New Space marine Codex and DA

[solarisqc]

With the release of many video, showing the new codex i think it's time to make a new topic about the impact on armies building for the DA player.

 

Highlight

 

Acces to all unit except Vanguard and Sternguard

SM aircraft don't get the Ravenwing keyword but you can take them without restriction.

Centurion is the only infantry unit without the CORE keyword

All Biker squad have the CORE keyword

Landspeeder and Storm Speeder don't have the CORE keyword

Apothicary now give a 3'' aura 6+++ to infantry and biker unit

Primaris Lieutenant is only 1 datasheet for all option, but can take 2 for 1 slot, only DA can have the option for plasma pistol and can't have the Deathwing keyword

 

Warlord Trait: Rite of War allow all CORE and Character within 6'' to have objective secure (will be awesome for Deathwing and Ravenwing only list)

 

Unit with Deathwing keyword:

All model with terminator armor and all Librarian

Bladeguard Ancient

Bladeguard Veteran (squad of 3-6)

Strange mention of Terminator ancient can be taken without taking a slot if your detachement included a Deathwing command squad

Hammerfall Bunker have the Angel of Death rules so it have DA chapter tactic always active (hitting on 3+ if undamaged down to 5+ at 1-3W)

 

Unit with Ravenwing keyword

Captain on bike

Primaris Chaplain on bike

Bike squad (now with 3 W)

Attack Bike (stay at 4W)

Primaris Outrider (squad size is 3)

Invader ATV (squad of 1-3)

Landspeeder are now 3 type (standard, tornado and typhoon) and are limit to squad of 1-3

All stormspeeder variant

 

Command squad:

Have a rule to protect character for be target if within 3'' of any model in the squad

1 Company veteran squad don't take slot if your detachement included a captain

can have 1 apothecary, 1 company champion and 1 company ancient without taking a slot if you have a company veteran squad

 

There is alot more, i just try to focus on armies buildup. We have to wait for the DA FAQ for more details on all our special unit.

 

Realy nice codex review here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szpoz-jD4ms

 

Core change in the DA codex FAQ:

 

Special mention for stratagem: Only included Stratagem from ROTD, Evasive assault, High speed foccus, Stand firm, Combined Assault, Outnumber but never outmatched, Honored by the rock and Full Throttle.

 

No mention of any Stratagem from Codex dark Angel, may be a mistake, need a FAQ/errata

 

Inner circle: still fearless, can fall back if engage with FALLEN and need a leadership test on 2d6 to fall back except for VEHICULE, CHAPTER MASTER or RAVENWING. Also it give wounded on 4+ on all infantry model (transhuman physiology build-in).

 

Jinx: 5++ against ranged if move, 4++ if advance

 

Interogator chaplain Aura of dread is 6'' aura ennemy count at half strength

 

Azreal: personal watcher in the dark 1 per battle deny the witch test, reroll if Chaos psyker, Lion helm is 4++ vs range only, Lion's wrath is bolter: s4 ap -1 D2, Plasma S8, ap -4, D2 and can't be overcharge

 

Belial: Chapter master but for Deathwing unit only

 

Samael: Chapter master but for Ravenwing unit only,

Corvex: Mastercraft Plasma Canon: Heavy D3 blast S8, AP -4 D2 and can't be overcharge

No speeder profile

 

Asmodai: Exemplar of Hate is +1 for the roll and 3'' for the aura, Blade of reason: 1 attack with it, S+1 ap 0 2d3 damage

 

Talon Master: M18'' WS2 and BS2, T6, 8W can take 2 for single HQ slot, No escape is target 1 ennemy unit in command phase, no cover save ifor ravenwing unit in 6'' aura, exploded on 6 but 3'' for 1 MW

 

Lazarus: Keep is ability to fight when kill even if he have fight before.

