Dedicated Transports

[CCE1981]

Anyone seen the bare bones pts on Dedicated Transports?

 

With Tactical Marines going to two wounds a barebones Rhino is much much more valuable than a barebones Impulsor. Being able to deliver twice as many 2 wound Marines should in my estimation drive that price up.

[War of the Eagle]

Droppod 70

Impulsor 110

Landspeeder storm 55

 

Not sure on others yet

[Lukoi]

Razorback 110

Rhino 80 

[CCE1981]

Yeah, not sure how a Rhino is 30 pts less than an Impulsor. But then GW doesn’t put a value on transport capacity.

[War of the Eagle]

Yeah, not sure how a Rhino is 30 pts less than an Impulsor. But then GW doesn’t put a value on transport capacity.

I think the repulsor gets the 2 storm bolters free, so thats at least 10points

[Snazzy]

Yeah, not sure how a Rhino is 30 pts less than an Impulsor. But then GW doesn’t put a value on transport capacity.

 

The Impulsor has Assault Vehicle, 2 inches more movement, and 1 more wound. 

[9x19 Parabellum]

The Rhino carries 4 more dudes, which is the primary purpose of a transport.

 

The Impulsor is a mess. It doesn't do anything well.

-it can't transport dudes well

-it can't shoot well

-it doesn't have all the tricks and gimmicks it used to (fly, and repulsor rule)

 

the 2 inches of movement and assault rule are less useful on a board that is smaller than ever, especially when the act of disembarking can net you an extra 3" anyway (and doesn't prevent you from charging from a Rhino), and you can advance after disembarking anyway.   I'm not saying that the extra movement doesn't have value.  I'm just making the argument that the marginal value given the lower transport capacity and the hefty 30 point pricetag does not register as good value to me.

 

Personally I think the Rhino is about right at 80 points, and the Impulsor is too much at 110. 

[CCE1981]

The Rhinos capacity of ten in an msu meta means two squads of 5 instead of a 5-man squad and an hq. You can do a ton with 2x 5-man squads. 3x rhinos at 240 pts moves 30 marines around as opposed to 330 moving 15 marines with 3 Characters. That’s enough to overwhelm the character support.

[Mandragola]

Rhinos do look pretty good. But the quality of a transport isn't just about how many models it can carry, it's also about which models it can carry. Impulsors can carry Bladeguard, which is roughly equivalent to carrying terminators. Nobody is going to load up a combat squad of intercessors in an impulsor. Dropping 6 bladeguard, or 5 and a character, onto an objective is pretty different to anything a rhino can do.

 

I actually think a rhino-based army could be very powerful. I'd fill the Rhinos with Death Guard or zerkers though, not tactical marines. I'm not seeing any firstborn units that would be better off in a transport than the traitors will be once they get their book. Even basic CSMs with chainswords are a reasonable option - so I suppose that grey hunters, blood claws and crusader squads might have a role.

[Snazzy]

the 2 inches of movement and assault rule are less useful on a board that is smaller than ever, especially when the act of disembarking can net you an extra 3" anyway (and doesn't prevent you from charging from a Rhino), and you can advance after disembarking anyway.   I'm not saying that the extra movement doesn't have value.  I'm just making the argument that the marginal value given the lower transport capacity and the hefty 30 point pricetag does not register as good value to me.

 

 

Assault Vehicle doesn't prevent the disembarking unit from moving, just charging.  You can move the Impulsor, disembark, move and advance the disembarked unit.  That is an enormous amount of movement.  Granted, this was better when the Impulsor had Fly.  But, the speed and flexibility an Impulsor adds is not to be overlooked at only 30 points more.

 

However, all of this is moot.  Rhinos carry Firstborn.  Impulsors carry Primaris.

[9x19 Parabellum]

I agree with that Snazzy, and I already mentioned it.  I think it's about a foot more potential movement. That's all well and great on paper.  But in reality you have to really start considering other things:

 

-out of range of support of the rest of your army

-isolated on the board, subject to multiple charges, etc.

-none of the models you'd want to do this with are really expendable, and worth losing a minimum of 120 points of models to snag a deep objective turn 1, only to not be able to actually score on turn 2 because you're models are dead.

[Mandragola]

Well sure, throwing your guys in the enemy's face on turn one won't always be the best idea. But having the option to disembark after moving is a really big deal. There's no way of saying that the rhino is a better transport because it can't do this. It's definitely a point in favour of the impulsor.

 

You can't criticise a unit because it gives players the option to do stupid things. Bad players can always find ways to lose games without requiring special rules like this. Good players can make use of them.

[Snazzy]

The real value, as i see it, is the ability to move ObSec units across the field.  Even if it just meant to strip control from an enemy.  Some armies, like IF can exploit this by getting something across the map, into cover and becoming a gadfly for the enemy.

 

btw, i hate defending Primaris units.  Stop making me do that.

[CCE1981]

Rhinos do look pretty good. But the quality of a transport isn't just about how many models it can carry, it's also about which models it can carry. Impulsors can carry Bladeguard, which is roughly equivalent to carrying terminators. Nobody is going to load up a combat squad of intercessors in an impulsor. Dropping 6 bladeguard, or 5 and a character, onto an objective is pretty different to anything a rhino can do.

