Assault marines and Vanguard vets, new codex

[BrainFireBob]

1) The VV entry says any model can replace its bolt pistol with an item from the melee weapons list. The chainsword is on this list. But there's no points option for buying same. Soft nerf or oversight? (Double chainsword)

2) Eviserator. To sarge or not sarge? 5 man squad, jump packs, and eviserator is a buck ten- not bad for a Str 7 AP-4 high damage weapon with 10 effective wounds and fly. If not sarge, you can add more oomph with another weapon- but you lose an attack.

[Medicinal Carrots]

1) If points aren't listed, the item is free. Dual chainswords are definitely still on the menu.

2) If you're taking an eviscerator, give it to the sergeant, or give the sergeant a different weapon upgrade. The sergeant's extra attack is a 50% boost to whatever weapon he's carrying in the first round of combat, so you want him to have the best weapon in your squad to maximize it's effectiveness. Unless you're giving him a power fist or something, the eviscerator is best given to the best melee fighter in the squad, the sergeant.

[Karhedron]

Normally it is best to give the best weapon to the Serg but I think the assault squad is the exception to then rule. I think it is worth giving the Eviscerator to a regular dude allowing you to take a PF (for instance) on the Serg. Normally assault squads are limited to just 1 special melee weapon so the ability to double up in this way is definitely worth considering as it significantly increases the punch of the squad if they face any multi-wound opponents.

 

To some extent it depends on the composition of the rest of your army. You may have heavier weapons elsewhere and plan to use the assault squad as chaff clearers. Personally I like scatter my heavy weapons about a bit so I don't get stuck if my last surviving anti-tank unit it on the wrong side of the battlefield.

[BrainFireBob]

Trying a MSU drop list. Want to flood cheap but dangerous

[Mandragola]

I think jump pack guys are better off on foot. Deep strike charging is never reliable due to the 9" distance. Where people do make it work it's generally by using a single large unit that they support with stratagems to make it charge further - for example the bloodletter bomb. A MSU approach will inevitably see multiple failed charges.

[Debauchery101]

I think jump pack guys are better off on foot. Deep strike charging is never reliable due to the 9" distance. Where people do make it work it's generally by using a single large unit that they support with stratagems to make it charge further - for example the bloodletter bomb. A MSU approach will inevitably see multiple failed charges.

well it'll vary depending on chapter for sure. Like ravenguard who have tons of movement buffs and pregame moves.

 

My raptors and Deathwatch are currently getting new Vanguards. Mostly chainsword/claw with 1 or 2 shield marines.

 

I dont think assault marines are worth it though id rather take more outriders as ravenguard or thunderwolf riders as space wolves. Fast attack choices have gotten a lot better for marines.

[Closet Skeleton]

There's basically no reason to ever take assault marines over vanguard veterans. 10 Assault marines with 2 Evicerators and a power fist sergeant costs pretty similar points to 10 VV with 2 power fists for very similar S8 offence and a big difference in S4 attacks.

[Captain Idaho]

Always take the Jump Packs. The movement benefits make any 2 wound infantry very mean.

 

When it comes to dropping in, a simple Chaplain with Master Oratory will enable you to stand a really solid chance of getting into melee. ;)

 

I'm thinking Assault Marines are actually okay nowadays. They're cheap enough and are those good old 2 wound models that can put themselves into an awkward position for opponents. Great backup to Vanguard.

[Minsc]

Vanguard is probably my new favorite unit in the codex.
(And without Jumppacks they can count-as Honor Guard for those of us who converted this now squatted unit back in the day.)
 

10 Vanguard with Jumppack, Stormshields, 9 Lightning Claws and a Thunder Hammer on the Sergeant is less than 300 points and has no inherent weakness;
- It can deepstrike if needed.
- It's fast.
- It's efficient against hordes.
- It's efficient against elite units.
- It's resilient.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Minsc

[Mandragola]

Vanguard is probably my new favorite unit in the codex.

(And without Jumppacks they can count-as Honor Guard for those of us who converted this now squatted unit back in the day.)

 

10 Vanguard with Jumppack, Stormshields, 9 Lightning Claws and a Thunder Hammer on the Sergeant is less than 300 points and has no inherent weakness;

- It can deepstrike if needed.

- It's fast.

- It's efficient against hordes.

- It's efficient against elite units.

- It's resilient.

