aa.logan Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) I thought there was a thread for War in the Museum, but I couldn’t see it. Everything I’ve read by Rath so far has been very good- the aforementioned prequel, his Necromunda short Cut and Gut being my personal standouts, so I’m devoting yet another Saturday to tearing through a BL novel on the day of release. As is seemingly my wont, I’m two chapters in and loving it... First nice little touch- Necrons apparently use cubits as a unit of measurement; wether these are actual earth cubits or a comparative translation, I’m not sure, but it’s a nice way of marking them as different to us. Edited October 10, 2020 by aa.logan Roomsky, StrangerOrders and ThatOneMarshal 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
caladancid Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 When book review threads get started and you haven't read much if any of the book, it looks like chasing after being first rather than contributing to a discussion. Especially when it happens multiple times in a row. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5615139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Well, someone has to be the first to start a discussion, right? And if he's currently reading it and there's no thread covering it, I don't see an issue here. Maybe I've misunderstood your post. If so, apologies but I don't think that any of us would fall into the "FIRST!" trope. Roomsky, StrangerOrders, aa.logan and 4 others 7 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5615142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa.logan Posted October 10, 2020 Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) Sorry, I just like to share my thoughts on a book I’m especially excited about as I go; apologies if that looks like anything other than that. Some books get threads started as soon as they are announced, but since I felt I had nothing to say about this until I started reading other than “ooh it’s out in mind-October and has a pretty cover, the author is good and I’m looking forward to it” I didn’t start a thread before. I feel I’m starting a discussion, and am contributing something of substance, or at least as much substance as people who’ve not read *any* of a book do in chipping in, based on preconceptions or contextless spoilers elsewhere, or those reacting negatively to a book before it is even published. Both of which are waaaay more common than my ‘multiple times in a row’. Anyway. Great strong start to the book, establishing the rivalry between the two main characters early doors. Reveal hidden contents The War in Heaven hasn’t yet been directly covered, but does get some nice details described. One of Tazryn’s displays is described almost like miniatures- “Here, an aeldari stood mid-leap, the tip of her wraithbone dance slipper barely kissing the black display base. Next, a hulking krork, mountainous shoulders bunched and slick with battle-sweat. A Khaineite warrior in green armour, crouched low, legs wide, weaving his chainsword forward and up as if hooking it under a lychguard’s shield. A jokaero maintenance-slave. And across from them, blank dummies wearing the resplendent armour of the ancient necrontyr. A reminder of a time when they needed armour, before their bodies were living metal. The old times, sixty-five million years gone. The Flesh Times.” And we get a more detailed description of Hrud than I can recall- they struggle being placed in stasis and away from the warp, going mad, and their arms are described as being “articulated like a spine” Exodites still use shuriken weapons, but that’s always been the case. The Necrontyr smoked ‘tar’ in pipes; it has some narcotic properties Edited October 10, 2020 by aa.logan StrangerOrders, DukeLeto69, cheywood and 4 others 7 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5615156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockagh Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 On 10/10/2020 at 7:18 AM, caladancid said: When book review threads get started and you haven't read much if any of the book, it looks like chasing after being first rather than contributing to a discussion. Especially when it happens multiple times in a row. Mate that’s more than a little unfair. I’m a slow reader but I like to see early and quick readers putting up their thoughts. I enjoy it and I’m sure many others do. Let the man do his stuff. Ubiquitous1984, mc warhammer, Dumah and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5615166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carach Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 On 10/10/2020 at 7:18 AM, caladancid said: When book review threads get started and you haven't read much if any of the book, it looks like chasing after being first rather than contributing to a discussion. Especially when it happens multiple times in a row. bit harsh, let a person be enthused. At least they are actually *reading* the novel, instead of spamming up fantasy projections of things they have never laid eyes upon - not naming names or anything.. Ubiquitous1984, mc warhammer and aa.logan 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5615201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Reveal hidden contents Sounds like they’re using the portrayal of the Hrud from Xenology. aa.logan 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5615209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa.logan Posted October 10, 2020 Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) Reveal hidden contents So I’m about halfway in. It’s been that long since I read Xenology, I can’t recall if that is how the Hrud are described there. I do know that there are some mighty nice Easter eggs in the description of Trazyn’s collection. “Trukks and buggies howled corkscrews across the display, ripping across the desert shanty town built around the enormous