Eradicators vs Multi-melta Attack Bikes

[Closet Skeleton]

Both are core

 

Both have 2 range 24" melta shots

 

Both are T5, 3+ and need 2 2 damage shots to kill

 

Both are power level 6 for a unit of 3

 

Eradicators are Heavy Support and 72% of the cost as well as being able to do infantry only actions and claim cover. Defensively they can spend cp for transhuman physiology and +1 save against damage 1

 

Attack bikes are fast attack, have an extra wound, 9" extra speed plus turbo boost, can split fire, 2 rapid fire bolt gun shots, can't claim cover and can spend cp for -1 to hit them.

 

To be honest as OP as Eradicators seem, especially compared to the nerfed stuff in the codex, I think firstborn are doing alright in this comparison.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Closet Skeleton

[TheNewman]

I don't know, 72% cheaper is a pretty big downside. Multimelta Devastators on the other hand; roughly the same price, T4 W2 vs T5 W3 but can split fire, much better transport options, option to add ablative wounds instead of only taking more big guns, Cherub, and the Sergeant can give one of them a +1 to hit. That seems closer to even than the hyperbole on certain other forums would suggest.

 

(Obviously all of that is with the proviso that I haven't seen specifics on the Dev squad yet.)

[Medicinal Carrots]

I think Closet Skeleton typo'd that bit. They're only 27% cheaper.

[Closet Skeleton]

I think Closet Skeleton typo'd that bit. They're only 27% cheaper.

I miswrote

[Zustiur]

The speed difference accounts for at least some of that %, And when we're talking about melta weapons, speed is important for getting into half range.

Should they be more than 40 points? Yes probably.

Should they be close to 55 points? No.

45 might be about right.

[GreyCrow]

Keep in mind Eradicators have access to 2 Primaris only stratagems in the new Codex :

- Transhuman Physiology (yes, Primaris only now)

- A Gravis Stratagem that increases the Sv against D1 weapons by 1

 

If you want Melta only, the attack bikes will be better simply because they can move from out of range and into range which should avoid tons of damage.

 

The Eradicators should be better as a centerpiece melta unit, although I would be that guy and run 2-3 squads of 3.

Edited October 5, 2020 by GreyCrow

[Medicinal Carrots]

Attack Bikes also have the flexibility that comes with single model units if you want to take them that way. You can fire the 2nd and/or 3rd bike at a different target if the original target already died. Splitting up to claim multiple objectives is also a nice option.

 

Fast Attack is a less crowded force org slot, which is nice for Attack Bikes as well.

[Closet Skeleton]

Keep in mind Eradicators have access to 2 Primaris only stratagems in the new Codex :

- Transhuman Physiology (yes, Primaris only now)

- A Gravis Stratagem that increases the Sv against D1 weapons by 1

I mentioned them in the first post, along with the bikes getting their own -1 to hit defensive boost.

 

14" move is a defence in itself.

 

+1 save against d1 is almost useless to Eradicators. I only see that being at all useful for Aggressors and Heavy Intercessors in melee while only massed Heavy Intercessors really have a chance of getting hit by D1 shooting.

 

I never used Transhuman on T5 models at 2cp unless it was against S10+ multi-damage melee. At 1cp on 5- model units its viable but still far more valuable on T4 units.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Closet Skeleton

[Captain Idaho]

I think Attack Bikes are really strong. They can easily get to within range of their intended targets without needing to invest Command Points (CP) to get those shots off. Eradicators being cheaper than Attack Bikes means nothing if the latter perform their job and the former gets shot dead or charged by jump pack troops before they can do their jobs. Outflanking Eradicators is a necessity for most armies, which costs CP.

 

The Attack Bikes can redeploy to reach other targets too, thus meaning any opponent can't deploy vehicles 2 sides of the table to prevent you from getting the best firing opportunities after your outflanking Eradicators deploy one side.

 

Attack Bikes also have 4 wounds a piece which makes them much more survivable and 3 of them dish out 12 shots a turn with bolters too.

 

Lastly, being Fast Attack means saving on crucial Heavy slots. Most Marines players will go Heavy Support first before thinking about Fast Attack, so taking Eradicators will impact what else you can add to the army without spending CP.

