Mono-Nurgle too reliant on HQ's?

[Seifer]

Hello fellow gamers,

 

I've been running a pure Nurgle Daemon army since the beginning of 9th and have come to the conclusion that in order to make them competitive (and not 3 x GUO spam) i need to fit as many Scriveners, Bilepipers, Poxbringers etc as possible to make the core of the army effective, never mind adding in characters to get some real punch.

 

I know Daemons are not a top tier army, i knew that before i chose them. What i didn't know (or maybe because of user error) is that i need to build the army based on its 'buffs' first before choosing the real (rotten) meat of it. Is this others users experience as well or has Papa Nurgle rotted my brain so much already that i'm missing the obvious?

 

Here is an example of my list in my most recent game (1250 points) and my thoughts as to why i picked what i picked.

 

Battalion

Rotigus - Hella strong caster/denier, big & tough target to draw focus.

Poxbringer w/Virulent Blessing - Secondary caster and the strength buff to Plaguebringers.

Scrivener - Plaguebringer buff.

Plaguebringers (10) X 3 - One-eyed cheerleaders of Big Papi.

 

Patrol

Poxbringer w/Virulent Blessing - Secondary caster and the strength buff to Plaguebringers.

Bilepiper - Nurgling buff and because i love the model.

Nurglings - 1 X 4 bases, 1 X3. Midfield objective hoggers that can tie up enemy units that get too close.75+

4 Plaguedrones - The only quick moving unit that can clog up enemy lines and engage ranged options before they deal too much damage to the Plaguebearers.

 

Thats 585 points tied up with HQ's alone.

 

What are other peoples thoughts?

[WarriorFish]

I don't much that much about Nurgle Daemons, but generally speaking 8th and 9th are built around auras. 9th less so as GW realised it over egged them so it is being reigned in, but for Daemons this is all the more so as the buffs the HQs can bring are a core part of getting the army to work.

 

From a Slaanesh point of view, a Herald turns a S3 Daemonette into a S4 one, that is a huge difference in effectiveness. I imagine the Nurgle buffs are just as critical, along with the other gods. An army and edition built around auras can make for heavy HQ slots...

 

Hopefully when the next Daemons codex comes out it can correct this, but there's a fair list of things that need improvement. Until then making do is what you need - if that involves lots of HQs then so be it! If you can get some results from it that's the main thing

[Seifer]

Ah that makes a lot of sense. I haven't played since 5th/6th so the reliance on aura's is new to me.

 

I am having a lot of fun playing Nurgle and hope to expand to the other gods soon.

[WarriorFish]

It is a very different game to then It favours shooting and numbers more at least Daemons can make something of the latter; the former is one of the main pain points for Daemons sadly.

 

The important thing is you're having fun, what other god are you thinking of trying first? I need to get back into my Daemons but they stalled a little while back when the primer went off on some Daemonettes...

[Seifer]

Part of my is thinking Tzeentch as the Horrors can add some much needed range to the army and can boost the psychic phase even further but, while I love nearly all of the models in the Daemons range, I keep looking at Slaanesh and the lovely new models they got recently (Engine war I think?)

[Dr_Ruminahui]

The new slanneshi models came out before engine war, and weren't timed with any 40K release but instead with an Age of Sigmar drop that also benefited some 40K players.

 

If you like a whole bunch of the demons, no reason you can't field a multi-god force - sure, you'll love the benefits of the various loci, but hopefully your army makes up for that in versatility.   Such an army is also more likely to use and benefit from the summoning rules, which give you even more versatility in terms of what you can bring to the table, as you can bring on pretty much any unit in the codex that shares allegiance with one or more of your characters.  I know, for example, that mono-Tzeench lists have used summoning to a positive effect, as their demons are the most diverse and it lets them bring on whatever unit best addresses whatever problems or needs they have at that point of the game.

[Seifer]

Am i right in saying that with summoning that i just need to leave a portion of points unspent when making a list i.e. in a 2k list i'd spend 1700 leaving 300 left for summoning? And i don't need to declare what i unit i have for summoning until i attempt to summon it? I have read the rules a few times but never actually tried it in a game.

[WarriorFish]

The new Slaanesh models are great, the Fiends in particular along with the KoS being long awaited excellent updates so you'll enjoy them :)

 

You're correct with how summoning works, you can adapt to your needs so long as you have the model to hand. A good idea was something like small/low PL choices that are easily summoned, like summoning a single Fiend to cause some mischief :tu:

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Nurgle isn't as reliant upon buffs as you'd think. They can help amp up the offence of a unit, but defensively and strategy wise, you'll win the game more through putting down tough, annoying units on points and not letting your opponent take them away. I don't play them myself, but I have a friend who faces me with them all the time, and I've had lots of opportunities to watch him play.