 

Deathwing Terminator: nothing special but not teleport homer, watcher in the dark 1 per battle deny the witch test, reroll if Chaos psyker

 

Deathwing Apo, Champion: clasic rules change in line with Space marine, halberd o caliban is S3 Ap -3 D2 and +3 attack against unit of 10+ model, the 3 attack must be assign to the unit of 10, no Ancient so use the one in codex space marine

 

Deathwing Knight: WS2,  watcher in the dark 1 per battle deny the witch test, reroll if Chaos psyker

 

Deathwing Command Squad (2-5 model): free choice if armies include Terminator captain, An unluck free Deathwing Apo, Champion and Banner. Bodyguard rules to proteck character at 3'' of any model from be targeted

 

Ravenwing Apo, Champion and Ancient: free choice for each blacknight unit, Cpampion have MC power sword (s+1 ap-3 D2), Banner is only shoot or fight on 4+ but it affect DA core unit

 

Blacknight: No body guard rules, Corvus hammer is S+1 Ap-1, D2 no special rules

 

Darkshroud: no change

 

Vengeance: Plasma storm Battery is Heavy 2d3 blast, S8 ap -3 D2, overcharge is S9 ap -3 D3 and natural 1 is 1 MW

 

Dark Talon: lose strafing run, 11W, Stasis bomb is d3 MW and target unit can't fall back, Rift talon is d3 shot, S12  and if hit is d3 MW

 

Nephilim Jetfighter: lose strafing run but +1 to hit vs aircraft, 11w, avenger mega bolter is  heavy 10, S5 ap -1 D2, Blacksword Missile is same but +2 D vs aircraft

 

source: GW DA codex updated

 

Edited: add change from DA codex updated

Edited October 5, 2020 by solarisqc

[WrathOfTheLion]

For the Primaris Lieutenants, I think we might see a separate Deathwing Lieutenant datasheet in the supplement. I don't see how they could make only the bladeguard lieutenant part deathwing. We'll have to see later though.

 

The Deathwing command squad for the ancient is very similar to the other command squad rules they showed prior in the video. The terminator ancient will replace the deathwing ancient, but it means things like the Deathwing champion and the Deathwing Apothecary can be included to only take one slot. They might end up needing to be 'attached' to a Deathwing knight squad, not certain, will need to look back at how the normal command squad works.

 

Inside the supplement, I think we'll see a Ravenwing command squad ability to similarly aggregate the Ravenwing Champion, Apothecary and Ancient.

 

We might see later as well some way to 'purchase' the Deathwing keyword on certain units, or otherwise modify them, like Venerable Dreadnoughts, etc.

Edited October 3, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Master Sheol]

Finally after AGES RW has access to a generic master on bike

[Interrogator Stobz]

I'm happily seeing Cenobium Knights coming straight in unconverted as Relic TDA, their plasma blasters are no longer a barrier.

I was going to convert them to DW Knights with some shields I have spare, but don't need to now....

...until the 2021 supplement wrecks that plan ofc. :D

...edit... oops, Sgt only.

Back to plan A

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think you should convert them as Deathwing Knights anyways, at their level of ornamentation, that's what they should be I think.

 

I'm thinking Deathwing and Ravenwing might end up gaining quite a bit. Especially if you want to have some of everything, there is a ton of expansion coming in for both of those. I'm interested to see what they do with those.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Me too; plenty of potential for our special DA units, but we'll have to wait and see ofc.

[ValourousHeart]

Landspeeder are now 3 type (standard, tornado and typhoon) and are limit to squad of 1-3

 

I don't mind them being separate data sheets.  I never mix Typhoons with Tornados.  And I think if you are taking a land speeder, why not toss on a second weapon, which is often superior to equivalent point weapons that you could add elsewhere.  Or from the other perspective, the points you are spending on this one weapon speeder could be spent beefing up other units more than what a single heavy bolter / multi-melta unit would bring.

 

I'm kind of torn on how I feel about the change in squadron size.  I built my 3 squadrons as units of 4 speeders, and I put matching plastic bits on them as squad markings.  So changing them to units of 3 won't be as simple as just painting over the squad number and adding a new one.  I would have to risk damaging the models in order to change the squad markings.  So the lazy part of me wants GW to FAQ this back to units of at least 4 for RW.

