1750 point raven guard successor TAC list advice

[XeonDragon]

Hi all

 

Looking for your thoughts on a 1750 point battalion list for a Raven Guard successor chapter (master artisans, stealthy) that I will be using in an upcoming tournament. Local meta is marine-heavy, with some chaos marines thrown in. Tables are a little on the small side for the points, so my recent experience suggests melee will feature more than most games. That is, hanging back shooting things off the table not as much of an option as might be usual.

 

List is restricted to what I have built and painted. This is what I have settled on so far:

 

HQ

1. Captain (warlord), Combi-plasma, chainsword (teeth of terra), master of tri-fold path (Feigned flight, Imperium’s sword)
2. Libarian (Chief Librarian), combi-plasma, force stave, spectral blade, shadow step, might of heroes, psychic hood.
3. Primaris Lieutenant, bellicose bolt rifle.

Troops

3 x 5-man intercessor squads, two with assault bolters, auxiliary grenade launchers and veterans, one squad with stalker bolt rifles. All sergeants have chains words.

 

Elites

1. 5-man boltstorm aggressor squad
2. 2 x 5 man terminator squads, sergeant with storm bolter and power sword, 3 with storm bolters and power fists, 1 with cyclone missile launcher, storm bolter and power fist
3. 1 venerable dreadnought with twin lascannon

Heavy Support

1. Eliminator squad (all bolt sniper rifles)
2. Eradicator squad

That is what I am fairly settled on. What I am not sure of is which of the following options to take to flesh out the last 198 points of the list:

1. A quad las predator with HK missile and  bump the stalker bolt rifle intercessors to a 6 man squad
2. A squad of 6 hellblasters or
3. A devastator squad (sergeant with combi-plasm and chain sword, 4 x grav cannon and grav amp) + drop pod with storm bolter.
4. A squad of 4 plasma inceptors, and drop 1 of the auxiliary grenade launchers from the a squad of intercessors.

Idea behind the list is a TAC list. I expect to be charged, hence veteran intercessors, aggressors and terminators. I am hoping the venerable dreadnought and eradicators can take care of vehicles, monsters, even if the aggressors or terminators needs to pitch in with melee. Eliminator squad is anti-character. Librarian and captain are anti-character and heavy infantry mop-up.

 

Stuck on whether to take quad las predator for more anti-tank, or take hell blasters. Also thought about taking drop pod with grav devastators for early board control/carnifax distraction. Other options include whirlwind, tactial marines, sniper scouts, venerable chaplain dreadnought, twin las razorbacks (x2), Rhino (x1), infiltrators (x2), but leaning towards using what I have listed above.

 

Anyway, all feedback or suggestions welcome!

 

 

 

[Alcyon]

Hey Xeon - I'd say the Hellblasters and Inceptors are out if you don't have a Captain to run them with, the risk of overcharge is pretty huge without re-rolls though I guess Master Artisans is a little help. You could run the Hellblasters with the Dreadnought and use the stratagem when you overcharge, that's an option since they have similar movement profiles and the dread can offer some melee discouragement. 

 

Grav pod is certainly the most competitive option I'd say. I think the Predator might have trouble getting LoS to the targets it wants and for the points you'd be better off using Eradicators with SftS.

 

I'd be careful with the pre-game stratagem upgrades; by my count you're down to 7 CP before the game starts which is a little tight if you want to use Gravitic Amplification and Wisdom of the Ancients etc. on top of things that'll come up. Stranglehold is a good thing to consider too. Veteran Intercessors might not be too impactful if you expect them to get charged by a unit they'll have trouble overwhelming in combat (T5, 2+ saves, etc. anything like that.)

 

Have you given any thought to which Secondaries you want to pick and your strategy for scoring them? Your list is pretty light on maneuverability so you might have to lean on SftS to get onto backline objectives and things like that.