 

If you want Eradicators plus a Repulsor, a Gladiator and a unit of Eliminators (for example, you could go for 2 Gladiatos), you'll need to pay CP for another Detachment.

 

Which means paying points on another HQ at least.

 

So to utilise Eradicators effectively you're now paying for extra HQ at least or else limiting your Heavy Slots. What's more is you're eating into your CPs to use the unit without getting shot (or put them inside a Repulsor at cost).

 

Overall, this seems to be the trend with this Codex. I didn't buy into Primaris but I have empathy for those that did, because many of the choices available are either flat out weaker or impractical in a competitive sense compared to Firstborn choices.

[Blindhamster]

I never used Transhuman on T5 models at 2cp unless it was against S10+ multi-damage melee. At 1cp on 5- model units its viable but still far more valuable on T4 units.

Pretty sure transhuman was only 1 CP now for fewer than 6 models.

[GreyCrow]

@Closet Skeleton : I’m not trying to argue which one is better ;) If you read the rest of my post I mentioned moving in and out of range as a form of survivavibility.

 

They serve different purposes.

[Dracos]

Eradicators synergize better with my Bolter Inceptors but for a non-Raven Guard list I think the Attack Bikes are a good way to go.

 

PS: I am working from the concept of two Patrols where I’ll be using 2 units of 5 Eradicators and Inceptors each.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Dracos

[Karhedron]

I am leaning slightly in favour of the attack bikes but that is partly because Blood Angels love speed and partly because I already own a squadron of 3.

 

Having said that, I think the alpha-strike potential of Multimelta Devs in a Drop pod is a real bonus. Even with the -1 to-Hit, the extra MM shot offsets that and if they survive to shoot a second time (optimistic but not impossible) they get better. In addition, the ablative squad members means the opponent has to chew through quite a few ablative models before you start losing valuable heavy weapons.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Karhedron

[MadGreek]

Not trying to change the thrust of the post - but wouldn't a comparison between the Multi-Melta Invader and MM Attack Bike be more appropriate?

[Closet Skeleton]

Not trying to change the thrust of the post - but wouldn't a comparison between the Multi-Melta Invader and MM Attack Bike be more appropriate?

Thematically maybe, points bracket and wound values no. Invaders are just really inefficient offensively.

[Ishagu]

I just want to say that even if the attack bikes are a superior option in terms of rules, there is no comparison, model wise, between them and the beautiful Eradicators.

[Mandragola]

I just want to say that even if the attack bikes are a superior option in terms of rules, there is no comparison, model wise, between them and the beautiful Eradicators.

This. Whenever I see a Firstborn unit that looks like it might be efficient, I start thinking about how to make one out of Primaris bits.

 

For these I think the best option might be to take an outrider, swap the bolt rifles for a multi melta and put a storm bolter in his hand.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Mandragola

[Captain Idaho]

Aesthetics are important but remember subjective. In the past, folk said the same about Aggressors or Inceptors, or the ATV.

 

Though I must admit the new Gravis looks great.

[Debauchery101]

Aesthetics are important but remember subjective. In the past, folk said the same about Aggressors or Inceptors, or the ATV.

 

Though I must admit the new Gravis looks great.

that atv is and always will be an ugly, blatantly unrealistic engineering nightmare...an ATV with 2 inches of ground clearance and a turret with 2 inches of clearance over the driver...also the gunner can only shoot straight and about 15° to the right because he has a 3 inch thick antenna next to his gun and no room to pivot.

[TheNewman]

I'm seriously contemplating turning the gun mount into a mini-turret and leaving the gunner off altogether.

 

Doesn't fix the ground clearance issue, but the Outriders shouldn't even be able to turn so what the who-ha.

[Medicinal Carrots]

The more I think about it, the more I like Attack Bikes over Eradicators. I don't really use FA for anything else, and am thinking three 2 bike squads would work well. Fun note: you can put 4 bikes in reserves for 1 CP, whereas a 4 man Eradicator squad would take 2.

[Charlo]

Don't sleep on the Bolters on the Attack Bikes, along with the same CC potential as the Eradicators but the means to easily get there means they can blow up tanks and dent infantry.