 

On the other hand I'm enjoying playing Crusade.  Those games right now tend to be 50 power / 1000 points, but that is just because we are only starting out.  All of the players are planning to build up to larger armies.  I'll have to wait and see if the games actually get bigger as we progress.  The rules for Crusade don't allow you to increase the number of vehicles in a unit after the unit has been added to the roster, like you can with infantry and bike units.  So increasing the speeder unit size means forfeiting all of their experience.  And including multiple units of varying size would chew through my RP without giving me much flexibility in how to tailor my force or in taking advantage of the other benefits RP can provide.   All that said a unit of 3 speeders is a lot easier to fit into smaller games.

 

 

 

A little off topic - Last edition we were limited to only 3 copies of any data sheet in a list.  Did that cross over into 9th?  I can't find any mention of that in the Core rules.

Edited October 4, 2020 by ValourousHeart

[UtariOnzo]

The rule of 3 IIRC came from GW tournament recommendations, rather than 8th edition Core rules, and has just stuck as the ‘official’ way to play

[Angel of Solitude]

 

 

Landspeeder are now 3 type (standard, tornado and typhoon) and are limit to squad of 1-3

I don't mind them being separate data sheets. I never mix Typhoons with Tornados. And I think if you are taking a land speeder, why not toss on a second weapon, which is often superior to equivalent point weapons that you could add elsewhere. Or from the other perspective, the points you are spending on this one weapon speeder could be spent beefing up other units more than what a single heavy bolter / multi-melta unit would bring.

 

I'm kind of torn on how I feel about the change in squadron size. I built my 3 squadrons as units of 4 speeders, and I put matching plastic bits on them as squad markings. So changing them to units of 3 won't be as simple as just painting over the squad number and adding a new one. I would have to risk damaging the models in order to change the squad markings. So the lazy part of me wants GW to FAQ this back to units of at least 4 for RW.

A Max squadron size of 3 is the same as the 8th Ed Space Marine codex, and as you point out, Ravenwing had a max squadron size of 5. We may see this return in the Dark Angels supplement, but one thing I will say about taking lots of Speeders is that they make for an easy secondary choice for your opponent as they have the VEHICLE keyword.

 

More importantly however, it appears that regular Land Speeders are up to T6! Always bugged me that they had the same toughness as a bike and a lower toughness than the Talonmaster and Sableclaw.

[Gederas]

A little off topic - Last edition we were limited to only 3 copies of any data sheet in a list.  Did that cross over into 9th?  I can't find any mention of that in the Core rules.

The rule of 3 IIRC came from GW tournament recommendations, rather than 8th edition Core rules, and has just stuck as the ‘official’ way to play

Rule of 3 is in the core rules now, yes.

[Berzul]

Anything on the codex anyone has seen about our unique units? Darkshroud? Vengeance?

[WrathOfTheLion]

Anything on the codex anyone has seen about our unique units? Darkshroud? Vengeance?

They are not in the Space Marine codex at all. They will be in our supplement, which is to be released next year sometime.

 

Until then, we will use FAQs in combination with some of our previous publications I think.

[Master Sheol]

 

Anything on the codex anyone has seen about our unique units? Darkshroud? Vengeance?

They are not in the Space Marine codex at all. They will be in our supplement, which is to be released next year sometime.

 

Until then, we will use FAQs in combination with some of our previous publications I think.

 

January not "sometimes"

They will release two codexes/supplements per month so november and december will be supplements BA SW DW and codex DG and january will be supplement DA and one codex for xenos (as stated by GW)

I have spoken

[WrathOfTheLion]

 

 

Anything on the codex anyone has seen about our unique units? Darkshroud? Vengeance?

They are not in the Space Marine codex at all. They will be in our supplement, which is to be released next year sometime.

 

Until then, we will use FAQs in combination with some of our previous publications I think.

 

January not "sometimes"

They will release two codexes/supplements per month so november and december will be supplements BA SW DW and codex DG and january will be supplement DA and one codex for xenos (as stated by GW)

I have spoken

 

I don't remember if they specified January so I left it generic, but yeah, it should be first up next year. So perhaps that was a bit misleading. Went back and checked though, it only says 'early' next year, so it could end up in February or something depending on if they focus on AoS or another game for January.