[XeonDragon]

Hey Alcyon

 

Thanks for your feedback! I have the captain for re-rolls, but I was also thinking of running a chaplain with master of sanctity to take advantage of the soon-to-be-replaced rule that plasma blow up on a roll of 1, rather than a natural roll of 1. That is, pop off recitation of focus and overcharge with joy :)

 

I was thinking the grav pod would be good to grab early objectives, with combi-plasma on the sergeant, the armorium cherub, master artisans and the strats then that squad it means around 15 unsaved wounds vs MEQ and almost 10 against VEQ. I am a bit worried about the 'glass cannon' aspect of it however. Still...they'd have to remove the drop-pod to claim the objective, wouldn't they?

 

I'll have a closer look at preg-gram strats. My thinking with the veteran intercessors was to try and get at least deal a few wounds back when whatever space wolves/blood angle/black templar etc. melee unit tries to massacre them, to leave less for the other units to handle via shooting. Sorry, TL'DR - use them to screen melee units and hopefully take a model or two off them before they die.. 

 

In terms of secondaries, I usually go engage on all fronts, assassinate or slay the warlord (+1 hit and wound vs characters in tactical from RG successor is gold!). My local meta is marine heavy, but there is an emerging trend of people taking spearhead detachment and loading up on heavies and vehicles. So - with TAC in mind - trying to have enough anti-tank to at least put up a fit to a list with a couple of heavy tanks etc. Other than that, I then pick secondaries based on the mission/opponent.   

 

In terms of eradicators, I've only got one unit built and painted, otherwise I'd agree and look to take a second over the quad las predator. I think I'll rule out the plasma inceptors, unless I can find a way to turn the captain or a chaplain into a jump model in the points budget.

 

Thanks again for your excellent ideas and observations! 

 

Hey Xeon - I'd say the Hellblasters and Inceptors are out if you don't have a Captain to run them with, the risk of overcharge is pretty huge without re-rolls though I guess Master Artisans is a little help. You could run the Hellblasters with the Dreadnought and use the stratagem when you overcharge, that's an option since they have similar movement profiles and the dread can offer some melee discouragement. 

 

Grav pod is certainly the most competitive option I'd say. I think the Predator might have trouble getting LoS to the targets it wants and for the points you'd be better off using Eradicators with SftS.

 

I'd be careful with the pre-game stratagem upgrades; by my count you're down to 7 CP before the game starts which is a little tight if you want to use Gravitic Amplification and Wisdom of the Ancients etc. on top of things that'll come up. Stranglehold is a good thing to consider too. Veteran Intercessors might not be too impactful if you expect them to get charged by a unit they'll have trouble overwhelming in combat (T5, 2+ saves, etc. anything like that.)

 

Have you given any thought to which Secondaries you want to pick and your strategy for scoring them? Your list is pretty light on maneuverability so you might have to lean on SftS to get onto backline objectives and things like that.

[jpwyrm]

Very unusual list there, it looks quite interesting to play! I would definitively recommend Grav Devastator in a pod for your last points. They are extremely useful in most situations, even if they get shot on arrival! Happened to me in my last game against Eldar, lost three of the five to Xenos version of Auspex Scan. Even then, with Cherub and Grav Amplification, they managed to strip 8 wounds of a Falcon and made a nuisance of themselves for the remainder of the game.

 

Consider Master of Ambush for your second Warlord Trait on your captain or give it to your lieutenant - being able to reposition the Aggressors or Eradicators is quite valuable in my experience.

 

As for CPs, I usually begin the game with 6-7 and never felt like I would have wanted more. The fact you get 1 additionnal CP per turn now really helps with situationnal Stratagems like Grav Amplification, Fury of the First for your Terminators, etc.

 

Edit : just realized that you would still have 10 pts left after adding the Devastator Squad in which case I would suggest either changing one of the Intercessor Squad to Incursor for Concealed Positions, or adding Teleport Homers to your Terminator Squads for movement shenanigans.