idol of Gork – or Mork.” It’s (explicitly) Angelis from Gorkamorka! There are rebel grots and muties! I’m not all that up on Necron, lore- everything after the attack on Santuary 101 is still ‘new’ to me. I think this builds on Gav’s work in Indomitus on Destroyers- their transports are destroyed by Orikan after deployment to prevent their infection spreading, and their commitment to exterminating *all* life is explored in a nicely detailed fashion. Rath goes to lengths to explore the effect that functional immortality and the haziness around biotransferrence has had on Necron culture. Plays are used as allegories and important links for understanding and preserving Necrontyr culture and history- individual recollections are hazy, so however ‘mawkish’they are dismissed as being , they are understood to be culturally important. The undying nature of both cast and audience has, however, led to most performances taking decades- cryptek playwrights have apparently ‘gone overboard’ as vast tracts can be memorised and no-one needs interval drinks… Necrons are ruled by the ‘Awakened Council’, who adjudicate any disputes, established to maintain social hierarchies and protect those Necrons still asleep. Again, not sure if this is new or not, but it is explored well and amusingly. Like the plays, their decision making takes time- ‘two standard years of bickering, politicking and the occasional threat of violence’ to select a judge is described as a ‘typical Necron court case’ Trazyn’s collection is fabulous. Forgive the long extract- “In general, Trazyn had not been much interested in humans. He collected them, of course, he collected everything. But he considered them on the same level as orks, or various kinds of carnivorous algae. Their spread across the cosmos had destroyed so many more interesting civilisations, and since the rise of the Emperor their culture had an utter sameness that bored him... ...But the Heresy changed all that. Before it was all colonisation and settlement. This, this was history, this was drama. Betrayal. Struggle. Brother fighting brother across the gulf of the stars. Empires rising and falling, heroes and rebels... He’d collected so much that he’d begun to worry he’d gone overboard...Now he not only had specimens, and spare specimens, but spares of spares...the Emperor was just sitting there on Terra. Seemed a waste, such a historic figure left to rot like that. Trazyn could do a far better job at preservation and restoration. The humans probably wouldn’t agree.” Edited October 10, 2020 by aa.logan Taliesin, StrangerOrders, Noserenda and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5615218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa.logan Posted October 10, 2020 Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 Reveal hidden contents The Old Ones are ‘reptilian’.Trazyn, as is perhaps already established elsewhere, deploys parts of his collection on the battlefield as allies when required. Orks invade a world and use a combination of giant straws and tellyportas to siphon off the seas to use as coolants in their space fleet. Imperial settlers build a colony on top of an Exodite one, unable to carve or unwilling to destroy their building they just bolt the usual array of aquilla and skulls onto the Eldar structures; their sewage works become a major cathedral... At one point Orks and Necrons fight on an Imperial world, it’s revisited by the Necrons a couple of millenia later, there’s a stained glass window depicting especially skinny and tall Astartes… “Silver Skulls Chapter defeats the ork invasion,’ Trazyn said with clear relish. ‘There used to be a statue in the square, thirty khet high. They used to light candles and sing hymns to it. A few centuries ago the Inquisition got wind of it and did a little cleaning up. Removed it for “renovation” where it was never seen again.’ ‘You stole it, did you not?’ ‘Well, of course. And I hardly think it counts as stealing if it’s my likeness. It’s my statue, after all.’ Orikan snorted. ‘Worshipping a necron. Poor idiots. I suppose they have a head start on the rest of the galaxy. The Awakening is nearly imminent.” Trazyn has various Astra Militarum regiment’s musicians in his collection, staging concerts of traditional Vostroyan, Tallarn and Tanith music. Imperial music is generally composed using a 7-note scale. Sandlemad, Loquille and Noserenda 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5615286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rookie40K Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Sounds like a lot of cool stuff. Thanks for sharing brothers! I will purchase the audio today. aa.logan and Medjugorje 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5615302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa.logan Posted October 10, 2020 Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 Reveal hidden contents Necron swearing doesn’t relate to bodily functions, as they have none.We see Trazyn’s understanding of the other species of through the course of the book- genestealers are found only on Ymargl at one point, before becoming more prevalent in the galaxy.Several tombworlds have inadvertently been destroyed prior to awakening by incidental Exterminatus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5615306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa.logan Posted October 10, 2020 Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 Finished it. Well. This is a special book. The last 40k I felt like this about was probably 2019’s Mark Of Faith. Robert Rath has done the two things I look for in a BL book- fleshed out the universe with some great details and told a fantastic story. The book manages to render the Necrons as notably inhuman but still fully relatable while telling a story that was genuinely pleasing, taking me in totally unexpected directions; several times in the book I sat basking in the smugness you get when you realise how the plot of a book really starts to slot together, events and connections that in retrospect seem obvious but you don’t see coming until it’s there. The book is blessed with charismatic lead characters, a pair of Necrons who are all too aware of what they’re missing- would have caught his breath *if* etc.