Raven Guard Successors -- (Vanguard Veteran heavy)

[L30n1d4s]

In some other threads people have mentioned that RG Chapter Tactics (i.e. better defense at long range from "free" cover and -1 to hit) don't necessarily line up with how their Relics, WL Traits, Stratagems, etc. seem designed to work (i.e. get close to the enemy via Mobility options and then ambush him with close-in shooting and melee).

 

 

This got me thinking, what if I designed a Raven Guard Successor Chapter that uses alternate traits to really maximize their abilities in the mobility/short-ranged shooting and melee department?

 

 

Going down this path, so far I have come up with the following:

 

 

GREY PHOENIX Chapter

***(Close-combat focused Fleet-Based RG Successors that emphasize mobile infantry, with almost all of its units using jump packs, as the "core" of their strike forces)***

 

CHAPTER TACTICS

1 - Born Heroes -- +1 to hit in melee on a turn in which they charged

2 - Tactical Withdrawal -- Can fall back and charge

 

"LYNCHPIN" Units

1 - Vanguard Veterans with Jump Packs (mainly SS/LC war gear)

2 - Inceptors and Suppressors

3 - Jump Pack equipped Characters (Captains, Chaplains, Librarians)

4 - Incursors -- one of the only "non-Jump Pack" infantry units (fluff-wise, they would serve a similar role what Pathfinder units do for airborne troops in real life; i.e. inserting before the main force to guide them in to their drop zones)

5 - Gladiator Reapers/Gladiator Valiants (fluff-wise, these tanks are dropped in from orbit with Jump Troops to provide mobile, mid-range anti-infantry and anti-tank firepower)

6 - Stormtalon Gunships (providing the mobile air support to make up for the fire power of these

 

 

In terms of game play, I envision this force working with the Vanguard Veterans as the "core," starting either on the board alongside a JP Captain with the "Swift and Deadly" WL Trait and JP Chaplain with the Litany for +2" to advance and charge distances (they can also use the "Infiltrators" Strat to get a free pre-game move) or with these two characters in Reserve, ready to come down Turn 2+. Either way, they gain +2" their advance and charge rolls (Chaplain Litany) and can advance/charge (WL Trait) and re-roll their Charge (Raven's Blade Strat). Once they get into melee, they are hitting on a 2+, re-rollings 1s (thanks to the Captain) with 21 LC attacks and they can fall-back and re-charge every turn (maintaining their +1A and +1 to Hit bonuses and allowing them to "bounce" between combats as necessary).

 

In terms of fire support, the Inceptors, Suppressors, and Gladiators provide the long-mid range shooting "base" around which the rest of the force can maneuver.

 

 

So, that is my take so far, but I am curious as to what everyone else has come up with. Any other Raven Guard brethren here have success with their own unique RG Successor Chapters that they are willing to share here with the rest of us?

 

Cheers,

L30n1d4s

Edited October 19, 2020 by L30n1d4s

[novalight]

Great breakdown of the combat capabilities using our supplement. It's a very similar vein of thinking to my own recently. One thing that I think has some serious potential for us is a strong mid board 'anchor' so to speak. We're in the particular position to throw a chief apothecary and a 10 man Heavy intercessor blob forward using MoA turn 1. Couple this with some infiltrating phobos support and you have quite a lot of presence in the mid board/enemy half. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by novalight

[Alcyon]

I love your concept here and I think it'll work out super cool, thematic and effective. It's very close to my vision of RG back when I last picked up the game in 7th/the beginnings of 8th edition. I actually faced an army with a plan similar to this in a recent 500pt tournament game, he used a Bike Captain, Chaplain on foot, Eradicators and some Scouts and MoA'd some Bladeguard into my shooty units turn 1, at which point the game was essentially over. This won't be possible in every situation but to have that power on tap is extremely strong.
 

You're definitely right that abilities like Master of Ambush, Raven's Blade, Strike from the Skies, Lay Low the Tyrants, Enveloping Darkness, Shadowmaster, Swift & Deadly, Master of Vigilance, the Ebonclaws and Raven's Fury all suggest a combat-focused army, while the main CT really suggests a long-range gunline. I think this creates a sort of schizophrenic army and though the new Successor Traits have broadly been nerfed, it does shine a light on how some of them could be used more effectively.

I think you might want to consider Whirlwind of Rage or Hungry for Battle over Tactical Withdrawal, though I get that part of your plan is to move back and allow backline shooters to do some damage before you charge back in. One other note is that Surgical Strikes won't be that effective in this style of list, so you might want to consider souping with another type of SM to shore up any weaknesses since AFAIK you lose special doctrines if you soup.

