Legacy of Caliban trilogy by Gav Thorpe ... thoughts?

[Helias_Tancred]

I'm reading this again for the second time. I first read it around 3 years ago. 

 

This second time through, and being more thoroughly knowledgeable on Dark Angel lore and culture, I'm not sure if I'm the fan of it I used to be?

 

My main beef is the vibe of incompetence it gives our chapter, especially at the higher level. Sapphon especially, and I'm not a fan of how it depicts Asmodai. He comes off as a two dimensional rabid attack dog sort, that is sort of a simpleton too. The same goes for how the rank and file characters are depicted too, especially the 5th company guys at the start of the series. They seem like elated little school kids going off on their first adventure. 

 

I don't mean to ramble but overall I'm just not digging the vibe it gives our chapter overall ... and I'm usually positive that the fact we've had mostly one author handle our stories.

 

 

 

 

edit: And I've read quite a bit of Black Library's works on space marines, from 40k to about 2/3 of all the Horus Heresy novels. I've definitely read much better depictions of space marines and their chapter than what is coming off in this trilogy for the second go of it.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Helias Tancred

[Master Sheol]

It's really bad

Period

[bigtrouble]

There were parts I liked, but Gav Thorpe’s writing is just so, so flat. Especially Ravenwing.

 

Hate to shoo people away from Dark Angels fiction though. Go read it if you haven’t. There are some good moments.

[Brother-Captain Gilead]

It is a weird trilogy because the overarching story is kind of interesting and appropriate for the Dark Angels, but the characters themselves are all just stumbling through it, all holding the idiot ball at various times. Unfortunately some of the more interesting new lore developments that it presents also suffer a bit from them being interesting at first and then becoming absolutely stupid once you think more deeply about them. I will detail an example inside the spoiler tag for the people who haven't read the trilogy.

 

Like for example it is an interesting idea that Cypher's plot armor is not infallible and that he has actually been captured several times over the ten millenia that he has been hunted. It kind of solves the problem of Cypher being really overpowered because he has actually not been able to evade a whole chapter hunting for him even as he keeps bringing himself to their attention with his activities. But then when you actually think about it, that leads to some rather convoluted writing that must be done to maintain the character of Cypher:

• His secret agenda must remain secret, so:
  • He must be impossibly resistant to torture, which is what the Dark Angels interrogator-chaplains are really good at
  • He must be impossibly resistant to interromancy, which is what the Dark Angels librarians are really good at
• He must always have the sword at his back, so:
  • There must be a reason for the mysterious sword that is at his back to never be removed from him
• His relationship with the other Fallen needs to remain ambiguous, so:
  • He must be able to kill / silence any other Fallen that come into contact with him before they can reveal any useful information about him to the Dark Angels

All three of these are more or less brought up because the writer knew that we would be thinking of them and then just handwaved away. Asmodai can't break him with torture, the interromancers can't do anything to him, even though they are supposedly masters of their craft and Cypher is not a psyker or null. Asmodai touches the sword, gets a feeling that touching it is a bad idea and then it is just ignored. They take one of their captive Fallen Angels to Cypher, he suddenly just kills that Fallen Angel while he is bound by chains and all the other Dark Angels around can do nothing to stop it, and then they just stop trying that even though they probably had other Fallen Angels imprisoned in the Rock at the time.

 

Like I said, a simple and interesting / intriguing idea, but if you don't think through on the implications, then you need a ton of handwaving to keep continually justifying it.

 

Oh and agreed about Sapphon, I like him as a concept (an interrogator-chaplain that has empathy and is rather non-orthodox in his thinking), but with the number of risks that he takes that end up in horrible and completely foreseeable failure, he should not be anywhere near a commanding role by the end of the trilogy.

[G8Keeper]

I have to say I'm not a fan of Gav's DA writings, the fact he has written the Luther book doesn't fill me with confidence.  There is always an aspect of DA being inept or floundering around after the Fallen who more often than not outwit them, so it looks a bit like we are Wile E. Coyote chasing the Road Runner. There needs to be more grim determination and unwavering dogged pursuit, giving a an inexorable feel to the whole situation.

 

That being said, the three books are quite entertaining in a fashion and are definitely worth a read.

Edited October 14, 2020 by G8Keeper

[Cpt_Reaper]

The Legacy of Caliban trilogy works a lot better if you pretend it didn't happen. I mean...the ending just...any and all positive moments in the novels was overshadowed by that "reveal".

I consider all 3 books non-canon, as with Angels of Darkness and War of Secrets.

 

However, I must state that I like Descent of Angels, Purging of Kadilus, Lion El'Jonson: Lord of the First. Fallen Angels is...tricky only because of the arguments I've had over the fates of two characters

[Gederas]

I'm still reading through, just finished Ravenwing and the short story attached to it. Currently starting Book 2 in the Omnibus.

 

I don't mind it. When people say Gav's writing is bad, I don't see it. Like, yeah. He's no ADB, but that's the case with most of the writers that aren't ADB :lol:

 

Then again, I grew up reading Harry Potter and the Inheritance Cycle, so I suppose my tastes (or lack thereof :lol:) make sense. Dry prose doesn't bother me I guess because a lot of my formative novels I read were quite dry and bland?

 

I'm not a fan of how it depicts Asmodai. He comes off as a two dimensional rabid attack dog sort, that is sort of a simpleton too.

Wait.... You're telling me he's not a two-dimensional rabid attack dog? Because most of the fluff I've read about him comes across as that.... :lol:

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Keystone Cops comes to mind when reading the trilogy.

Sure it does have some cool stuff (like TDA training process) but those don't make up for the train wreck that is the story arch. I read it some times over the years and it ages like milk.

[Helias_Tancred]

The Legacy of Caliban trilogy works a lot better if you pretend it didn't happen. I mean...the ending just...any and all positive moments in the novels was overshadowed by that "reveal".

I consider all 3 books non-canon, as with Angels of Darkness and War of Secrets.

 

However, I must state that I like Descent of Angels, Purging of Kadilus, Lion El'Jonson: Lord of the First. Fallen Angels is...tricky only because of the arguments I've had over the fates of two characters

 

Fully agree with your sentiment especially War of Secrets. It was a major letdown.

 

I was a fan of the Azrael novel. One of my favorites.

[Brother-Captain Gilead]

 

The Legacy of Caliban trilogy works a lot better if you pretend it didn't happen. I mean...the ending just...any and all positive moments in the novels was overshadowed by that "reveal".

I consider all 3 books non-canon, as with Angels of Darkness and War of Secrets.

 

However, I must state that I like Descent of Angels, Purging of Kadilus, Lion El'Jonson: Lord of the First. Fallen Angels is...tricky only because of the arguments I've had over the fates of two characters

 

Fully agree with your sentiment especially War of Secrets. It was a major letdown.

 

I was a fan of the Azrael novel. One of my favorites.

 

 

I liked the novel about Azrael as well with only one minor caveat, hidden behind a spoiler again:

 

The part where he must declare loyalty to the Dark Angels above everything and everyone else as he is ascending to the rank of Supreme Grand Master and the ritual as a whole. All of the DA inner circle acting weird and clearly under the influence of something else (probably the Watchers in the Dark) just makes it absurd that the chapter that is the most paranoid and secretive just completely ignores the Watchers and don't really care to figure out what is their agenda and what they are after. I like the Watchers when they are just that, watching and monitoring. When they seem to be pulling the strings and manipulating Azrael until he betrays his oath to the Emperor and to the Imperium it makes me wonder why the Dark Angels haven't just broken out the phosphex and just burnt them all.