Jump packs and armor marks..

[bushman101]

Finally got some Apothecaries for my IXth legion and I'm going to put JPs on them.

That got me thinking about what type of JP matches each armor mark.

 

So MK IV had the 1 big thruster with the 2 smaller ones and MK V had the turbines.

What about MK III armor? And did the Turbine style belong to another armor mark, since it is a mish-mash of field repairs? 

[WrathOfTheLion]

MK V isn't quite a mishmash, at least the production variant that you see on the FW website.

 

MK III is really plates on top of MK II for the most part, so it should end up using a similar jump pack to that. Unfortunately, they do not produce MK II assault marines anymore.

 

MK II jump packs are very similar to MK V with the turbines, but you can note that they have the basis of a MK II/MK III power pack underneath, while the MK V one has a MK VI style pack as its basis.

The Ashen Circle for the Word Bearers are the only thing I can think of right now with a MK II/MK III style jump pack still in production on Forge World.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Word-Bearers-Legion-Ashen-Circle

[StrangerOrders]

Worth noting that from alot of the lore we have MKIII is really heavy armor and I can't actually recall seeing any MKIII's with a Jump Pack ever.

 

That being said, the Apothecary models we have are all MKII or MKIV so there should not be any issues on that front as far as matching JPs.

 

The downside is that FW has not sold independent JPs for a while now and that its a bit of a killer to buy the pricy kits to cannibalize them for two packs. There alternatives but they arent really FW.

 

The cheapest option for cannibalizing MKIV JPs are Sanguinary Guard from GW, depending on where you live. 

 

MKII, you are down to Ashen Circle which look a bit stylized still but thems the breaks. 

 

That being said, JPs look absolutely great on Apoths and the BAngels did do all sorts of interesting things with JPs. So you could slap the Sanguinary Guard packs on both and keep the wings on. You can even call it a customization of the armor to allow for the wings for the MKII's case as the BAngels were very skilled artificers and had an allied FW next door with a tendency towards distinct tech.

 

Hope this helps!

[Darkwrath121]

Worth noting that from alot of the lore we have MKIII is really heavy armor and I can't actually recall seeing any MKIII's with a Jump Pack ever.

 

MkIII can definitely use jump packs, we see characters like Zephon of Baal, and old Visions art, with jump-pack MkIII. I may be misremembering, but I would have sworn that Alan Bligh or somebody involved in the writing mentioned that it's an entirely viable combo, it just never got modelled.

[Spagunk]

So I think, lore wise, it's just assumed mk3 can't do Jump packs but here is why that is:

Mk3 has added frontal armor for close assaults and boarding actions. This, in turn, has noted references of making the armor both harder to repair but also very front heavy. This then assumes that when using jump packs you're going to have a harder time steering because you're always front heavy. In other words, it's implied that front heavy armor is bad for jump assaults in general.

 

I don't think it's actually directly stated but rather implied. Technically there is nothing preventing you from doing so. That said, it makes sense that mk3 is uparmored frontal armor on mk2 for boarding actions and close assaults while more balanced armors are just fine with their own style of jump packs.

 

Sourcing mk2 jump packs, however, is a huge problem everywhere. Best option is to re-use mkV as they're closely related. Alternatively, you could find a 3rd party seller that has something more appropriate.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Spagunk

[Spagunk]

I will point out that I myself am against putting packs on mk3. But I also try to put them in anything that requires them to be close ranged: Flamer/Melta support squads, close ranged heavy weapons etc.

 

I also went through all the books (1-8) and could not find a single image of a mk3 with a jump pack. Not even in any of the black shield sections or some of the "improvised" color panels.

 

[Gorgoff]

FW said it early in the HH that MIII are a thing but never made some.

[Ryltar Thamior]

Have  definitely read the remark attested earlier around some official source stating that Mk.III jump-packs are a thing, just not one that's been produced by FW. 

And really, we are in a situation wherein you can attach a jump-pack to a Primarch, you can attach a jump-pack to a *Dreadnought* (apparently .. sort-of) ... in M42 we have almost the situation of jump-packs on near-terminator equivalents, it would seem ... 

I do understand and kinda like the elaborate fluff justifications people have come up with for why there are no jump packs on Mk.III armour - but while it would understandably make them rare , perhaps, I am not sure that they should be out completely without official statement to the contrary.

Although the best way of modelling them ... the old 4e Raptor jump-packs ... is rather difficult for obvious reasons. 

 

[Closet Skeleton]

What about MK III armor? And did the Turbine style belong to another armor mark, since it is a mish-mash of field repairs? 

Mark V isn't a mishmash of previous marks, mish-mash armours are common in Forgeworld Black books depicting late great crusade forces but those aren't early examples of Heresy armour. Mark V is a development from Mark IV and its main disadvantages are a response to flaws in that mark.

 

Mark V jump packs are clearly derived from Mark II ones but most Mark II jump packs would have been worn out and useless by the time Mark V haphardly emerged on campaign. They will be new jump packs designed for easy maintainance by artificers experianced with the mark II design. A marine in Mark V could put on a Mark II jump pack but that would be mixing Mark V and II.

 

Basically any armour and equipment pieces can be mixed around, there's nothing right or wrong about any combination of bits.

