Dreadnought Heavy Plasma Cannon viable now?

[Karhedron]

The Heavy Plasma Cannon has got a definite buff being 2D standard and 3D on overcharge which makes it perfectly placed to take out Marines on low power and Gravis/Terminators when overcharging. While this is welcome, I am not certain if it is enough to put in contention over the even more buffed Multimelta.

 

Given that MMs have decent fast platforms in the form of Attack Bikes and ATVs, is there room for the longer range of the HPC on a Dreadnought?

[The Unseen]

I would say the heavy plasma cannon being stuck at d3 shots will continue to render it non-viable.

It really needs to be d3+1 imo.

Its only a little cheaper than the mm itself, and is generally worse.

 

The d6 on the redemptor version is certainly decent now. Swingy if firing at small units, but on average is good and has potential for absurd damage spikes if you get lucky, and not needing to overcharge to kill marines, and killing termies/gravis in one shot overcharged while being very good at stripping wounds off t7 tanks is definitely good.

The onslaught is still better vs 1 wound infantry, but that's good, as you can now pick between all the dakka or better dakka and both are useful.

[XeonDragon]

I think, on balance, the move to natural 1s causing death/mortal wounds has made plasma less viable across the board. I've always adopted the view that a plasma unit has to be viable without over charging, i.e. is it good a killing for its points without needing going kamikaze all the time?

 

I think assault hellblasters with 3 S6 shots do, I'm not sure the HPC on dreadnoughts does.    

[Swordsman]

Good points.

 

In my opinion, now MPI Dreadnought is very good the standard 2 dmg combines very effectively with the -4 AP and the dmg 3 is wonderful.

 

Planning to play a couple alongside three double HB/CYCLONE contemptor Mortis with my fists. They should pair very well.

 

Assault hellblaster at 3 shot are a sold choice (even if still expensive) I’m planning to try a squad on an impulsor with a captain to blast and grab objectives.

[Mandragola]

For Fists I'd go with autocannons on a contemptor Mortis. Autocannon now have the same number of shots as heavy bolters (I think everywhere) and the super doctrine still applies.

 

For a standard dread I don't think a heavy plasma cannon can compete at all with a multimelta, I'm sorry to say. The extra range is kind of nice, but what's a dread doing so far away?

 

However, the plasma option on a redemptor does look quite interesting. It's what I'm looking at using for my Fists, as the S9 D4 shots in devastator doctrine could come in quite handy against vehicles.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Plasma cannons got better but like Karhedron said in the OP not as much as MMs. So I don't think from a competitive standpoint that there is a place for them. I think we'll see melta get nerfed a little bit but until then it's kinda hard to justify vehicles in general.

[Swordsman]

For Mandragola, the HB is way better for fists compared to AC because of the chapter trait that doubles hits on sixes, also only the accelerator AC of suppressor got the third shot, the standard AC il still two shot.

 

A good contender is of course the MM, like it was well pointed, but that’s another setup (which I prefer with my Ultras, paired with a CCW”

 

However we miss the fw rules update.

 

For sure the new MPI of redemptor deserves some testing

[Mandragola]

I wouldn't buy a Contemptor Mortis till I'd seen the FW index - to see if its even in there for starters. I do expect all autocannons to get a third shot though. They do all have it in the codex (the turret and invictor have 6 shots for 2 cannons) and without that it would never make sense for armies like IG to take autocannons, as heavy bolters would be better.

 

I don't agree that the heavy bolter will be better for Fists if autocannons get 3 shots, and I expect that will happen. I know about the exploding 6s. The Fist super doctrine for +1 damage against vehicles only works for weapons with at least S7. Even without the super doctrine an autocannon will wound most targets better than a heavy bolter does, and this cancels out most of the advantage of the exploding shots.

[Closet Skeleton]

Heavy Plasma cannons in the errata for other factions are inconsistant so I was confused not having the book yet. Helbrutes still only get damage 2 on their plasma.

 

Only Primaris Accelerator Autocannons are 3 shots, they got the extra shot in exchange for the -2 AP they had in 8th ed.

 

Mortis dreads aren't Primaris. Is the Kheres Assault cannon still S7? That might be useful on an IF Contemptor Mortis.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Closet Skeleton