 

I actually think a rhino-based army could be very powerful. I'd fill the Rhinos with Death Guard or zerkers though, not tactical marines. I'm not seeing any firstborn units that would be better off in a transport than the traitors will be once they get their book. Even basic CSMs with chainswords are a reasonable option - so I suppose that grey hunters, blood claws and crusader squads might have a role.

 

I think that you are forgetting about Vanguard and Company Veterans.  You can actually fill up that Rhino with a Command Retinue that costs no force org inside that Rhino armed almost however you want them to be armed. 

[CCE1981]

The real value, as i see it, is the ability to move ObSec units across the field.  Even if it just meant to strip control from an enemy.  Some armies, like IF can exploit this by getting something across the map, into cover and becoming a gadfly for the enemy.

 

btw, i hate defending Primaris units.  Stop making me do that.

You do know that there is a Warlord trait that grants all Core units within 6" Objective Secured, as well as upgrading your Ancient to a Chapter Ancient to turn all your units with Objective Secured count as double right?

[Snazzy]

Yes.  Are they able to move 20+2D6 without an Impulsor?

[Mandragola]

 

Rhinos do look pretty good. But the quality of a transport isn't just about how many models it can carry, it's also about which models it can carry. Impulsors can carry Bladeguard, which is roughly equivalent to carrying terminators. Nobody is going to load up a combat squad of intercessors in an impulsor. Dropping 6 bladeguard, or 5 and a character, onto an objective is pretty different to anything a rhino can do.

 

I actually think a rhino-based army could be very powerful. I'd fill the Rhinos with Death Guard or zerkers though, not tactical marines. I'm not seeing any firstborn units that would be better off in a transport than the traitors will be once they get their book. Even basic CSMs with chainswords are a reasonable option - so I suppose that grey hunters, blood claws and crusader squads might have a role.

 

I think that you are forgetting about Vanguard and Company Veterans.  You can actually fill up that Rhino with a Command Retinue that costs no force org inside that Rhino armed almost however you want them to be armed. 

 

That's fair. Company veterans could be an interesting choice. I run Pedro instead of a captain, meaning I don't get them as a free choice (I think).

 

I think I'd give vanguard veterans jump packs, which are a great deal for 2 points.

[NatBrannigan]

Anyone know what’s up with the Impulsor shield dome? Thought it was going to 5+, the codex says 5+ but the app (the excellent subscription app which isn’t awful at all...) still says 4+?

 

Everything else has been updated? I assume just another blank mark against the app?

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

The app is pretty bad atm I would trust the book. It's possible they change it back to 4++ because they nerfed the tank on multiple levels and may have gone too far but for now it's a 5++ till we see a FAQ.

[Lukoi]

Anyone know what’s up with the Impulsor shield dome? Thought it was going to 5+, the codex says 5+ but the app (the excellent subscription app which isn’t awful at all...) still says 4+?

 

Everything else has been updated? I assume just another blank mark against the app?

 

The book is the proper resource here.  If it changes, celebrate after the fact :P

[Urkh]

This thread does not instill much hope for a mass drop pods list, which has always been a dream of mine (I currently have 4).

[Karhedron]

This thread does not instill much hope for a mass drop pods list, which has always been a dream of mine (I currently have 4).

Really? I think Pods are have gotten better, even if only as a function of the fact that they now deliver twice as many wounds. Also, if you drop one near an Objective, that is another 8 T6 wounds the opponent needs to chew through to stop you scoring it or another target he has to divert an ObjSec unit to hold.

 

Also Pods can come down T1 so if you want to kill an armoured target and don't want to wait until T2 for your Eliminators to wander in from reserve, you can drop a Dev squad with 4 multimeltas. I would say Pods are looking a lot better than they did in 8th.

 

P.S. Downside is that they are a relatively easy source of points for "Bring it Down" but its not too bad.

Edited October 17, 2020 by Karhedron

[Urkh]

Yah, I was going off the downside you listed. The guys saying they are going to limit their vehicles to two to deny eradicators the kills for the VP's makes it seem like using a lot of pods could end up hurting more than helping. I haven't played a game of 9th yet, so maybe I shouldn't have commented. I dont know how high a players VPs are in general at the end of a game, so no reference point for the percentage 15 VP's is. And if the units that come out of them net you points, I guess it offsets, eh?

[Karhedron]

It is very hard to design an army that avoids giving VPs to the opponent anywhere. If you succeed, you may find you don't have the units you need to effectively engage the enemy as you would wish and your opponent will just go and choose a different secondary objective.

 

Pods are <10 wounds so only 2 VPs each. If you take 3 pods, that is only 6 VPs. Each secondary can score a maximum of 15 VPs so even if the Pods represent "easy kills", your opponent may prefer to choose an Objective that he can gain more points from. Of course even if they give your opponent VPs, if he is shooting at your pods, he is essentially trying to kill a model that has done its job and is just plinking away with its storm bolter. If he shoots the pod rather than whatever came out of it, he may live to regret that decision.

 

Several secondaries have been written to discourage spamming certain types of unit in that if you play 5+ of that type, it represents an easy secondary for your opponent. But taking 2-3 is not so much of a problem.

[Urkh]

Thank you for the info karth! What do you think about pods with deathwind missile launchers? Worth it? Do you think it could make people target the pods more and use their firepower? I used deathwinds a lot in 5th and 6th, and they worked well in clearing out my brother's gaunts. My book is still coming in the mail, so I can't look at stuff yet.