Index astartes: Deathwatch

[Prot]

I kind of expected access to SIA to be very limited now that we have literally everything in the Marines Codex. After all, Marines plus SIA would just be insane. There had to be a trade off.

well in my mind SIA got a much neede nerf to poison. I’m happy they did that, it makes me feel much less sheepish about blowing away my friend’s monster mash Nids. Lol

 

the trade off in SIA made me feel it would be reasonable to add to Boltrifles. 

 

not only that but we don’t get a super doctrine per say. 

 

BTW am I the only one liking the Infernus Heavy Bolter now?

[Debauchery101]

 

 

I kind of expected access to SIA to be very limited now that we have literally everything in the Marines Codex. After all, Marines plus SIA would just be insane. There had to be a trade off.

well in my mind SIA got a much neede nerf to poison. I’m happy they did that, it makes me feel much less sheepish about blowing away my friend’s monster mash Nids. Lol

 

the trade off in SIA made me feel it would be reasonable to add to Boltrifles.

 

not only that but we don’t get a super doctrine per say.

 

BTW am I the only one liking the Infernus Heavy Bolter now?

no I been scheming on them as well. I have 6 that I was going to use to kit bash some Ambots to centurions...not anymore!hf is 12 inch and hvy bolter dmg 2...why the hell wouldn't we use it now?

 

I'm pretty sure they're going to add SIA to primaris infantry rifles. Maybe not the Hvy Intercessors.

 

I think the poison style ammo isn't bad. It was just kinda crazy with autobolters teleporting in and using bolt storm to slap down anything with flesh. It does really well vs Nids but GW hasn't done anything to help them either..

 

I also like the extended range and dmg 2 shotguns I'm probably going to include 1 or 2, maybe more...2 shots per guy @12 in...I dont understand the crypt clearer shells...I think I'd rather have normal rounds instead since there's no more ignoring cover

Edited October 6, 2020 by Debauchery101

[Kyoujin]

The Intercessor KT doesn't get any of the keywords needed to use Intercessor strategems.  With all that the Veteran KT's have going for them I don't see Intercessor KT's being used at all.  ...maybe to get a 5-man obsec Outrider squad but that's it.

[Master Sheol]

My guess is that the DA BA SW and DW PDFs are placeholders and that the real supplements will be more complex

The total lack of the warlord traits (only the one from C:SM available), specific litanies and psychic powers, units from C:SM without special rules and so on lead me to think that

[leth]

My problem with the Infernus is that it is one weapon, and thus can’t be split fired. In my mind the two weapons it is made of will want to fire at different targets. 
 

it is still very good, just not sure if it is worth giving up the other options for. Especially when we can focus on durability. 

[bortbortbort]

I just realized something and got scared... SIA in the index works for those weapons that are in the vet box and HAVE MODELS (weapons) with the little ammo boxes.

 

No model, no rules.

 

Maybe they actually mean it.

Goooooood that would suck.

[Master Sheol]

I just realized something and got scared... SIA in the index works for those weapons that are in the vet box and HAVE MODELS (weapons) with the little ammo boxes.

 

No model, no rules.

 

Maybe they actually mean it.

Goooooood that would suck.

These PDF are incomplete placeholders until the real supplements will hit the shelves

[Closet Skeleton]

SIA has been changed to make the various options actual trade offs rather than storm shield and storm bolter being all you saw.

 

Personally I always found being able to hose down your opponents with torrents of expential ammo not especially flavourful. DW veterans are supposed to bring a mix of specialised equipment not copy paste one super load out.

 

Primaris gun stat lines + combat doctrines + special issue ammo would be insane. Maybe we'll see a DW primaris upgrade sprue with a unique DW bolt rifle type, would be easy to combine with the way the intercessor kit works.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Closet Skeleton

[bortbortbort]

Then make them one use only or whatever. I'm fine with balancing things, I actually appreciate the hellfire change. But don't asymetrically buff some weapons and not others. It's inconsistent.

 

A SB is 3 points over a bolter, it should be better. Not just different.

 

Same reason I hated the bolter discipline restrictions that favored auto bolt rifles over bolt rifles, while these weapons were balanced vs another without that disparity.

[Charlo]

The Stormbolter was always dumb. Just 100% not very fluffy.

[Prot]

I agree with what everyone is saying about SIA having a very strong function against high toughness... but that's changed. It's not bolter-god-mode anymore. Therefore, I think it's reasonable that we see it modified in the supplement. (I would be completely against this if it still wounded anything without tires on a 2+).

 

The Intercessor KT doesn't get any of the keywords needed to use Intercessor strategems.  With all that the Veteran KT's have going for them I don't see Intercessor KT's being used at all.  ...maybe to get a 5-man obsec Outrider squad but that's it.