[Spagunk]

Technically not true. They specifically highlight problems mixing mk 4 and mk2 (and mk3, likely) by saying only iron hand artificers were able to solve the incompatibility issues (book 5-6 I believe?). So it's not as clear cut on what can or cannot be mixed and matched. Seems like helms were easy enough. I would think the added power required for later marks may have hindered some things. The improvised nature of mk5 may also have allowed or not allowed certain levels of mixing. It's pretty vague but armor incompatibility was a legit issue as stated in at least one black book.

 

Whether that meant jump packs? It's difficult based on fluff, thus why it's in question. It's all based on pattern comments since a lot of the blurbs call out some designs while others call out marks: jovian pattern, or saturnine pattern etc. I'm guessing that certain patterns of mk 3 were more easily adaptive to later marks. Again, not terribly clear.

 

Ideally, I they should do a "in person" technical about it.would be a cool source/fluff type thing.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Spagunk

[Gorgoff]

Ideally they bring a new starter box with MKIII jump packs, outrider/hussars/jetbikes some badass characters and Saturnine terminators. That's what I wanna see.

[Spagunk]

Personally, I would prefer that Saturnine were redone to look more like Leviathan dreads rather than just rehashing the old rogue trader versions.

 

I want mk2 back though. Really bad. Just 5 bodies and they can do separate upgrade kits. Nothing fancy, don't need a whole rash of new mk2 related items: 5 guys and done.

 

They already have the special weapons for mk2 anyway.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Spagunk

[Gorgoff]

Personally, I would prefer that Saturnine were redone to look more like Leviathan dreads rather than just rehashing the old rogue trader versions.

 

I want mk2 back though. Really bad. Just 5 bodies and they can do separate upgrade kits. Nothing fancy, don't need a whole rash of new mk2 related items: 5 guys and done.

 

They already have the special weapons for mk2 anyway.

I agree to each and every sentence.

[bushman101]

hmm....didn't know they had a kit for Mk II. That would be a neat kit to get a hold of.

[MegaVolt87]

If you tidy up the plastic CSM raptor jump packs, they would be fine to use with mk III as they are the turbine style ones IMO.

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

Personally I'm a fan of the raptor jump pack, and will put it on anything I like! :P

 

[Fenbain]

hmm....didn't know they had a kit for Mk II. That would be a neat kit to get a hold of.

The ones in the Ashen Circle kit are identical, so you can still get hold of them.

[bushman101]

 

hmm....didn't know they had a kit for Mk II. That would be a neat kit to get a hold of.

The ones in the Ashen Circle kit are identical, so you can still get hold of them.

 

From the looks of them, it will be a lot of work to fill the gylphs/runes/whatever.

I'll probably keep my Mk III apothecary on the ground. 

[StrangerOrders]

 

 

hmm....didn't know they had a kit for Mk II. That would be a neat kit to get a hold of.

The ones in the Ashen Circle kit are identical, so you can still get hold of them.

 

From the looks of them, it will be a lot of work to fill the gylphs/runes/whatever.

I'll probably keep my Mk III apothecary on the ground. 

 

To clarify, I'm assuming you bought the Apoth duo from FW?

 

If so, that's a MKII and MKIV so no worries there. Someone could likely point you to one but I am not aware of a MKIII Apothecary sculpt.

 

It has all the distinguishing marks of MKII also (the limb rims and the articulated chestplate), its only odd in having independent eye-slots where most baseline MKII configurations were infamously cyclopean.

[Ganders]

https://imgur.com/a/2nFY1PX

 

(Can't work out how to show the image in the post, but it's also my avatar)

 

I always loved this image for heavy armoured marines using jump packs. Not totally sure of the mark.

[Spagunk]

Looks like a mix of mk3 and mk5 which means it's probably mk5 (cables on the legs). That is to say, it's mk5  .

The backpack is really an odd one and looks like a single BIG engine but not a mk4. The helm is either a stylized mk3 or a mk2. Arms almost look like RT era marine (pointy elbows) but elements of uparmored mk3. Chest look similar to mk5 but bulkier so it may just be a DG stylized mk3 chest.

 

There's really a lot going here but it strikes me as late Heresy/early scouring cobbled Death Guard before ascension to Nurgle. Kinda/sorta like how the book 1-3 Sons of Horus (Istvaan/post Ullanor) had a more brutal/chaotic feel about them vs Late crusade/Pre-Ullanor tended to be more formal/tradition.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Spagunk

[The Scorpion]

Finally got some Apothecaries for my IXth legion and I'm going to put JPs on them.

That got me thinking about what type of JP matches each armor mark.

 

So MK IV had the 1 big thruster with the 2 smaller ones and MK V had the turbines.

What about MK III armor? And did the Turbine style belong to another armor mark, since it is a mish-mash of field repairs? 

 

Technically speaking, no jump pack belongs to any mark. Like bolters, the jumpacks themselves are a separate pattern from the armor, wether it is "sol-harrier" (twin turbines) or "phaeton" (triple thruster).

 

And MKV is not a mish-mash. It's a pattern that was invented due those mish-mashes and the need to standarize them, meaning it's designed to be easier to produce (and more importantly, mantain) albeit at the cost of being less advanced. MK5 is a pattern in it's own right and has blueprints and advantages unique to it. (Such as the large amount of molecular bonding studs making it the best at Astartes vs Astartes combat.)