 

I agree that any delay into 2021 is just from the release schedule, my math adds up as such as well, so one of the SM supplements would have to have been pushed to 2021 due to how they typically market things.

Edited October 4, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Master Sheol]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anything on the codex anyone has seen about our unique units? Darkshroud? Vengeance?

They are not in the Space Marine codex at all. They will be in our supplement, which is to be released next year sometime.

 

Until then, we will use FAQs in combination with some of our previous publications I think.

January not "sometimes"

They will release two codexes/supplements per month so november and december will be supplements BA SW DW and codex DG and january will be supplement DA and one codex for xenos (as stated by GW)

I have spoken

I don't remember if they specified January so I left it generic, but yeah, it should be first up next year. So perhaps that was a bit misleading. Went back and checked though, it only says 'early' next year, so it could end up in February or something depending on if they focus on AoS or another game for January.

 

I agree that any delay into 2021 is just from the release schedule, my math adds up as such as well, so one of the SM supplements would have to have been pushed to 2021 due to how they typically market things.

The delay is due to CoVid

They are late of 2/3 month due to the quarantine

I guess the initial schedule was codex SM and 4 supplements before Endo of 2020

I dont think GW will leave DA players without supplement for si long this is why i think that January will be the right time

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Just from looking at the highlights looks like the Dark Angels are getting some good stuff this edition. I really hope the supplement is great for us too. 

[Ishagu]

The Chapter Tactic is so much better now.

 

I think it will go really well if you take the Heavy Intercessors as troops and sit them on objectives.

 

Durable troops to hold the table and shoot effectively at range.

[WrathOfTheLion]

 

I dont think GW will leave DA players without supplement for si long this is why i think that January will be the right time

I agree, however one should err on the side of caution. If GW hasn't declared a date, then 'sometime early next year' is the only correct statement. It would not surprise me at all if they pushed it past the month of January, from any various set of marketing decisions they might make.

 

 

The Chapter Tactic is so much better now.

 

I think it will go really well if you take the Heavy Intercessors as troops and sit them on objectives.

 

Durable troops to hold the table and shoot effectively at range.

The chapter tactic is significantly better, it is something it needed. I am mostly interested in the melee aspects to it. Doing things like seizing objectives early and possibly forcing the opponent into a charge could end up quite fluffy and do well I think, as well as that many of our characters, psychic powers, etc. have a quite strong melee focus. Might not be the most optimal, but should provide some decent bonuses to more fluff focused loadouts, such as focusing on swords and the more knightly aesthetic.

 

It is going to be a few months before we see it all pan out, but Bladeguard being Deathwing could be extremely beneficial as well, if they maintain the strategem, relic, etc. support they have now.

 

I do hope they can get a Watcher in the Dark, the bladeguard should have our little robed friends following them too.

Edited October 5, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Master Sheol]

 

 

I dont think GW will leave DA players without supplement for si long this is why i think that January will be the right time

I agree, however one should err on the side of caution. If GW hasn't declared a date, then 'sometime early next year' is the only correct statement. It would not surprise me at all if they pushed it past the month of January, from any various set of marketing decisions they might make.

 

The Chapter Tactic is so much better now.

 

I think it will go really well if you take the Heavy Intercessors as troops and sit them on objectives.

 

Durable troops to hold the table and shoot effectively at range.

The chapter tactic is significantly better, it is something it needed. I am mostly interested in the melee aspects to it. Doing things like seizing objectives early and possibly forcing the opponent into a charge could end up quite fluffy and do well I think, as well as that many of our characters, psychic powers, etc. have a quite strong melee focus. Might not be the most optimal, but should provide some decent bonuses to more fluff focused loadouts, such as focusing on swords and the more knightly aesthetic.

 

It is going to be a few months before we see it all pan out, but Bladeguard being Deathwing could be extremely beneficial as well, if they maintain the strategem, relic, etc. support they have now.

