New Chaplain Abilities

[Charlo]

That is... Uhh, WOW. Nice tech there for sure.

 

2CP for an on demand buff post movement is hella cool.

 

Another thing you could do - use the Strat at the start of the fight phase, once you know your units are engaged and in-range.

[Karhedron]

2 CPs for guaranteed success and out-of-sequence chanting is very good. Each Strat is limited to once per phase so you could pop it at the end of the Movement phase for Canticle of Hate and then again at the start of combat for a melee-buff Litany.

 

Expensive but potentially worth it.

[Kallas]

Remember, if they're a Master of Sanctity with the Wise Orator Warlord Trait then it only costs 1CP for them to use!

 

 

2 CPs for guaranteed success and out-of-sequence chanting is very good. Each Strat is limited to once per phase so you could pop it at the end of the Movement phase for Canticle of Hate and then again at the start of combat for a melee-buff Litany.

Expensive but potentially worth it.

 

One thing worth remembering for this is, "Select one Adeptus Astartes Chaplain unit from your army that has not recited a litany this turn."

 

So each Chaplain will only be able to use Commanding Oratory once each turn, but you could have, say, three Chaplain spamming out Space Marine Mass!

Edited October 19, 2020 by Kallas

[TheNewman]

Regardless of what it allows Mr. Chappy to chant, being able to chant after Disembarking or Teleporting is a huge benefit. I'm not 100% sure that's a bigger deal than "chant whatever you want" would be (assuming that doesn't get errata-ed out) but it does take Terminator chappies and foot-sloggers in transports from aggressively bad up to playable.

[momerathe]

Yes. I had been hemming and hawing about what character I wanted to run my Impulsor Bladeguard with, but I think this has solved that particular issue.

 

Now the only question is whether the Master of Sanctity upgrade & warlord trait is worth it. You'll get the CP back for a single use of the strat, so it seems like a good deal to me.

[Karhedron]

I think the WLT is definitely worth it. The +1 to chant is great when you can chant 2 litanies per turn as it halves the chance of you failing.

[Riddlesworth]

Benediction of Fury is incredible and it’s tempting to run a smashlain with that.

I was all in on a Benediction smash chaplain until the Vox Espiritum wording change allowing litanies.

 

If you've played against harlequins with their auras lately, 9 inches is MASSIVE and I think there's definitely some competition for the relic slot on him

Edited October 19, 2020 by Riddlesworth

[Alcyon]

There's also the issue of the mismatch between Outrider output and the Chaplain's if using Benediction of Fury. The pairing is best optimized for crushing a unit of 10 GEQ or maybe 5 Immortals in combat and taking over their objective (they only kill ~3 Primaris on average on the charge, 4.3 if they get to shoot), and against those targets Str 6 AP2 D3 is overkill. Whereas if you're running a Chaplain alongside Terminators or Aggressors, the statline is much stronger against targets power fists are good against. 

 

Vox Espiritum is an interesting one; 9" is a large radius but you have to ask what kind of setup maximizes it. Most of the litanies only affect one unit anyway, so really you're looking at Litany & Canticle of Hate. I suppose for something like BA you might be in situations where you have multiple units up to 9" apart where you're trying to orchestrate a charge and/or re-roll all melee hits, but it'll be of rare utility in most other chapters I would guess.

[Riddlesworth]

Vox Espiritum is an interesting one; 9" is a large radius but you have to ask what kind of setup maximizes it. Most of the litanies only affect one unit anyway, so really you're looking at Litany & Canticle of Hate. I suppose for something like BA you might be in situations where you have multiple units up to 9" apart where you're trying to orchestrate a charge and/or re-roll all melee hits, but it'll be of rare utility in most other chapters I would guess.

Chapter specific litanies for those that still have them. Specifically white scars. That's a long leash for those outriders and potentially tagging other combats.

 

Really good point about benediction with outriders though - the profile tends not to match and mantra of strength exists if you still have need for 3D

[Alcyon]

Good point about chapter-specific litanies, we'll have to see if those survive in the supplements. I hope so, I think they're pretty fluffy.

 

I'm actually really stuck between a Chaplain and a Librarian for leading my Aggressors for that reason, 5+ invuln is a big help but adding +1 to wound on flamers and re-roll all those powerfist attacks is big on top of the powerful relic.

