ATVs

[emperorpants]

Hey guys, correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like we have two ways to actually get re-rolls on these. First is of course Guilliman. This could be pretty great if you run a squad of 3 of them, with whatever weapon load out you choose. Both seem good.

 

The other way is our re-roll 1s strat. This works on bikes, which these are currently. (We will see what keyword changes for these are in the works.)

 

These are going to be potent for us, as we are the inly chapter to be able to give them re-rolls to my knowledge.

 

So, what gun are you going to put on them? Will they have a place in your army? Also, how long till the apothecary trick no longer works? Ha, I'm guessing the apothecary thing will get faqed away in under two weeks.

[Paulinus]

My 2 cents for whatever it’s worth.

 

At first I wasn’t too convinced these things would do good for Ultramarines.

 

But on closer inspection I think they will be very good for us.

 

1. They have heavy weapons. They aren’t vehicles. We have a doctrine that gives us at least two turns of no penalties. Withe the new Codex strat that puts in all three, our own strats that lets us go to tactical (one unit though) we won’t be suffering the minuses most other armies will.

 

2. Our fall back from shooting and our strat that lets us fall, shoot and charge makes them very versatile and hard to pin down.

 

I plan to try the Chappy on outrider, 3xATV and an outrider squad as a solid block to zoom in hit and run and take primaries.

 

Im not sure yet but I will likely play with Multi Meltas when fielding full squads. Gatling if only single models.

[Karhedron]

ATV's don't have Infantry keyword so are not affected by the -1 to-Hit for moving. Same for Attack Bikes.

 

I would probably run MMs as Marines in general are not short of anti-infantry dakka. The ATV is fast enough and durable enough to get those MMs into close range of viable targets. Everyone is drooling over Eradicators for melta delivery but they can be screened when coming in from Reserves. I think ATVs and attack bikes will prove better delivery mechanisms in the long run.

[NKirkham24]

I watched TTT codex review today, and they were saying how broken they feel the ATV is, given how cheap it is, and that you can easily fit 9 in a list. Obviously the codex FAQ may change things, but as they stand, they could quite easily make the core of a very competitive list.

 

Personally, I’ll be picking one up to run with my Chaplain and Outriders, but not sure if I’d get any more after that. Fairly cheap model I suppose, so could be tempted. I think I’d go melta too, for the reasons mentioned above, anti infantry fire is easily handled in a marine list, so the extra heavy firepower is nice to have on such a mobile platform.

[Ishagu]

This is clearly one of the best units in the book, but I really can't bring myself to invest in them.

 

I like Primaris using hovering vehicles, and I'm willing to make a single exception with the Chaplain on bike because he looks more beroque, and it kind of fits him.

[Kallas]

They are incredibly cost effective. Great resilience (8W at T5), good speed (Mv14"), and good firepower (Twin Auto Bolt Rifles and either a Gatling Onslaught, or a a Multi-Melta), all for the low cost of 80-85pts. It's nuts.

 

Aside from it being egregiously efficient, its model is also utterly hideous.

 

ATV's don't have Infantry keyword so are not affected by the -1 to-Hit for moving. Same for Attack Bikes.

I would probably run MMs as Marines in general are not short of anti-infantry dakka. The ATV is fast enough and durable enough to get those MMs into close range of viable targets. Everyone is drooling over Eradicators for melta delivery but they can be screened when coming in from Reserves. I think ATVs and attack bikes will prove better delivery mechanisms in the long run.

Yeah, people seem to be confusing/conflating the Heavy Penalty (-1 when moving for Infantry) and the Big Guns Never Tire (shoot into melee) a lot at the moment. Not being vehicles means they can't shoot into melee, but that's honestly probably a good thing; they're strong enough as is.

 

Agree with the rest too. With an MM and their Twin ABR, they've got decent all-round firepower. 6x 30" 4/0/1 is fine for some additional anti-infantry firepower, especially since Marines aren't lacking in infantry clearing capabilities.

 

I definitely agree that ATVs (and to a lesser extent, Attack Bikes) will be a little bit of a surprise with everyone's focus (understandably) on Eradicators. ATVs are just insanely cost effective.

[Ishagu]

People are obsessing over Eradicators which is funny, because two Multi Melta Dev Squads in a drop pod are actually more dangerous and can be delivered anywhere on turn 1.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think the ATV model is alright, but I need to get a look at it in hand first before a final decision. It needs a bit of work done to it I think, need to see if there's room to add some reliquaries to make it more Ravenwing. A small tank design like the Sabre from HH might've worked better in general though I think.

 

MM attack bikes and the ATV I think will be quite useful. In general, like all bikes and speeders, for Ravenwing it'll be good once it gets Jink.

 

For UM, being able to fall back and shoot could be handy to keep it out of trouble. Faster units in general I think are going to be quite handy right now.

Edited October 9, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Can’t wait use them.

[Riddlesworth]

The fast attack slot is pretty crowded, which might limit its usage.

 

Just out of the primaris line for units very very good for their cost you have plasma inceptors, outriders and the ATV.

[Toxichobbit]

Make sure you have an Apothecary with the unit. Returning an 8 wound model with a multi-melta to play for 1CP is pretty swingy (and lets be honest, needs to be fixed by GW). Bonus points if it exploded when it died for the sheer supidity of the situation.

 

Apothecaries are now also go-kart repairmen!

[Riddlesworth]

Make sure you have an Apothecary with the unit. Returning an 8 wound model with a multi-melta to play for 1CP is pretty swingy (and lets be honest, needs to be fixed by GW). Bonus points if it exploded when it died for the sheer supidity of the situation.

 

Apothecaries are now also go-kart repairmen!

Super silly. I think everyone is expecting week 1 faq for that.