 

Personally I've been running Stealthy and Bolter Fusillades in my current campaign, which I'm now stuck with after the nerf to 18". I don't miss the -1 to hit in cover that much since I find it really constrains your movement, but it is tough to get 18" away these days with the objective focus on 9th. My list is very shooty-oriented and I mostly use Infiltrators and MoA to position units on objectives and then threaten powerful overwatch (Hellblasters, Aggressors) or countercharges.

 

I am looking forward to a Bike Chaplain with Swift & Deadly to try and get some turn 1 charges off on enemy objective holders or to try and pin them in their own DZ, but I haven't doubled down on the assault aspect of the army particularly since I'm running Primaris-only. I've even eschewed Bladeguard as I don't feel the models are super appropriate for my force, and with Impulsors losing Fly and going to 5++ I think they've lost quite a bit of utility. I may give them a shot outside Crusade when I can stack MoA and Rites of War/Steadfast Example on an Ancient.

 

I'm currently 4-3 having beaten Orks, BA, Tau, DG, and Necrons and losing to Thousand Sons, Custodes and Necrons twice, though most of those last few were not playing to the objectives properly in unfamiliar Crusade missions. It's not a super competitive league by any means but Space Marine shooting is quite strong and our models are pretty resilient. I like using the inherent strength of the codex to let me be competitive with a slightly more casual list, making games closer and more fun, than I do stacking every buff and playing only the best units to blow people out of the water.

[Dracos]

I've heard this theory about how our CT and other abilities are at odds with each other. While on the surface that appears true, it's my belief it just requires a different style of player to maximize. 

 

I've explained elsewhere how I believe a good army build actually requires 3 to 4 separate teams, each designed to a specific mission objective during the game.

 

Our CT is perfect for the defensive team that is designed to hold the hole objective. I have always used either plain Intercessors or Eliminators for this as they are both cheap and I don't see opponents threaten my DZ very often. I am intriques by this position being filled by Heavy Intercessors though. On a terrain feature with our CT and their innate toughness and the new stratagems. It's goigb to take serious contender to move them out and the firepower they can deliver is superior in some ways to the Eliminators.

 

This then leaves us with leveraging the Super Doctrine WT and Strats to move in fast and crack skulls. We might not be the blunt instrument of point and click that other melee armies are but we can take ot their characters much faster at range, mid range and in melee if needed in ways that should leave them going "... but ... but what happened?" Good Raven Guard player needs to have a plan for chopping off the head of the snake in T2 or T3. DO that and the body usually will die very quickly thereafter, in my experience.

[Mandragola]

I've heard this theory about how our CT and other abilities are at odds with each other. While on the surface that appears true, it's my belief it just requires a different style of player to maximize. 

 

I've explained elsewhere how I believe a good army build actually requires 3 to 4 separate teams, each designed to a specific mission objective during the game.

 

Our CT is perfect for the defensive team that is designed to hold the hole objective. I have always used either plain Intercessors or Eliminators for this as they are both cheap and I don't see opponents threaten my DZ very often. I am intriques by this position being filled by Heavy Intercessors though. On a terrain feature with our CT and their innate toughness and the new stratagems. It's goigb to take serious contender to move them out and the firepower they can deliver is superior in some ways to the Eliminators.

 

This then leaves us with leveraging the Super Doctrine WT and Strats to move in fast and crack skulls. We might not be the blunt instrument of point and click that other melee armies are but we can take ot their characters much faster at range, mid range and in melee if needed in ways that should leave them going "... but ... but what happened?" Good Raven Guard player needs to have a plan for chopping off the head of the snake in T2 or T3. DO that and the body usually will die very quickly thereafter, in my experience.

I tend to agree with this. One of the great things about the RG chapter tactic is that it gives the army some insulation against going second. It's very powerful to have the ability for a unit of vanguard vets to pile forwards if you're going first, or else take cover in some area terrain if going second.

 

Whether going first or second, I think the base CT is going to be great with heavy intercessors. A squad of these guys in cover near an objective will be very difficult to get rid of, especially if the midfield is full of your melee guys.

 

I'd add some units to consideration I think. Hammernators look like an excellent option for MoA on. Their 1+ save with RG CTs gives them extremely good armour saves. You can also potentially field them in a squad of 10, which is much more powerful than any 6-man Gravis unit you could move forward.