[Dracos]

9 inch radius would have been useful last week when I was trying to buff Aggressors charging 2" on one side and +1 to wound Eliminators on the other :)

[Riddlesworth]

Good point about chapter-specific litanies, we'll have to see if those survive in the supplements. I hope so, I think they're pretty fluffy.

 

I'm actually really stuck between a Chaplain and a Librarian for leading my Aggressors for that reason, 5+ invuln is a big help but adding +1 to wound on flamers and re-roll all those powerfist attacks is big on top of the powerful relic.

Yeah its a tough choice. Chaplain buffs offensive output, librarian keeps them around longer. Also depends on chapter and how much you want to invest in that aggressor blob. White scars and salamanders have great buffs for aggressors and with tome of malcador could pick up psychic fortress as well.

 

I went with apothecary in the end so my libby could give +2 advance and charge to a bladeguard unit.

 

@dracos - the +1 to wound litanies are single unit target so vox doesn't affect them

[Mandragola]

If you're running aggressors there could potentially be an argument for chaplain and librarian instead of the old captain and lieutenant combo from 8th. You could be giving eradicators +1 to hit and flamer aggressors +1 to wound. It's only really plasma that requires a captain and there's arguably no need to bring it. The chaplain melee reroll aura is now far better for aggressors, bladeguard and terminators than the captain's rerolls.

 

A master of sanctity will know litany of hate and two other litanies. He can chant up the normal two on a 2+ and then use the strat on litany of hate. That's some strong aura goodness and I agree the 9" aura might come in handy with it. It's really something we'd have to try in practice to see the value, and personally I haven't done that.

[momerathe]

He can chant up the normal two on a 2+ and then use the strat on litany of hate. 

 

Unfortunately Commanding Oratory specifies a chaplain who has not chanted a litany this turn.

[Mandragola]

 

He can chant up the normal two on a 2+ and then use the strat on litany of hate. 

 

Unfortunately Commanding Oratory specifies a chaplain who has not chanted a litany this turn.

 

Ahh, so it does. I should remember about things that seem too good to be true.

[_luca_93]

 

 

 

 

He can chant up the normal two on a 2+ and then use the strat on litany of hate.

Unfortunately Commanding Oratory specifies a chaplain who has not chanted a litany this turn.

Ahh, so it does. I should remember about things that seem too good to be true.

Sorry guys, but im not understanding, does commanding oratory, works with a chaplain who recites 0 Litanies, or one less?

[Riddlesworth]

Can only be used for a chaplain who has not yet chanted a litany this round, so while its cheaper for a master of sanctity you also only get 1 litany that round.

 

If your strategy for a chaplain centred around 2 auras - litany of hate, canticle of hate, chapter litanies - vox helps you hit multiple units, which is easier in a mobile battle pile. If you're going for +1 to hit, +1 to wound (shooting or cc), another relic pick like benediction is better. I'm enamoured by having it on the bike chaplain to support 2 outrider units and maybe tag a midfield aggressor unit with canticle of hate but when I start testing it, I may find it just doesn't play out in practice and chuck in benediction for emergency 4D attacks

Edited October 20, 2020 by Riddlesworth

[Mandragola]

Ok, so even though in theory you can use the strat in more than one phase, in reality you can't because your Chaplain would have already done a litany that turn. So the strat can only be used once.

 

This has a few implications I think. If a Chaplain is coming out of a transport or from deep strike, he may as well not be upgraded. There's no way to get him to do two litanies and you don't need him to do them on a 2+, since he won't be rolling anyway. He's probably a good candidate for the 9" aura relic since it means that, even if he fails his own charge, he'll buff other units that succeed.

 

On the other hand a Chaplain on a bike might well want upgrading. He's more likely to make it into melee so it might be more worthwhile to give him Benediction of Fury. You want him to do two litanies successfully, so you want him to succeed on a 2+ and hope you don't get a 1. Even if you do, he's almost certainly doing something useful for you. The vox espiritum might still be better than benediction of fury.

 

Chaplains and other characters can't compete with the hitting power of units, even if you buy them relics. So handing out that reroll to hit aura is almost always the most important thing, I think. A guy on a bike who can advance 20" to put a 9" aura where it's most needed might well be the best option.

[Kallas]

This has a few implications I think. If a Chaplain is coming out of a transport or from deep strike, he may as well not be upgraded. There's no way to get him to do two litanies and you don't need him to do them on a 2+, since he won't be rolling anyway. He's probably a good candidate for the 9" aura relic since it means that, even if he fails his own charge, he'll buff other units that succeed.