 

He slows them down too.

 

Now ravenwing apotbecaey...

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Is only practical for the boys in black.

[Prot]

(I think we all know the ATV repair is probably going to be revisitied.)

 

Personally, I pre-ordered 2 of these ATV's intending to use them in most lists. This is a unit that's going to find its way into a lot of armies. What I like about this is the ability to hide them, bomb them out, and have them fall in behind Outriders.

 

I am running a Chappy on a bike as well so this just works out as a great cluster to fly around the board. 

[emperorpants]

Yeah, with these bikes being so chunky with their 8 wounds apiece it's going to be hard for armies to chew through them especially with a 5+ invuln from psychic powers. The thing is, since these don't have the vehicle keyword, their shooting can be turned off by getting tagged tagged. Not so for us, we can have them fall back and shoot. This is very powerful and makes these ATVs extra good as Ultras, especially since they don't really do melee well and are primarily a shooting unit.

[Kallas]

People are obsessing over Eradicators which is funny, because two Multi Melta Dev Squads in a drop pod are actually more dangerous and can be delivered anywhere on turn 1.

Well, that's a minimum of 240pts for 4x Multi-Meltas and a Drop Pod, so that's the equivalent of 6 Eradicators. Which pump out 12 Melta shots, but obviously don't have deployment shenanigans.

 

Eradicators are horrendously powerful, and absolutely need to be more expensive/less killy. That's no to say that you can't build other units to be good, but your quoted post is not exactly disproving that Eradicators are overpowered, just saying that something else can be good.

 

Edit: I kind of want to find a third party replacement, since the models are so disgustingly grotesque, but at the same time I kind of want to let them get nerfed (in about 14 months, after GW has sold enough) before I think about investing.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Kallas

[Ishagu]

 

 

People are obsessing over Eradicators which is funny, because two Multi Melta Dev Squads in a drop pod are actually more dangerous and can be delivered anywhere on turn 1.

Well, that's a minimum of 240pts for 4x Multi-Meltas and a Drop Pod, so that's the equivalent of 6 Eradicators. Which pump out 12 Melta shots, but obviously don't have deployment shenanigans.

 

Eradicators are horrendously powerful, and absolutely need to be more expensive/less killy. That's no to say that you can't build other units to be good, but your quoted post is not exactly disproving that Eradicators are overpowered, just saying that something else can be good.

 

Edit: I kind of want to find a third party replacement, since the models are so disgustingly grotesque, but at the same time I kind of want to let them get nerfed (in about 14 months, after GW has sold enough) before I think about investing.

Yes it's expensive if you transport a single squad, but the cost of transport per model is cheaper with two units.

 

And remember one Multi Melta will fire twice in each squad.

 

So even with one unit, that's 10 shots with the Cherub potentially delivered in Melta range on turn 1.

Sisters have a similar unit that gets +1 to wound potentially and costs 150.

 

The Eradicators are great no question, but their damage isn't far greater than some comparable units.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Ishagu

[Kallas]

Their damage is comparatively greater than any equivalently costed amount of models (eg, the Dev Squad itself, or the Retributors) as well as being T5 3W models.

 

The Meltapod of Devs is certainly a viable tool, especially if you pack the other five seats with, say, some Vanguard Vets, or Company Veterans accompanying a Champion and/or a character meant to get stuck in.

 

Edit:

For example, the Eradicators bring 6 (assault) Melta shots for 120pts, compared to the Dev squad's 2 Multi-meltas, so 4 (heavy) Melta shots for 130pts.

 

If we include the ATVs in the discussion (as we should), they can pack in 2 Multi-meltas for 190pts, but also bring mobility and high wound count. So they're less effective at destroying their target, but are much more individually resilient than an Eradicator unit; and their usage is more of hit-and-run type, where their mobility lets them leverage LOS blocking terrain to pop out on their target much better.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Kallas

[Charybdis]

 

People are obsessing over Eradicators which is funny, because two Multi Melta Dev Squads in a drop pod are actually more dangerous and can be delivered anywhere on turn 1.

Well, that's a minimum of 240pts for 4x Multi-Meltas and a Drop Pod, so that's the equivalent of 6 Eradicators. Which pump out 12 Melta shots, but obviously don't have deployment shenanigans.

 

Eradicators are horrendously powerful, and absolutely need to be more expensive/less killy. That's no to say that you can't build other units to be good, but your quoted post is not exactly disproving that Eradicators are overpowered, just saying that something else can be good.

 

Edit: I kind of want to find a third party replacement, since the models are so disgustingly grotesque, but at the same time I kind of want to let them get nerfed (in about 14 months, after GW has sold enough) before I think about investing.

 

Dude this model is like the anti-Reivers. 

 

It's so bad looking GW is going to keep it viable from now until it gets put into legend.

 

It's just too good to ignore but I'm definitely going to keep an eye out for some conversion ideas to make having it within my eye line more tolerable. 

[Karhedron]

Is only practical for the boys in black.

Blood Angels can pull it off too with a Jump Sanguinary Priest. I am definitely gonna dust off my old MM Attack bikes and see how they perform.

[Kallas]

Dude this model is like the anti-Reivers. 

 

It's so bad looking GW is going to keep it viable from now until it gets put into legend.

 

It's just too good to ignore but I'm definitely going to keep an eye out for some conversion ideas to make having it within my eye line more tolerable. 

 

I know, you're right, they will 

 

Not sure what a good conversion base would be yet, I'm sure some third party won't let us down!

[MadEdric]

I just want 2 ATVs so I can play Rat Patrol.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I'm just going to stick reliquaries and angels and stuff on it. Might as well go all in on making it look impractical, for DA we already have landspeeders carrying statues and all so it'll fit right it.