FAQ is out

[Captain Idaho]

Although it would work thematically, would it be fun?

 

I suppose that's a case of Passive Abilities vs active abilities.

 

I have to think new Supplements would be in the works for release over the next year or so alongside Xenos etc as Ultramarines aren't able to fully Crusade and that seems to be 9th's big theme.

[Ishagu]

That's a good point about the Crusade.

 

Part of me wishes that GW would release the classic codex chapters in a single supplement so they all get updated at once.

 

We don't need 20 unique strats, we only need 7/8 good ones and rules to match. The same applied to the other chapters.

 

A bit of lore would be sacrificed, but it would he better for having a compilation of rules and for balance.

I concede that DA, BA and SW have too many unique units to be rolled into a grand supplement.

[Captain Idaho]

I'd agree with you except the selfish Ultramarines fan in me knows Ultramarines would be first so we wouldn't have to wait. ;)

[justicarius6]

Surely the unique factor for Ultramarines is their tactical and strategic mastery? And what better way to represent that than through objective and mission shenanigans and more/better stratagem support? Being able to double up on the use of one strat each turn for example, or more CPs, messing with objectives etc.

[jonjacob]

I'm a big fan of wish listing, might worth make a thread point GW to it for good ideas. While it is there IP getting ultramarines right seems to be a tedious thing for them. 

[Captain Idaho]

The Ultramarines are raised to be warriors since small children, in a culture that leaves the weak children to die on the mountains. The martial pride of Maccragge and surrounding systems (to which they share commonality in culture and governance) is ingrained within the warriors bred there.

 

Strict discipline is expected and martial excellence a by product of their culture. We think of discipline in terms of morale in 40K but in reality it factors in a lot of different aspects of warfare, such as fire discipline, formation adherence and confidence in commander including when in desperate situations.

 

Rules wise shooting into combat for infantry (vehicles not receiving the minus), coordinating shooting, rewards for standing shoulder to shoulder in melee etc all represent these things.

 

Strong individual heroics covers the martial excellence, so perhaps multiple Honoured Sergeant upgrades, the unit hero rules I suggested earlier (+1 wound and attack and a Mastercrafted weapon) for Sergeants to purchase/Strategums and the existing Sons of Guilliman, Avenge the Fallen and Squad Doctrines all contribute to a really characterful set of rules for Ultramarines.

[Ishagu]

One thing that isn't addressed is the fact that the Ultras are often better equipped and supplied than basically any other fighting force.

 

Sgts in the army should be able to msstercraft one of their weapons or something to that effect.

[Blindhamster]

One thing that isn't addressed is the fact that the Ultras are often better equipped and supplied than basically any other fighting force.

 

Sgts in the army should be able to msstercraft one of their weapons or something to that effect.

isn't there a strat for that?

[Prot]

I think there is something generic. I never use it because it costs CP and frankly never really was good enough to waste the CP on.

 

I'm kinda bummed right now. I have 3 marine armies and told myself I'd sell another one off once the dust settled. I have decided that some of these supplements are better written than others. 

 

However, that being said, I've come to start believing the UM (and even WS) supplements won't be updated in the (near) future.  So love it or hate it, I think this is it for a while. I'd love to be wrong about this, but re-reading the documents released for my armies, I think this is it.

[Ishagu]

I'm actually liking the new codex at least. I like how each of the HQ/Character types now has a purpose, how units we had ignored can be reviewed and looked at again.

 

I am indeed very underwhelmed with the Ultras supplement now, however. I too suspect we won't get an update for a while, definitely not this year. If GW can release one I hope they do, even if there are no new models.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Hey everybody I took a week off to play in a local underground tournament and drink a lot. I chose to bring Ultramarines. Here are my current thoughts on my favorite Legion and why I chose to field them.

 

Back during 8th edition we picked up a few tournament wins, mostly by virtue of having the first codex and the incredibly broken original version of Roboute Guilliman. Marines had a rep as being the worst codex and was the butt of many jokes... still Guillaman was universally hated and lots of the haters were people that play other Chapters. His points went up a bit but nothing really significant.

 

Finally at the tail end of Eighth edition geedub in their infernal wisdom decided it was was time to up our game - along came codex 2.0 along with the supplements. Now you would think Ultramarine players would be overjoyed jumping for nirvana... but sadly no. Some were outraged that now Guilloman aura to reroll wounds was only for 1s even though his points were decreased. Some went so far to even declare him unplayable. While the universal hate quickly subsided not so for those internal haters. It just wasn’t good enough our Aggressors could move and double shoot two turns in a row. Hilarity ensues when you ask other Space Marine players how much they’d like to have their own Primarch.