 

That's pretty much exactly the unit I'd been looking at. At first I just thought chainswords and storm shields but 3 points for a lightning claw is just excellent.

 

I'm a bit unsure on the best Sergeant weapon. The Relic Blade is interesting but the hammer is hard to pass up on. S7 on the sword isn't quite enough - it ends up being not much better than the master-crafted power swords loads of guys go around with now. The penalty to hit for the hammer isn't so bad if someone like Shrike or a Chaplain tells them to try harder.

 

I've considered having just 6 shields and four guys with paired claws. However, 9 guys with a claw each give you 36 attacks on the charge. If that isn't enough then 4 more attacks probably won't help. So it's shields all round, I think.

 

I've got a plan to make some of these. Unfortunately it's bloody expensive, based on Ravenwing Dark Talons from the chest up and something Primaris from the abs down. Van Saar shields, whatever arms they come with, and maybe an attempt to put nozzles on the back of the shins like Shrike and Suppressors have. Not sure whether to use phobos bodies or assault intercessors.

 

I do at least have a unit of Dark Furies that I don't need. I've got a vague plan to have 20 of these guys, which would be expensive.

[Debauchery101]

After just doing some play testing today I'm really liking VVs mostly armed with 1 claw and 1 chainsword. 2 shields/chainsword and a Powerfist/plasma pistol...which is mostly for rule of cool. But mathwise the 1 claw and 1 chainsword attack rock. I dont think you should take many shields. These guys in 5 man's are great suicide squads. If you have a plan you shouldn't need them to tank. Blade guard vets are so much better at that. Which I like to throw in after I send these guys in. Strats make them stupid hard to remove.

 

Also heres some kitbashed VVs from suppressors ill never use. I have 2 more sets of suppressors to convert. Maybe if we make a huge fit of it GW will release some cool primaris jump infantry like these. I'll try cutting the the legs up for other poses and have the grav-plates flipped back like the kayvaan shrike model. I was thinking of a dude doing a Liu Kang kick or something. My science brainwas thinking that with the grav/repulsor plates folded back it would be a super powerful move. I also was thinking of making some inceptors but shield in 1 hand and a double barrel plasma in the other and I got some spare aggro flamer bits for hoses and power packs

Edited October 22, 2020 by Debauchery101

[Mandragola]

Those suppressor-based vanguard look excellent. That's really good kitbashing. I've converted up 9 suppressors to have different poses myself, I've found it's relatively easy to exchange a suppressor leg from the knee down wtih an intercessor body, to get more poses, so basing vanguard on those is definitely an option. Unfortunately it's not much cheaper than my Dark Fury idea. It's tough to decide which to use. I do like the lightning claws the dark furies come with.

[Debauchery101]

Those suppressor-based vanguard look excellent. That's really good kitbashing. I've converted up 9 suppressors to have different poses myself, I've found it's relatively easy to exchange a suppressor leg from the knee down wtih an intercessor body, to get more poses, so basing vanguard on those is definitely an option. Unfortunately it's not much cheaper than my Dark Fury idea. It's tough to decide which to use. I do like the lightning claws the dark furies come with.

I totally forgot about those guys. I wish they were cheaper though

I'll try the intercessor legs idea. I have a few assault Intercessors left as well as quite a few Infiltrators

Edited October 22, 2020 by Debauchery101

[Mandragola]

 

Those suppressor-based vanguard look excellent. That's really good kitbashing. I've converted up 9 suppressors to have different poses myself, I've found it's relatively easy to exchange a suppressor leg from the knee down wtih an intercessor body, to get more poses, so basing vanguard on those is definitely an option. Unfortunately it's not much cheaper than my Dark Fury idea. It's tough to decide which to use. I do like the lightning claws the dark furies come with.

I totally forgot about those guys. I wish they were cheaper though

I'll try the intercessor legs idea. I have a few assault Intercessors left as well as quite a few Infiltrators

 

Here are some examples. It's just an intercessor body cut off at the knees, with the suppressor leg from the knee down stuck on. In most cases I've used the Suppressor's own arms but I've done some different guys, like the one firing his pistol for.

 

 

I've got nine of these guys, of which 6 are now painted (including the ones above, believe it or not). It would be simple to remove the arms from the three unpainted ones and replace them with choppy tools, to start a VV squad. I'd need loads more of course.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Mandragola