new Codex - the changes

[Medjugorje]

Hello brothers,

 

as we all know, the codex, new rules, new mechanics, new lists...

I write down some very important rules for which changes our acutal lists:

 

- impulsors lost fly (think they get it by a stratagem back), also lost -2 to charge and 4++ is changed into 5++

 

- thunder hammers lost AP

 

- EC and Helbrecht have dmg2 instead of d3

 

- MoS Grimaldus is just Grimaldus (not sure yet but maybe we can play both)

 

- Assault Intercessors now have acces to better weapons

 

- Scouts are not a troop choice - so no cheap troops anymore. a squad of tacticals/crusadersquad in the cheapest way is 90 points

 

- each astartes chainsword has -1ap so crusadersquads with 2 fists and 3 initiates could be really a good choice - especially after Impulsors are way more expensive then rhinos.

 

- the company veterans sadly lost their ability to take wounds but if they are in - we can take a ancient and/or an apo without a slot which is important because Elite is the most important thing.

 

- the 2 wounds on firstborn changes everything I think - maybe the vanguard vets (which were already really strong and gain +1W just for 3 points) are now the way to make a devot push or advance and charge with a chaplain nearby.

[SgtBlaster]

Company Veterans no longer take up a slot either if we have a Marshall in the detachment, and they give character an upgraded look out sir. They're looking very good

[9x19 Parabellum]

The nerf bat to impulsors boggles my mind.  And it went up in points alongside losing all that stuff.  So my dream of all primaris charging out of cheap, reliable impulsors is smashed :-(

 

You're now looking at a ~130 point model that:

 

-doesn't shoot particularly well

-doesn't carry many troops

-is not particularly resilient

-has fewer 'tricks' and gimmicks (fly, repulsor field, etc)

 

I'm really not understanding the point of it.

Edited October 6, 2020 by 9x19 Parabellum

[Marshal Wolfhart]

XX-pulsors flying over 3 storey buildings was always stupid though. They're hover tanks, not pseudo aircraft like Eldar skimmers.

 

That said, outside a unit of bladeguard to devout push into stuff, i don't think we'll see many Impulsors. (Considering their money prize tag, that's a good thing, imo)

 

Another big change: We have no super doctrine as off now. Will that get FAQed? Hopefully...

[9x19 Parabellum]

I'm fine with losing something, <FLY> for example, assuming it gains something else (even if that something else is just a cost reduction).  I'm not ok with losing several somethings AND a (not insignificant) points hike on top of that.  It's not like Impulsors were winning tournaments. 

[Medjugorje]

Yeah... I think they should be far cheaper. Thats very stupid. 

 

The lost of our Superdoctrine is more hope that we get a better one instead.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

What's very clear about the loss of the super doctrine, is that it clearly wasn't very well regarded, as noone seems to really mind!

[Hymnblade]

I agree Impulsors are a lot less attractive now. I think one is still worth it for the Devout Push trick, but I'm way less interested in buying five of them and making an Impulsor rush list.

 

What's very clear about the loss of the super doctrine, is that it clearly wasn't very well regarded, as noone seems to really mind!

I'll be a lot more miffed if a month goes by and they haven't fixed it; right now it's just a silly oversight. But I am annoyed that Sanguinary Priests got the Crusader Helm ability to put a unit in the assault doctrine. Even though our doctrine was weak, at least we were unique among the assault chapters in having a way to get to it early.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I wouldn't mind something different.

I'm not that aux fait with the other assault chapters, but I think that the others are as follows:

 

- White scars, +1 damage

- Blood Angels, +1 Attack

- Space Wolves, Additional hit on 6s to hit

 

I wouldn't mind something to reflect the fact that we fight differently than those chapters. Like an extra AP bonus on 6s to wound. To reflect that when we get that hit in properly, it goes to the right place, as a true sword master would ensure.

[Hymnblade]

Auto-wounding on 6 would actually be decent if not for the vehicle restriction. Like, Gene-Wrought Might is a decent stratagem with the same effect, it's just that our doctrine doesn't work in 75% of the cases when you'd want to use GWM. It only affects targets where you don't need it.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I think what's annoying about the bonus we get/had is that unlike every other assault chapter, we don't gain anything extra we wouldn't have with good dice rolls. We simply have a higher proportion of our hits translating into save rolls, as opposed to extra hits, damage or attacks.

[Medjugorje]

I wouldn't mind something different.

 

I'm not that aux fait with the other assault chapters, but I think that the others are as follows:

 

- White scars, +1 damage

- Blood Angels, +1 Attack

- Space Wolves, Additional hit on 6s to hit

 

I wouldn't mind something to reflect the fact that we fight differently than those chapters. Like an extra AP bonus on 6s to wound. To reflect that when we get that hit in properly, it goes to the right place, as a true sword master would ensure.

what??? reroll to hit in the first fight phase would be exact what we had in 5th edition. And then we could ignore anything else. It would be exact what I want and what we need. 

 

but thats a theme for the 9th edition room.

The question how new lists are shown is:

 

HQ:

Captain, Lieutenant and Chaplain are still the best choices

Troops:

every single choice has its right place.