- and it’s poignant; this absence is what drive both Trazyn and Orikan, but it manifests in very different behaviours; one cleaves to what they were, the other to what they could be and ultimately neither are ever going to be satisfied- the Flesh Times have passed, and no amount of carefully curated artefacts or transcendence beyond the physical will bring back what they both desire more than anything. It’s not all existential angst; the Necrons are perhaps the closest the already OTT 40k universe gets to true camp, and they’re incredible fun to be in the company of. The conflict between these two is manifested in almost a slapstick escalation; it calls to mind the classic shape-shifting magical duel trope as much as it does Tom and Jerry. We see a series of tit-for-tat raids into the other’s domain gradually escalate, despite their best attempts to second-guess their opponent. Groundhog Day and Catachan Devils are both weapons deployed in their feud. As the feud escalates, so do the consequences of their actions, eventually unintentionally drawing the attention of others. That geological maps need to be consulted for clarity at one point gives you an indicator of the timescale that their grudge unfolds over- 1,500 years is described at one point as ‘a cooling off period’. Natural evolution is a plot-point. We’re used to seeing the galaxy through the long-lived eyes of Astartes, but this is something else. Much of the action takes place on and around a single tomb world- we see it pass hands from civilisation to civilisation- Exodite Aeldari and the Imperium of Man both build on the ruins of what came before. Seismic events in the background of the setting flash past as minor points in the book’s narrative. ‘Civilisation’ is applied as equally to a coral reef as it is the Imperium by Trazyn, fundamentally there is little difference between the two for him- all impermanent, all interesting but ultimately of a lesser status than him. The hierarchies of the Necrontyr still haunt the Necron psyche, it’s no wonder that they place themselves so far above the galaxy’s other species. Trazyn, for all of this distance, is keen to learn from what he encounters- his arrogance is of a different kind to the one we usually encounter in 40k. Orikan, I’m contrast, professes to look down upon others- on seeing a human cafe, his response is “This is ridiculous. Standing here among these biologicals, pretending to be their equals. Watching them gargle bean water down their oesophagi, swilling it through their fatty insides. It makes one ill.”- but how much of that is jealousy? Trazyn bemoans the loss of Necrontyr music, Orikan responds with a defence of their replacement, algorithm chants. Music can evoke long-lost places and music, whereas these chants can reshape time. Both believe their preference to be superior, and, I suppose, they are both right. Noserenda, Taliesin, Sandlemad and 10 others 13 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5615335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSwordmaster Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 I might pick up the audio book of this then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5615383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khulu Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 I'm only 25% through so far but it might be the best Necron book I've read. Rath has so far done a good job of expanding the Necron culture and history without feeling like it's new or shallow. Most stuff he has mentioned really feels like there is more to it than he is showing us, which is a feeling I enjoy. aa.logan and Roomsky 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5618343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Man, I really felt for Trazyn when Reveal hidden contents Orikan didn't just show up on Solemnace to steal an artifact, but ended up rampaging through his exhibits, crushing priceless ancient Necrontyr pottery and such as a bargaining chip. And then Trazyn didn't even get it fixed with Orikan's chronomancy as agreed upon, because Orikan is a dick. No wonder Trazyn hates Orikan's necrodermis guts. aa.logan 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5618383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 I like the meaningless Krork tease...not Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5619536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH79 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 On 10/10/2020 at 5:32 PM, aa.logan said: Finished it. *snip* Well that was quite the write up, so good that I've just picked this up on Audible... got a grinder of a week ahead of me and this (along with CW's Bloodlines) will hopefully provide a nice distraction! aa.logan 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5619578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandlemad Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 This is wonderful. Rath is a fine writer, was very impressed with his stuff even just on a sentence by sentence level. Tom & Jerry is a fitting comparison and the humour’s there. It’s close to slapstick but Reveal hidden contents Trazyn accidentally causing a Ymargl genestealer infection as a by-product of trying to annoy Orikan was hilarious. And the fakeout with what you expect to be a broodlord/patriarch in fact being a flayer-cryptek, shortly followed by an actual patriarch, was great. Also, specifically on the imperial world building a statue of what they thought was a Silver Skulls librarian… The pause before Trazyn innocently asks Orikan if anyone