 

Now here is ninth edition. We have a new codex and an errata for our supplement. The FAQ release changes a number of units in the supplement in substantial ways, adds the CORE keyword to others (and adds it to certain abilities and stratagems), and updates some wargear to bring it in line with the new Codex: Space Marines changes, The FAQ also applies the new categories to each of the book’s stratagems and adjusts some text.

 

Guilliman’s Aura suffers fewer changes from its 8th edition version: Guilliman still gives out the old Chapter Master re-roll to units within 6″, though now the effect is limited to UTLRAMARINES CORE and CHARACTER units. This still includes himself, which reduces the potential for bad rolls to stop him from killing something – a problem that marine captains are now vulnerable to. GeeDub also folded in the re-roll 1s to wound part of the aura and limited it to ULTRAMARINES CORE units, keeping it in-line with a Lieutenant’s Tactical Precision aura.

 

Master of battle gets the AURA tag and is otherwise unchanged including NON-CORE units plus it also restores the old iteration of And They Shall Know No Fear on top of the new version, granting marines within 12″ re-rollable morale that ignores all modifiers to combat attrition. Seems pretty tasty to me.

 

Moving onto the best psyker in the game Tigurius’ Master of Prescience ability only hits CORE and CHARACTER units now, otherwise it’s unchanged, activating at the start of the battle round. Tigurius is only 15 points more than a standard chief librarian with masses of upside for the extra investment, incorporating both the Chief Librarian warlord trait and Relic as his baseline kit saving you the hassle of spending trait slots, relic slots, or CP on them.

 

Victrix Honor Guard gained the CORE keyword, and now have the updated bodyguard rule: If they’re within 3 inches of a character with 9 wounds or fewer then that character cannot be targeted with ranged attacks. This applies even if you’re closer to the character than the Honour Guard, and this protects you from abilities that ignore the Look Out Sir! rule! They amazing retain their 3+ invulnerable save – the FAQ points out that their ultima storm shields do not change to match the new profiles – making them one of the only marine units in the game left with a 3++.

 

Tyrannic War Veterans gain the CORE keyword and one extra wound plus their price remains unchanged making them 2 points per model cheaper than Tactical marines.

 

The relic Seal of Oath ability now only applies to CORE and CHARACTER units, but still permits full hit and wound re-rolls however it is no longer locked on one enemy target.

 

The stratagem Inspiring Command increases the range of the model’s aura by 3 inches, to a maximum of 9 inches. Changes in wording do confirm that this interacts with auras provided by relics and warlord traits however, so a Captain or Lieutenant bearing the seal of oath can blanket pretty much your entire army with ease.

 

The Ultramarines’ design philosophy appears to be that the faction can do a bit of everything and do it quite well while other factions tend to be quite one dimensional excelling only in one phase. To me that makes Ultramarines potentially the most powerful but requires solid tactical play.

[emperorpants]

Hey everybody I took a week off to play in a local underground tournament and drink a lot. I chose to bring Ultramarines. Here are my current thoughts on my favorite Legion and why I chose to field them.

Back during 8th edition we picked up a few tournament wins, mostly by virtue of having the first codex and the incredibly broken original version of Roboute Guilliman. Marines had a rep as being the worst codex and was the butt of many jokes... still Guillaman was universally hated and lots of the haters were people that play other Chapters. His points went up a bit but nothing really significant.

Finally at the tail end of Eighth edition geedub in their infernal wisdom decided it was was time to up our game - along came codex 2.0 along with the supplements. Now you would think Ultramarine players would be overjoyed jumping for nirvana... but sadly no. Some were outraged that now Guilloman aura to reroll wounds was only for 1s even though his points were decreased. Some went so far to even declare him unplayable. While the universal hate quickly subsided not so for those internal haters. It just wasn’t good enough our Aggressors could move and double shoot two turns in a row. Hilarity ensues when you ask other Space Marine players how much they’d like to have their own Primarch.

Now here is ninth edition. We have a new codex and an errata for our supplement. The FAQ release changes a number of units in the supplement in substantial ways, adds the CORE keyword to others (and adds it to certain abilities and stratagems), and updates some wargear to bring it in line with the new Codex: Space Marines changes, The FAQ also applies the new categories to each of the book’s stratagems and adjusts some text.

