Going against the grain - Shooting White Scars

[Relic]

Hi folks - so I have an old firstborn SM army that I am considering whipping out now with the new codex and improvements to the firstborn. My model collection is limited and tends towards more shooting then assault.

 

I am considering which chapter best fits my play style. Currently I think Raven Guard or White Scars for their deployment and movement stratagems. I am slightly leaning towards the scars as I think they have the better movement and combat ability both of which I value a lot in 9th.

 

So whilst my army is shooting based, I think the white scars add some mobility and ability to punch when needed. Clearly this is against the norm of white scars builds which tend to focus on the assault phase with some shooting support elements where essentially I am thinking of the opposite dynamic.

 

Particular elements that white scars complement shooting is the ability to advance snd shoot assault weapons, make heavy weapons in a unit be fired as assault weapons, ability to jump out of a moving rhino, outflank units for 1CP flat, fall back and shoot for a unit. All really solid I think for a mobile shooting army.

 

Thoughts?

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Everything you said is what WS do.  They are not as close combat oriented as World Eaters or Black Templars.  I dunno what to add.  I mean it is a marine army so it will hit on 3s and rerolls lots of stuff.  How could the shooting be bad really?  Just get a bunch of intercessors, some bikes, a chaplain on bike, the Khan and you are good to go.  

[Rik Lightstar]

Not getting penalties to hit when advancing with Assault Weapons is certainly useful, especially for a lot of the Primaris units.

 

Firstborn have less units with Assault Weapons throughout so can't quite leverage the bonus as effectively.

 

Also, as Advance rolls are random it can be challenging to keep groups coherent, particularly when you roll low for the Characters that you're relying on for buffs and auras.

 

Rik

[6262]

I love using that feature to push eradicators forward and still be able to get a decent number of hits with the single volley.

 

Scars play a lot like my old Nids played (move forward; shoot while doing it; charge everything) just with more durability and a smaller body count.

[CCE1981]

If you want to do this I suggest taking White Scars Successors. Take the traits “Hungary for Battle”, for +1 to advance and charges, and “Rapid Assault” to avoid the penalties for advancing and shooting. Then take “Helm if the Plainstrider” to gain an additional + 1 to advance and charge rolls. Positioning will be incredible with these tactics, with close combat as a deadly fallback.

 

Edit: and White Scars no longer do anything for Heavy Weapons. That was largely taken care of in the core rules where only Infantry suffer penalties to move and fire heavy weapons.

Edited October 20, 2020 by CCE1981

[Rik Lightstar]

The advantage to playing White Scars over a Successor is the option to charge after your Advance and Fire, if there's 1 or 2 guys left on an objective then even with a shooty Marine list one of those units should be able to clear them with a single charge which wipes an enemy unit saving you using another unit to shoot them and gains you better board control.

 

Rik

[Mandragola]

I love using that feature to push eradicators forward and still be able to get a decent number of hits with the single volley.

 

Scars play a lot like my old Nids played (move forward; shoot while doing it; charge everything) just with more durability and a smaller body count.

You need to be a bit careful here. In the codex version of the Eradicator rules they can't double tap if they advance, so you'll only be getting one shot each. It's still nice to be able to take that shot with no penalty, but it doesn't come without cost any more.

 

There are also now very nice heavy weapons for Eradicators but you can't fire those at all after advancing, no matter what chapter you are.

[Rik Lightstar]

 

 

I love using that feature to push eradicators forward and still be able to get a decent number of hits with the single volley.

 

Scars play a lot like my old Nids played (move forward; shoot while doing it; charge everything) just with more durability and a smaller body count.

You need to be a bit careful here. In the codex version of the Eradicator rules they can't double tap if they advance, so you'll only be getting one shot each. It's still nice to be able to take that shot with no penalty, but it doesn't come without cost any more.

 

There are also now very nice heavy weapons for Eradicators but you can't fire those at all after advancing, no matter what chapter you are.

White Scars, Hunters Fusilade at 1cp let's you treat Heavy X or Rapid Fire X as Assault X for that turn if they've advanced.

 

But otherwise yeah.

 

Rik

[Relic]

Thanks, I think the mobility of scars combined with firepower makes them interesting as an option in 9th. In terms of firstborn units I was thinking combi melta sternguard, devs in a rhino and so forth.

 

Hunters fusillade is pretty sweet for a lot of units combined with the updated chapter tactic.

[Rik Lightstar]

Thanks, I think the mobility of scars combined with firepower makes them interesting as an option in 9th. In terms of firstborn units I was thinking combi melta sternguard, devs in a rhino and so forth.

 

Hunters fusillade is pretty sweet for a lot of units combined with the updated chapter tactic.

 

 

For the Sternguard as a Melta Squad in either a Rhino or DropPod I think they can be really effective unit with:

• CombiMelta and Powerfist for Sergeant
• 2 CombiMelta guys
• 2 MultiMelta Guys

For 165 points they have nearly the same Melta output as 4 Eradicators (actually better if advancing and using Hunter's Fusillade), they're better in Combat thanks to the fist, and they can crank out the 6 Bolter shots too while being in a MUCH cheaper transport and having a better move.

 

Rik

[FabulousRex]

 

 

Thanks, I think the mobility of scars combined with firepower makes them interesting as an option in 9th. In terms of firstborn units I was thinking combi melta sternguard, devs in a rhino and so forth.

 

Hunters fusillade is pretty sweet for a lot of units combined with the updated chapter tactic.

 

For the Sternguard as a Melta Squad in either a Rhino or DropPod I think they can be really effective unit with:

• CombiMelta and Powerfist for Sergeant
• 2 CombiMelta guys
• 2 MultiMelta Guys

For 165 points they have nearly the same Melta output as 4 Eradicators (actually better if advancing and using Hunter's Fusillade), they're better in Combat thanks to the fist, and they can crank out the 6 Bolter shots too while being in a MUCH cheaper transport and having a better move.

 

Rik

I'm about to buy 3 Attack Bikes instead of Eradicators for my Space Wolves. Its 120 Erads, 155 MMAB. Same number of melta shots, same toughness. 35pts gets you 3 more wounds, 3 twin bolters, 24" range +1A per guy, and 11" more movement. They are iconic for WS, have chapter stratagem support, and can outflank just as easily as Erads.

 

They're also unlikely to be hit with a mega nerf bat, Erads have it coming...

[Riddlesworth]

Attack bikes compare really favourably to eradicators atm. And even better once erads get hit with the nerf bat. But fast attack slots are at a premium for me. Although with the new FAQ I think I have a slot opening up to replace a unit of Outriders thanks to wound reroll aura going the way of the dodo.

 

Bolter inceptors, ATVs, attack bikes. Tough competition