ever built an adoring statue of him. Camp is right, between this and Nate Crowley’s Severed, the necrons offer immense potential for it. The point aa.logan picked up about civilisation is definitely a well-explored theme throughout. Coral, dinosaurs, humans, orks, not all that much difference as they're all on a spectrum and all far beneath the necrons. I liked the part where a self-reflective Orikan notes that as necrons are “soulless god-killers” they have no need to blaspheme for insults. As they have no biological functions they don’t use that for profanities. Everything they insult each other with is tied to their conception of nobility and civilisation (barbarian, vandal, primitive), and beyond that to their fear of death and bodily decay. That's good detail and the kind of thing that demonstrates an author really getting into the right headspace for a xenos book. I didn't know I needed two grouchy necrons wandering unseen through an imperial marketplace until we got this. Same for geological time, this could have been a simple 'twenty years later' gimmick but Rath wove it in to the book’s themes nicely. It also gave us excellent little bits like Orikan’s subjective time when trying to bust into the galleries, and especially Trazyn’s melancholy descent through the canyon on Serendade, watching the strata as he goes back in time, seeing the points at which he interceded related back to him in reverse order. I found it rather touching how even with all their burning hatred for each other, Trazyn still felt ashamed at the thought that he was one of the necrons who dragged Orikan in chains to the biotransferance furnaces. That that was still a sufficiently serious trauma that he dropped the irony to sincerely apologise to his most hated rival. Camp is a fair judgement in general but these kinds of moments shine through. I have quibbles. The battle scenes were only ok. I felt that Reveal hidden contents the final battle was both a retread of the midpoint betrayal/clash between Orikan and Trazyn, as well having a feel of toys being smashed together. It’s cool when you have a sudden surprise introduction of a Dark Eldar/AdMech/ork/imperial POV followed by a reversal in the battle. It was less surprising a reversal the third or fourth time, really did seem like Trazyn just digging more stuff out of his pockets. That's not quite bolterporn but it did make my eyes glaze over a little, which was unfortunate so near the book's end. But overall this was excellent. Will gladly keep an eye out for whatever Rath puts out next. aa.logan, DarkChaplain, StrangerOrders and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5619672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Tom & Jerry in 40K? Count me in! Just kidding. Always eager to read some great Xenos stuff, which we were lacking the past years. :tu: aa.logan and Knockagh 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5619688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockagh Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Damn I just read the first two chapters at lunchtime to see what it’s like. I can’t wait to get back to it! Has to be set aside while I finish the current reads but what an opening. This is the history I want! Now give me the Eldar fall! aa.logan 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5620286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Hm... I'm torn between this one and Brutal Kunnin'. Think I'm gonna start with the Necrons first. I'm expecting some greater world building and history stuff than from the other. aa.logan 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5620295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa.logan Posted October 20, 2020 Author Share Posted October 20, 2020 On 10/20/2020 at 5:28 PM, Kelborn said: Hm... I'm torn between this one and Brutal Kunnin'. Think I'm gonna start with the Necrons first. I'm expecting some greater world building and history stuff than from the other. I’d read Brutal Kunnin’ first; it’s a great book, and does what it sets out to do really well, but it pales in comparison to this. I’m glad that I’m not being my usual hyperbolic self and that those who’ve read The Infinite and the Divine are digging it as much as me. Kelborn 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5620310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH79 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Morning folks! So I've just started Act II and I'm struggling to find words to describe just how damn good this book is! It's early days as thankfully I'm only 1/3 of the way through, but right now it's up there with many of my favourites like Dante, Talon & Bile etc... I'm shocked that Games Workshop / Black Library haven't pushed this harder with a physical release or even a special edition... was so disappointed after Chapter 3 to find I couldn't give them more of my money until July next year for the physical release! My only genuine criticism thus far would be the choice of cover art, it's more Ben 10 than 40K for my liking Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5620540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockagh Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 The cover had originally put me off buying the book. I only bought it after seeing everyone in here saying it was a great read Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5620550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umbros Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 This is fantastic. A lot of thought has gone into giving this a Necron perspective rather than an alien who uses human idioms/swearing etc. Trazyn is such a wonderful character. aa.logan 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/366943-the-infinite-and-the-divine/#findComment-5620552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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