 

I don't understand this... are you saying my Intercessor based Kill Teams cannot use Transhuman Physiology? 

 

I will add one thing to this; historically I always ran one Intercessor Kill team with whatever Intercessor bolt rifle you like, and then add in 4 Hellblasters, and 1 Plasma Inceptor. Obviously the reasons for this have changed now, but I think for pure offensive output, it is arguably better now!

[Lemondish]

What are the keywords for Transhuman? I'm not sure what they are, but if it is Primaris Infantry, then it would still work.

 

Anything that triggers on the Intercessor keyword would not work. I think that is the Rapid Fire and Assault Intercessor fight twice Strats, off the top of my head.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Lemondish

[Mobius0288]

 

I will add one thing to this; historically I always ran one Intercessor Kill team with whatever Intercessor bolt rifle you like, and then add in 4 Hellblasters, and 1 Plasma Inceptor. Obviously the reasons for this have changed now, but I think for pure offensive output, it is arguably better now!

 

I agree this kill team is good. Hopefully we maintain the doctrine stratagems to some degree in the supplement. I would say the heavy hellblasters are looking good compared to their previous versions, but a little harder to mix in/justify in a team of intercessors with stalker bolt rifles due to no SIA. Definitely the assault and rapid fire versions will be doing some work.

 

 

The Stormbolter was always dumb. Just 100% not very fluffy.

 

My issue with it is that they made it the same range as a bolter. If there was a range difference, you would design teams to shred at close range vs having all-rounder teams.

 

 

I just realized something and got scared... SIA in the index works for those weapons that are in the vet box and HAVE MODELS (weapons) with the little ammo boxes.

 

No model, no rules.

 

Maybe they actually mean it.

Goooooood that would suck.

 

I've accepted that change as probably permanent when I noticed only kill team cassius and on DW boltguns get SIA. Not even the biker's twin boltguns get SIA anymore. They even renamed the boltgun to say DW botlgun. A bunch of signs IMO, that nothing else will be getting SIA access. It does make wonder if anymore HQs will be getting SIA when the supplement comes out... but we should get access to most relics and warlord traits, assuming they are generic. Probably a few specific faction ones, like Vigilance Incarnate for us.

[RandyB]

My guess is that the DA BA SW and DW PDFs are placeholders and that the real supplements will be more complex

The total lack of the warlord traits (only the one from C:SM available), specific litanies and psychic powers, units from C:SM without special rules and so on lead me to think that

 

Of course its just a placeholder. They called it "get you by" from the announcement of the new Space Marine codex. No one should expect it to be anything else.

[Kyoujin]

I agree with what everyone is saying about SIA having a very strong function against high toughness... but that's changed. It's not bolter-god-mode anymore. Therefore, I think it's reasonable that we see it modified in the supplement. (I would be completely against this if it still wounded anything without tires on a 2+).

 

The Intercessor KT doesn't get any of the keywords needed to use Intercessor strategems.  With all that the Veteran KT's have going for them I don't see Intercessor KT's being used at all.  ...maybe to get a 5-man obsec Outrider squad but that's it.

 

I don't understand this... are you saying my Intercessor based Kill Teams cannot use Transhuman Physiology? 

 

I will add one thing to this; historically I always ran one Intercessor Kill team with whatever Intercessor bolt rifle you like, and then add in 4 Hellblasters, and 1 Plasma Inceptor. Obviously the reasons for this have changed now, but I think for pure offensive output, it is arguably better now!

 

Transhuman Physiology requires only the PRIMARIS keyword so they can still use that.  However the Honor the Chapter strategem requires the ASSAULT INTERCESSOR SQUAD keyword and the Rapid Fire strategem requires either the INTERCESSOR SQUAD or VETERAN INTERCESSOR SQUAD keywords.  The Fortis Killteam currently has no way of obtaining these keywords.

 

This seems weird.  Hopefully the supplement corrects this oversight.

[Raychu]

I have a noob question.

 

Is it possible to add some of the new Kill teams (Proteus, Fortis, Indomitor or Spectrus) in matched play as there are no point cost?

or so we use the point cost in the SM codex?

[Lemondish]

I have a noob question.

 

Is it possible to add some of the new Kill teams (Proteus, Fortis, Indomitor or Spectrus) in matched play as there are no point cost?

or so we use the point cost in the SM codex?

 

You use the points cost at the end of the Index pdf (page 15) for DW specific units, otherwise you use Codex: Space Marines points. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Lemondish

[Debauchery101]

 

 

I agree with what everyone is saying about SIA having a very strong function against high toughness... but that's changed. It's not bolter-god-mode anymore. Therefore, I think it's reasonable that we see it modified in the supplement. (I would be completely against this if it still wounded anything without tires on a 2+).