 

Well, there's room to have an Master of Sanctity Wise Orator (MoS/WO) Chaplain, and still use Commanding Oratory (CO). For one thing, CO guarantees that a Litany is inspiring, which means that you can 100% plan around its presence, whereas even with WO you might still roll that 1 (and MoS doesn't give you 2+; so even with two Litanies, you've got a roughly 55% chance of one of the two Litanies failing, per turn!); that's especially important for Canticle of Hate for making those Deep Strike charges much more likely.

 

Similarly, if the MoS is being Deep Struck in themselves, then CO allows them to pop a Litany when they otherwise wouldn't be able to at all. It's worth noting that an MoS/WO is still worth having, even if the game plan is DS them in; they'll still have more options later in the game, and it makes CO cheaper on the initial drop.

 

It's nice that there is some actual nuance to this: there are definitely situations where you might want an upgraded MoS/WO using CO instead of their 2+ when it's really important to get something working; similarly it's not always worth it because you might need the CP, or you might need both Litanies going off.

[chapter master 454]

Want to applaud GW for a bit of rule tightening: you can't use it at the start of the command phase however the others are fine (Movement, Psychic, Shooting, Charge, Fight, Morale) which means it isn't possible to use it to ensure 1 litany fires then go for a near sure second litany. The Stratagem actually has trade-offs strategically: You can have ether one sure-fire Litany, no odds of failure unless the opponent uses some form of counter-strat (and even then if you know about it depending on what it is you may have multiple phases to fire it off so matters little really) or you can attempt to have 2 litanies with good odds of firing but there is risk.

Just a quick applause for some decent rule writing.

 

As for chaplains, there is a lot to unpack in various directions, Chaplain Smash is a real thing with the new biker variant as he rocks a Toughness of 5, the movement of a bike AND he has a monsterous 7 wounds. By all accounts he could take the relic crozius, be a salamander (successor) and get 2+ strength from the trait, chant strength and now he be swinging a strength 10 crozius with damage 4 I believe. Alternatively if you want to be a troll with making his a tank, you can get him to toughness 7, 9 wounds with a 6+++ and a once off 3++ (Forge Master, Iron Resolve and Armour Indomintus) which even with taking that all as a defence package that makes him like a Contemptor dreadnought who got into the techmarines reserve of special lubricant oil, he hits fairly hard due to the crozius buffs and he can even still run around with the Mantra of Strength to improve it further (strength 8 and damage 3, thats like an old thunder hammer without the debuff!).

 

Alternatively. Gimmick it up and use the new Emperor's Judgment relic with the reiver lieutenant side kick. Take fear made manifest and boom, the biggest morale gimmick duo in history! Add in the custom trait fearsome aspect and now you have a duo that reduces leadership by 4, any morale checks are done on 2D6 drop the lowest and all attrition checks are now by default 1/3 failure rate (and goes to 1/2 if the enemy unit is under half strength). Just mentioning this because I find it a fun gimmick to think about...

[Riddlesworth]

Alternatively if you want to be a troll with making his a tank, you can get him to toughness 7, 9 wounds with a 6+++ and a once off 3++ (Forge Master, Iron Resolve and Armour Indomintus) which even with taking that all as a defence package that makes him like a Contemptor dreadnought who got into the techmarines reserve of special lubricant oil, he hits fairly hard due to the crozius buffs and he can even still run around with the Mantra of Strength to improve it further (strength 8 and damage 3, thats like an old thunder hammer without the debuff!)..

Forge master, salamanders mantle and iron res9lve works out better on the math I believe. Salamander bike captains have been heinous for that

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I'm going to run a the Master of Sanctity (either Terminator or Jump pack) with Canticle of Hate and Exhortation of Rage. He'll also have the Crusader's Helm for +3 range on Canticle, and the ability to place a unit in the Assault Doctrine. He can then Deep Strike and recite Canticle. I don't mind losing Exhortation for a turn to almost guarantee the charge.

 

Then I can also run Grimaldus as a buffing Chaplain with Fervent Acclamation and Litany of Divine Protection. Grim not having Master of Sanctity anymore is really useful, and having the Crusader's Helm means the Vox is free for a Primaris Apothecary. If Grim is within 6" of the Apothecary, and the Litanies go off, I gain a 9" 6+++

Edited October 21, 2020 by Brother Adelard