Edited October 2, 2020 by jpwyrm

[Alcyon]

No worries! Glad to try and be helpful.

 

 

I have the captain for re-rolls, but I was also thinking of running a chaplain with master of sanctity to take advantage of the soon-to-be-replaced rule that plasma blow up on a roll of 1, rather than a natural roll of 1. That is, pop off recitation of focus and overcharge with joy

 

I figured the Captain would be on his own since he's a smash build, you wouldn't want him having to hang back to support the Hellblasters but on second look I realize he hasn't got a jump pack. So that should be fine. I've been playing with the unmodified re-rolls already, I didn't realize it was still legal to modify your 1s!

 

 

I was thinking the grav pod would be good to grab early objectives, with combi-plasma on the sergeant, the armorium cherub, master artisans and the strats then that squad it means around 15 unsaved wounds vs MEQ and almost 10 against VEQ. I am a bit worried about the 'glass cannon' aspect of it however. Still...they'd have to remove the drop-pod to claim the objective, wouldn't they?

 

I think if you get second it'll be hard to use the pod to grab objectives because it has to be 9" away. If your opponent ignores an objective turn 1 then you can certainly drop there, but there's no guarantee your Grav Devs will have LoS to any valid targets if they consider that risk and position accordingly. I think you should probably plan to have to land the pod wherever you can with good firing angles that isn't screened out, and that might preclude you using it to take an objective.

 

 

I'll have a closer look at preg-gram strats. My thinking with the veteran intercessors was to try and get at least deal a few wounds back when whatever space wolves/blood angle/black templar etc. melee unit tries to massacre them, to leave less for the other units to handle via shooting. Sorry, TL'DR - use them to screen melee units and hopefully take a model or two off them before they die.. 

 

If they're getting charged by a dedicated melee unit it's likely they'll get wiped before they even get to attack back, or at least reduced in numbers which really hurts their effectiveness on the swingback even with Veterancy. Been playing some Veterans of my own and I think I'll need to go up to a 10-man squad to make the best use of the stratagems they open up (Rapid Fire, Gene-wrought Might, Death to the Traitors etc.) - I don't think more than 1 Veteran squad is really worth it and IMO I don't think 5-man units are either, you spend so much CP on stratagems for them with little return.

 

 

In terms of secondaries, I usually go engage on all fronts, assassinate or slay the warlord (+1 hit and wound vs characters in tactical from RG successor is gold!). My local meta is marine heavy, but there is an emerging trend of people taking spearhead detachment and loading up on heavies and vehicles. So - with TAC in mind - trying to have enough anti-tank to at least put up a fit to a list with a couple of heavy tanks etc. Other than that, I then pick secondaries based on the mission/opponent.   

 

How do you tend to score EoAF? You do have some combat troops who can eventually charge into other quarters, but otherwise your mobility is pretty tight. Unless you have had good experiences earning 10 VP or more on that Secondary I might reconsider it with this list. I also get nervous about Slay the Warlord since people can always try and hide it to deny you a bunch of VP; the Executioner rounds are so much less impactful than the Mortis.

 

I think with your A/T firepower Bring It Down is a good option like you said if you see enough tanks to score it highly, but I would strongly consider something like Raise the Banners or something to make use of the small infantry units you've got. Without a flyer or Concealed Positions you might struggle to get something like EoAF or Linebreaker and those are some of the easiest ones to score if you have the models to support them.

 

 

In terms of eradicators, I've only got one unit built and painted, otherwise I'd agree and look to take a second over the quad las predator. I think I'll rule out the plasma inceptors, unless I can find a way to turn the captain or a chaplain into a jump model in the points budget.

 

Sounds good to me. I think jpwyrm's suggestion of Master of Ambush is a great one, that'd help you get the Aggressors onto an objective where their T5 and strong overwatch can help hold it, and allow you to take a forward table quarter for EoAF.

[XeonDragon]

Thanks for all the great suggestions guys!