 

I do hope they can get a Watcher in the Dark, the bladeguard should have our little robed friends following them too.

Unfortunately they will not cause the WitD is attached only to squads that have it in their box so just DWT and DWK

DW relic terminators don't have it cause in their box is not present

Like teleport homers that are available only to vanilla terminators cause in the DW, Tartaros and cataphractii boxes it is not include

I know it is really dumb but this is how GW write rules now

[ValourousHeart]

 

A little off topic - Last edition we were limited to only 3 copies of any data sheet in a list.  Did that cross over into 9th?  I can't find any mention of that in the Core rules.

The rule of 3 IIRC came from GW tournament recommendations, rather than 8th edition Core rules, and has just stuck as the ‘official’ way to play

Rule of 3 is in the core rules now, yes.

 

Do you have a page number?  Or which FAQ it is in?

 

 

 

 

Landspeeder are now 3 type (standard, tornado and typhoon) and are limit to squad of 1-3

I don't mind them being separate data sheets. I never mix Typhoons with Tornados. And I think if you are taking a land speeder, why not toss on a second weapon, which is often superior to equivalent point weapons that you could add elsewhere. Or from the other perspective, the points you are spending on this one weapon speeder could be spent beefing up other units more than what a single heavy bolter / multi-melta unit would bring.

 

I'm kind of torn on how I feel about the change in squadron size. I built my 3 squadrons as units of 4 speeders, and I put matching plastic bits on them as squad markings. So changing them to units of 3 won't be as simple as just painting over the squad number and adding a new one. I would have to risk damaging the models in order to change the squad markings. So the lazy part of me wants GW to FAQ this back to units of at least 4 for RW.

A Max squadron size of 3 is the same as the 8th Ed Space Marine codex, and as you point out, Ravenwing had a max squadron size of 5. We may see this return in the Dark Angels supplement, but one thing I will say about taking lots of Speeders is that they make for an easy secondary choice for your opponent as they have the VEHICLE keyword.

 

More importantly however, it appears that regular Land Speeders are up to T6! Always bugged me that they had the same toughness as a bike and a lower toughness than the Talonmaster and Sableclaw.

 

That extra pip of toughness will be welcome.

 

For me, speeders don't give up secondary points as easily as most people think.  Or at least they didn't in 8th.  In 8th, MSU armies were generally designed around taking out 5 MEQ wounds per unit.  Since speeders are +1 T and +1 W over the typical MSU unit, that meant that my opponents would generally end up leaving the damaged speeder on 1-2 wounds, and the squad at full strength as far as return fire was concerned.

 

But because speeders tend to have longer range weapons and much faster movement, I would almost always get the first attack.  I would also keep at range to prevent my opponent from getting rapid fire or melta  bonuses.  Now admittedly I haven't tried speeders on the new table size so I'm not sure how effectively I'll be able to keep social distancing.

[Master Sheol]

Heavy Eradicators or Heavy Hellblasters near a Brilliant Strategist warlord are simply insane

I have a box of hellblasters to build and t

hey will be heavy ones for sure ;)

[Ishagu]

I have a feeling that DA might end up with the best shooting of any Astartes chapter.

 

This is also a big deal because they have some great fast moving units on top.

[Gederas]

I have a feeling that DA might end up with the best shooting of any Astartes chapter.

 

This is also a big deal because they have some great fast moving units on top.

I mean, that's kind of their whole shtick dude. Dark Angels are THE Shooty Marine army  :lol:

[bigtrouble]

Heavy Eradicators or Heavy Hellblasters near a Brilliant Strategist warlord are simply insane

I have a box of hellblasters to build and t

hey will be heavy ones for sure ;)

I have a box of hellblasters too. I think I’m going to try to magnetize the heavy backpack so I can play both heavy and assault. I hope it’s not too janky, will have to see.

[Aeri]

Inner Circle Rule:

"Each time an attack is made against this unit, if this unit has the Infantry keyword, an unmodified wound roll of 1-3 always fails, irrespective of any abilities that the weapon or the model making that attack may have."

 

Seems legit OP to me.