 

My advice for 9th would be:

 

Plague Barers are tough, but 10 of them are going to die off surprisingly easily. Unless I'm reading that wrong, you're running 3 squads of 10. I'd swap that fore 1 squad of 30, and keep a plaguecaster behind them. Blast will hurt you a touch more, but that doesn't matter unless people really lean into those weapons, and if you hide them as you walk up the board you should be able to claim the center and hold it for at least a couple crucial turns.

 

Nurglings. Nurglings are your best friends. Taking them in squads of 5, or even more, and using them to claim objectives and get an early lead with secondaries is huge. In your shoes I'd think of those as your points units. They're obnoxious to deal with and take more fire to put away than people expect. They also don't eat any support from the rest of your army as they do their thing, and can regenerate with their new strat.

 

Lastly, I wouldn't take a character to draw fire and be tough. Nurgle characters Can survive fairly well, but that's more a bonus that keeps them aroudn when things go bad rather than their selling point. I'd swap out the big guy for a Nurgle Daemon Prince, and turn him into a wrecking ball that can hop the line, smash something, and be protected by another slice of your army that moves forward to block him. Possibly the Plague Drones.

 

So were I to suggest a list, it'd be 1 Battalion with a Prince and Plaguecaster + one additional HQ of your choice, 1 big blob of Barers, 3 big blobs of Nurglings, and your drones. If you want more HQs, summon them onto the table. Cheap HQs are excellent summons early on, and if you summon psychers they will get to use their powers directly after hitting the table. It also saves you some CP.

 

Summoning was pretty useless in 8th, but I've found keeping points back for my Khorne to drop Skulltaker onto the field for a sneaky 9 inch charge on something, or Karanak for extra denies, has been super helpful. Then again, Khorne is a little more CP thirsty than Nurgle.

Edited October 7, 2020 by Marshal Valkenhayn

[Closet Skeleton]

I know Daemons are not a top tier army, i knew that before i chose them. What i didn't know (or maybe because of user error) is that i need to build the army based on its 'buffs' first before choosing the real (rotten) meat of it. Is this others users experience as well or has Papa Nurgle rotted my brain so much already that i'm missing the obvious?

Then you're wrong, Daemons are pretty high tier according to tournament results. Nurgle used to be top Daemons in 8th but Plague Bearers got nerfed so they don't work so well, currently Slaanesh's speed, cheaper infantry and anti-fall back rules but them on top. On the other hand Nurglings and Great Unlean Ones went up thanks to Engine War and Beasts of Nurgle in large units supposedly have their uses as bullet sponges so more balanced Nurgle armies are viable as opposed to the 90+ plague bearers that used to be the only option.

 

Plague Bearer buffing HQs are expensive because Plague bearers used to be too good. You're better off just bringing more bodies and the characters need a lot of bodies before their buffs actually become efficient. Poxbringers are always good though, their only weakness is only having 3 attacks otherwise they're worth all their points. Sloppity Bilepipers + 90 plague bearers with banners is still going to be obnoxious.

 

Rotigus isn't as good as an Exalted Great Unclean One (Engine War) who can be a lot more durable.

 

Am i right in saying that with summoning that i just need to leave a portion of points unspent when making a list i.e. in a 2k list i'd spend 1700 leaving 300 left for summoning? And i don't need to declare what i unit i have for summoning until i attempt to summon it? I have read the rules a few times but never actually tried it in a game.

 

You have to declare the god before summoning and you have to bring the models, but they function sort of like a sideboard in a trading card game.

 

I fought some half decent Chaos armies in 8th ed tournaments that used summoning.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Closet Skeleton

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Some daemons are top tier. Slaanesh has the speed and points efficiency to be there. Nurgle has been solid throughout due to invuln + FNP across the board. I dunno much about the chickens as nobody plays them in my LGS currently, but Khorne is bad. Points efficiency is in the toilet right now, and it's hard to play the objective game well when you need your troupes to do most of your killing.

 

But roll hot as Nurgle and you can outlast pretty much anyone in the game. Explore your options for mortal wounds through strats and powers, pop your extra damage banners at the right time, and drown them under a mass of low AP middling strength clubbings.

 

Maybe consider some beasts, they're surprisingly points efficient on the survival side, and also have mortal wounds access from a strat.