Elite;

here is my question: Apo take a Slot too? or is he just a part of the old company veteran squad ? 

Company Veterans dont take a slot as long as there is a captain, so this is a auto-take for me and then 2 or 3 Bladeguard Veterans fully sized. 1 or 2 Redemptors after they got buffed so strongly. 

Vanguard Vets and Assault Terminators could be a thing too... its so hard to decide which of them are really needed. The Judiciar would be so strong if he hasnt lost the 6" range for his ability reduced to 3"

 

The new Apo can have an aura of 3" for FnP - so we can take the Crusaderhelmet for him and with Ferment acclamation he has an 9" FnP aura! 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Medjugorje

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Thing is, hit re-rolls are pretty easy to come by in other ways. It doesn't increase our output, just our reliability. everyone else's doctrine gives them something EXTRA. More damage, more hits, more dice. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

The main use of a Judiciar for us is in the Impulsor bomb with a squad of 5 BladeGuard, in which case, his loss of range is less of an issue as the BladeGuard need to get within 3" out of the Impulsor anyway. So just make sure the Judiciar is close enough to debuff the target.

[Medjugorje]

Thing is, hit re-rolls are pretty easy to come by in other ways. It doesn't increase our output, just our reliability. everyone else's doctrine gives them something EXTRA. More damage, more hits, more dice. 

No, you dont need a support character or have different ways for this supporters. Dont need a expensive Chapter master and dont need the litany of hate - instead can speak other litanies or take a emperors champion instead to hunt down characters...

 

Like I said... this would be what I really want. We are real swordsmen and we are not monsters like the blood angels which are berserkers, we are skillful and we know to fight with a sword ( thats why I think reroll to hit should be the hing instead - or just reroll hits of 1 + the the knights of sigismund rule).

[Sword Brother Adelard]

It would still be better than what we had

[SirJyo]

What if we had a bonus mobility/survivability rather than just more reliable/better attack. It's hard to grab a decent doctrine in the melee space without overlapping with other chapters'.

 

Some ideas that come to mind:

- +1 to charge rolls

- +2" consolidation moves

- Skillfull parry for infantry units

- Reduce incoming ap by 1 in shooting

 

call it "righteous charge" or something

[Blindhamster]

ooh skillful parry for infantry would be pretty cool tbh.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

We should have gotten 6+ to hit is 2 hits. It's the melee version of what Fists have for bolters. That Wolves got it instead of us annoys me to no end. 

 

Reroll hits is, as Adelard said, a good consistency bump but does nothing to break the potential ceiling of what are troupes are capable of. I'd rather have that potential to spike and require a Chaplain for the rerolls than not have the potential at all, so I'm against it as our doctrine. If I pull something from previous editions it will be more interesting than a simple reroll gimmick.

 

6+ to wound is mortal wounds might work, but that would make people nervous. So I'd be willing to accept 6+ to hit auto wounds, as long as we remove the restriction on vehicles, remove the charge requirement, and change our 6+ to wound extra AP warlord trait that doesn't stack with assault doctrine into an aura of 5+ to hit auto wounds. It doesn't raise our ceiling, exactly, but it stacks with chaplain rerolls and makes chainswords a and powerswords more efficient.

[jeremy1391]

For the super doctrine I’d go with re-roll wounds in combat if shock assault has been activated, call it zealous fury or something.

[_luca_93]

Just because topic is called " New codex the changes" :

 

Have you noticed the "Land speeder" datasheet? With 70pt you have a light vehicle can move 18", can shoot two multi melta shot, can catch objectives, with FLY keyword can move with an awesome agility... Ill give them a try!

Edited October 7, 2020 by _luca_93

[Urkh]

I haven't put my land speeders down since 5th edition. I have always loved them.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

For the super doctrine I’d go with re-roll wounds in combat if shock assault has been activated, call it zealous fury or something.hayn

 

Re-roll wounds would be a nice buff, but I just think we could think bigger. Re-rolls don't give us anything we don't potentially have. You could still roll hot, and we still have other ways to gain a lot of re-rolls, so we don't gain anything. Whereas White Scars players know that when they reach the assault doctrine, their damage output is about go up noticeably, Blood Angels know their attack output is going up. We know that, at best, we don't have to roll a dice or two we may have wounded with anyway. 

 

I really like the Skillful Parry idea. that would rock. Yes, our damage output isn't going up, but our ability to stay in the fight is dramatic. I'm realising more and more that what we do well is move, and survive. We already have a lot of movement buffs, what with our charge re-rolls, advance re-rolls, Devout Push to manoeuvre even in the opponent's turn, but an extra defensive buff away from the characters, that would rock.

[Blindhamster]

skillful parry would also help blunt enemy marine lists in assault doctrine, which would be kinda cool

[Brother Carpenter]

I haven't put my land speeders down since 5th edition. I have always loved them.

 

Same here,

I've got 3 normal speeders a typhoon and a tornado and a FW Tempest.

They used to rule in 5th.

Especially the Tempest, a speeder that couldn't be shot down with a bolt pistol  (at least from he front  )

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by Brother Carpenter