Guilliman’s Aura suffers fewer changes from its 8th edition version: Guilliman still gives out the old Chapter Master re-roll to units within 6″, though now the effect is limited to UTLRAMARINES CORE and CHARACTER units. This still includes himself, which reduces the potential for bad rolls to stop him from killing something – a problem that marine captains are now vulnerable to. GeeDub also folded in the re-roll 1s to wound part of the aura and limited it to ULTRAMARINES CORE units, keeping it in-line with a Lieutenant’s Tactical Precision aura.

Master of battle gets the AURA tag and is otherwise unchanged including NON-CORE units plus it also restores the old iteration of And They Shall Know No Fear on top of the new version, granting marines within 12″ re-rollable morale that ignores all modifiers to combat attrition. Seems pretty tasty to me.

Moving onto the best psyker in the game Tigurius’ Master of Prescience ability only hits CORE and CHARACTER units now, otherwise it’s unchanged, activating at the start of the battle round. Tigurius is only 15 points more than a standard chief librarian with masses of upside for the extra investment, incorporating both the Chief Librarian warlord trait and Relic as his baseline kit saving you the hassle of spending trait slots, relic slots, or CP on them.

Victrix Honor Guard gained the CORE keyword, and now have the updated bodyguard rule: If they’re within 3 inches of a character with 9 wounds or fewer then that character cannot be targeted with ranged attacks. This applies even if you’re closer to the character than the Honour Guard, and this protects you from abilities that ignore the Look Out Sir! rule! They amazing retain their 3+ invulnerable save – the FAQ points out that their ultima storm shields do not change to match the new profiles – making them one of the only marine units in the game left with a 3++.

Tyrannic War Veterans gain the CORE keyword and one extra wound plus their price remains unchanged making them 2 points per model cheaper than Tactical marines.

The relic Seal of Oath ability now only applies to CORE and CHARACTER units, but still permits full hit and wound re-rolls however it is no longer locked on one enemy target.

The stratagem Inspiring Command increases the range of the model’s aura by 3 inches, to a maximum of 9 inches. Changes in wording do confirm that this interacts with auras provided by relics and warlord traits however, so a Captain or Lieutenant bearing the seal of oath can blanket pretty much your entire army with ease.

The Ultramarines’ design philosophy appears to be that the faction can do a bit of everything and do it quite well while other factions tend to be quite one dimensional excelling only in one phase. To me that makes Ultramarines potentially the most powerful but requires solid tactical play.

I don't disagree with most of that. This is a fairly accurate and well thought post for the most part. So honestly and truly, props to you black blow fly.

 

I honestly am pretty happy overall with how we turned out after the FAQ. As I said before we didn't get out of it as well as id hoped, but not nearly as bad as was feared. It could have been lots worse. Just look at those poor imperial fists. Talk about getting screwed.

 

-We really retained our re rolls for the most part, and other chapters can't say that.

 

-I've already talked about how awesome Victrix guard are, but yeah, they are a legit option now.

 

-Agreed on Tiggy. Now that psychic fortress is so good Tiggy has really shot up and it's really no contest for Ultras about which is better between him and a generic master libby. It's obviously Tiggy.

 

- Guilliman is much better now that everyone else has lost so much of their re rolls. I've said before and I'll say it again: providing re-rolls to non-core is huge, even if it's just ones to hit. It opens up things that other chapters can't do. Our forgeworld units will get re rolls. Valiant and reapers will get re rolls. These are things no one else can do. Guilliman just needs a bit of a points drop to start finding his way into competitive lists. Even still, I'm going to be testing him out with things like an ATV list. Honestly, as more dexes are released and more armies gain core keyword changes, Guillimans value will increase. Codex by codex his value will slowly rise.

 

-Despite all these positives, the main problem for myself and many others though is we feel that Ultras still lack an identity overall. However, I'm not going to get further into that as it was already discussed at length.

 

-Good post fly, and welcome back. Honestly. :)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If Santic Halo is still a thing wow we can has one hellavuh smash captain maybe one of the best. He will need to stay in aura range of Bobby G for full potential. Really excited to give him a go over here.

[jonjacob]

Sorry if threadamacy, had a theoretical while trying to sleep.

 

Would everyone agree that the latest faq rules for body guard units would protect charging characters from overwatch regardless if they are the closet model?

Edited October 20, 2020 by jonjacob

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

A lot of the time special rules don’t function out of phase so would have to check all pertinent wording .

[Ishagu]

Sorry if threadamacy, had a theoretical while trying to sleep.

 

Would everyone agree that the latest faq rules for body guard units would protect charging characters from overwatch regardless if they are the closet model?

Yeah definitely. The character can't be targeted by shooting whilst they are within 3"