 

 

The Intercessor KT doesn't get any of the keywords needed to use Intercessor strategems. With all that the Veteran KT's have going for them I don't see Intercessor KT's being used at all. ...maybe to get a 5-man obsec Outrider squad but that's it.

I don't understand this... are you saying my Intercessor based Kill Teams cannot use Transhuman Physiology?

 

I will add one thing to this; historically I always ran one Intercessor Kill team with whatever Intercessor bolt rifle you like, and then add in 4 Hellblasters, and 1 Plasma Inceptor. Obviously the reasons for this have changed now, but I think for pure offensive output, it is arguably better now!

Transhuman Physiology requires only the PRIMARIS keyword so they can still use that. However the Honor the Chapter strategem requires the ASSAULT INTERCESSOR SQUAD keyword and the Rapid Fire strategem requires either the INTERCESSOR SQUAD or VETERAN INTERCESSOR SQUAD keywords. The Fortis Killteam currently has no way of obtaining these keywords.

 

This seems weird. Hopefully the supplement corrects this oversight.

if you were to go to competition you may be able to lawyer your way into being able to use those stratagems in 1 and/or 2 ways

1-stratagem only affects the models that the strat would normally apply to had they been in a full squad.

2- stratagem applies to the units if they are combat squaded in a way that includes only the marine type that strat works for

 

If its casual...bruh..anyone that's been playing the game for a minute as well as with you they should know the stuff GW does..I consider that kinda beardy to not let you play into the grey areas until we get a hard yes or no.

 

I'm also a proponent of regular players testing things that aren't law. Gw doesn't make changes unless people speak up about imbalance. 2 things really suck and discourage people from buying codices/new models..you buy a new codex, scheme and test lists..commit to one and paint it up then

1- they nerf stuff youre using a week or two prior to a tournament

2- you get curbstomped at a tournament by lists/units and a week after those lists/units get nerfed

[Prot]

I think this is going to be heavily debated until we see the Supplement. Let's be thankful it's one of the earlier releases.

[thinkerofuselessthings]

I think this is going to be heavily debated until we see the Supplement. Let's be thankful it's one of the earlier releases.

 

the incomplete nature of our faq update let me hope that Deathwatch will be the first release. 

 

If you compare with other update, deatwatch lacks of stratagems, relics and traits. 

[Lemondish]

I'm all for folks arguing in good faith, and while the rules are clear here, GW themselves definitely failed to keep it consistent so we're pretty much at the mercy of what comes next. It is spelled out directly in the Index with no ambiguity, but then you see an example like Kill Team Cassius and the Teleport Homer and wonder where the disconnect occurred. Edited October 7, 2020 by Lemondish

[Boyadventurer]

Considering this next week has no SM releases, I think it makes sense  that the three supplements will be sprinkled in with the rest of the new kits, as opposed to after the whole line comes out. It makes sense for assault ints and BGV to drop alongside the BA/SW books.

 

We probably are due a battle box before the holidays. If only someone has any information about that they can share?

[Lemondish]

Considering this next week has no SM releases, I think it makes sense  that the three supplements will be sprinkled in with the rest of the new kits, as opposed to after the whole line comes out. It makes sense for assault ints and BGV to drop alongside the BA/SW books.

 

We probably are due a battle box before the holidays. If only someone has any information about that they can share?

 

Question: by 'we', are you referring to the collective group of Warhammer fans, irrespective of faction, or are you specifically meaning that 'we', of the watch, are due a battle box? Asking for a friend. 

[Syward]

 

I think this is going to be heavily debated until we see the Supplement. Let's be thankful it's one of the earlier releases.

 

the incomplete nature of our faq update let me hope that Deathwatch will be the first release. 

 

If you compare with other update, deatwatch lacks of stratagems, relics and traits. 

 

GW has already confirmed that we're going to be one of the 1st supplements released after the Codex. It's going to be out before the end of the year, along with Space Wolves, Blood Angels & Deathguard.

[Black Knight]

I got the last battle box thanks to my local GW store manager at the time. He had found it a year after it was released, somewhere in storage. It was a really good mix of units and I found a use for all of them. Would be great if we had another one again.

 

One thing I did notice with that box was the complete inconsistency of the instruction manuals chucked into it, the terminator ones were particularly useless.

 

In all seriousness right now our new Battlebox is the Vanguard Start Collecting, I will definitely be getting that soon. It has been a while since I have been able to use everything in a Start collecting box, kind of excited to get it.

 

On the subject of the supplement, it better be good because I refuse to buy the standard codex out of principle. Two books when there were just one.