I haven't played many non-scion guard lists. That said, I think the move, move, move order is absolutely key to grabbing objectives. Our infantry and tanks can be deceptively quick. I would also say that good use of cover is absolutely essential for having our units stick around. This has been important to keep in mind when prioritizing objectives to hold.

 

At least as far as all-scion lists go, I've found that sometimes you might not have enough units to hold many objectives at once. I've been forced to shoot opponents off of objectives rather than holding a majority of them myself. This has been pretty effective though as scions feel like they've gotten considerably deadlier since the greater good book came out. I've also found that 10 man squads of scions have been deceptively hard to dislodge from cover. I've been using a ten man squad with a psychic barrier astropath to hold riskier objectives. With cover, psychic barrier, and "get down" they can have a 1up save. You can forgo the astropath or the get down strat for a still respectable 2up.

 

Finally, you mentioned bullgryns. I think bullgryns and crusaders could each be used as effective objective holders. I'm already running one valkyrie at 50pl or 1k points. You could throw either squad in there and have a super quick way to transport these slow moving units. Also, you can now have the valk fly right off the board and still drop off your squads. Super helpful for redeployment of scion squads later and keeping your transport from getting popped.

 

Finally, I've found assassins can be used to keep some melee pressure off of your fragile squads. Can be a great distraction and buy you another turn before your guys have to get stabby.

 

I hadn't thought about an astropath with scions and I haven't tried them yet with greater good. Crusaders are a great point. With that 40k Arena release, i figured we might actually see more plastic crusaders at some point. An assassin is a good point too, lots of tactical flexibility there. I think I'll put a valkyrie in my games and see what happens. 

 

I'm still not totally sold on bullgryns as I worry they are a point sink. That is, even if they are our best option for this role, are they outclassed, such by other armies indicating I should move towards a different army design? 

• Maybe I throw in some astropaths or primaris to assist the bullgryns… But then am making nasty secondaries easy for my opponent?
• Maybe I just need cheap screening units followed closely by mobile, strong shooting (demolisher tank commanders, hellhounds)
• Maybe I need to think harder about combined arms—get all kinds of varied cheap units in the fray. Infantry have a lot of utility, but sentinels and transports can offer a lot too.

You also raise a great point about movement. So I was also thinking about getting on objectives and actually supporting them--keeping them. Typically, if I’m on an objective, a 6” movement + 2D6” assault won’t get me in range to assault somebody off of an objective (19.2, 24 or 30, +/-3”). At least considering movement alone for a minute, with tank and infantry orders we probably can get to these ranges, but I need to plan for using two turns to do it

• Infantry 6” + D6”and move move move order for another 6+ D6”
  • Alternatively we could have some shooting phase utility, with an order like Forwards for the emperor to shoot despite advancing
• Leman Russ 10” + D6” and Full Throttle order 10” + D6
  • Realistically I want that 'grinding advance' double shoot, so I want to be moving less than 5".
  • Tallarn can still use get around behind them order to get another 6” without impacting grinding advance, so they can get out 11” still firing hard; likewise they can advance and shoot as assault weapons with the regiment doctrine

Generally, since OBJ can be captured w/in 3” enemy units, they could actually be further away than the center point of objectives. It could be an issue. This can cut the other way as you may not need to move as far to contest an objective (if they have objective secured, then just getting into range might not be enough and you might have a fight on your hands). Still, here's some rough math on distances I'll need to cross.

 

Primaries starting at 5pts for holding 1+ OBJ

Retrieval Mission 6x OBJ;  

• 24” between DZ

• 4x outside DZs; 1x per DZ; distance apart being 16”; 16.97”; 40”

 

Scorched Earth 6x OBJ; (long edge)

• 24” between DZ

• 2x on each player deployment line; 2x outside DZs; distance apart being 13.4”; 24”; 32.31”; 33.94”

 

Surround and Destroy 6x OBJ;  (long edge)

• 24” between DZ

• 2x OBJ in each DZ; 2x outside of DZ; distance apart being 28”; 40”; 20” and 17.2”

 

Battle Lines 4x OBJ; 

• 24” distance between DZ

• 1x per player DZ; 2x outside DZ; distance apart being 28”, 36” or 22.8”

 

Sweep and Clear (quarters)

• 18” distance between DZ

• 5x OBJ; 1x on center; 4x 19.2” from center (setting out the points of a rectangular shape), and 24” or 30” from each other;

• From DZ; 1x inside; 1x 12” away; 1x in enemy DZ 28.2” away; 1x 18” away

 

Priority target: (diagonal)

• Approx. 24” distance between DZ (not explicitly noted)

• 5x OBJ; 1x on center; 4x 19.2” from center (setting out the points of a rectangular shape), and 24” or 30” from each other; 

• 2x outside DZ; 1x in each DZ

 

Primaries Starting at: 5pts for holding 2+ OBJ

Vital Intelligence 6x OBJ (diagonal)

• 24” between DZ

• 1x OBJ in each DZ; 4x outside DZ; distance apart being 12” 36” 48” and roughly 30” 

 

The Scouring 5x OBJ; (small boxes)

• 28” between DZ

• 5x OBJ outside DZ; shaped as a square with a center OBJ; distance apart at 16”, 16.12”, and 28”

 

Overrun 6x OBJ; (Long deployment edge)

• 24” distance between DZ

• 4x OBJ outside DZ; 1x OBJ in each DZ (28” from opponent DZ); being 20” apart; 32” apart; or 17.08” apart