DW Command Squad

[Mobius0288]

An interesting approach to the command squad models/units, which are now playable for Deathwatch.

 

-If you include a Captain, you can take Company Vets w/o taking up a slot.

-If you include Company Vets, you can include an Apothecary, Ancient and/or Company Champion w/o taking up a slot.

 

I was looking at this from a standalone patrol perspective, as well dropping a durable kill team in a pod that could potentially hold its own for 2-3 turns.

 

-Captain

-Deathwatch Vets (5 + Blackshield)

-Company Vets (2)

-Chief Apothecary*

-Ancient*

*= drop one if standalone patrol

 

The idea is that the blackshield can take dual lightning claws for savage melee. My DW Vet squad would probably look like combi-melta Seargent, 3 SS/SB, 1 DW Frag Cannon and a LC Blackshield. Company vets take SB/SS and protect characters even if the Vets get separated (or lose 3 models). Maybe boltguns instead of SB to save some points.

 

Apothecary can be taken to add a 6+ FNP as well as heal, and the potential to use the combat revive strat if needed. The warlord trait is great and the relic could be useful, arguably more useful if trying to shoot character infantry.

 

The Ancient can be used in more of a suicide type of environment. If you make him a master, you can use his obj sec warlord trait to make life difficult for your opponent. His relic can be useful (2 melee attacks on fight back instead of 1), as the other "standard" relic focuses on morale rerolls.

 

Toying with the Chapter Champion a little... you could add this guy as a stand in Kill Marine. Limited to a MC Power Sword and Combat Shield (and pistol). Fights first against characters, 5 attacks with upgrade. His Warlord Trait allows you to REROLL CHARGE ROLLS. And its an Aura. And it applies to characters, as well as core units. His given relic is great for doing high damage to characters (relic blade equivalent). He could in fact be given the Shield Eternal relic to make him extra hard to kill, as he is -1 to hit in melee already.

 

All of this can be amplified by adding another drop pod with more DW Veterans, or you can try to time it for turn 2 for a coordinated deep strike with a 10-man Terminator or Vanguard Veteran unit. You could also try to use a Chaplain on Bike in coordination with the drop pod to try and reduce that charge distance or further improve melee.

 

What do you guys think? Too many points and we should just drop a 10-man Terminator unit with the Fury of the First strat? There's definitely potential in trying to make use of both the shooting phase and fighting phase.

[leth]

I personally am a fan of keeping it to a 5 man vet squad with no black shield, just so I can combat squad something else off that starts on the table, it also keeps them at 5 for blast weapons. 
 

I think a lot of this depends on the rest of your list, if the rest of the army can’t catch up they are just going to die on their lonesome as well as have a lack of units to buff/heal. 
 

it’s hard to say because I am running something similar, but it’s mainly as a character delivery/defense system to help the other units that are going to be at midfield rather than as a stand alone force. 

[Debauchery101]

I feel that right now they are not really points efficient. They can't technically take DW weapons for SIA unless i missed that. They really aren't much different than vets which currently have better options in loudout and have obsec. Which is a key strength for DW.

 

Opening up full DW wargear options later would make them a lot more valuable. But we might be getting SIA on some primaris which will put them behind a few steps again.

I like my Apothecaries but they are usually with my aggressors and Eradicators

[GrinNfool]

I don't see much worth in the company veterans honestly, they are just worse vets, no SIA, special DW gear, or Obsec.  I also don't rate the ancient particularly high personally, though I am sure other see it differently.  I do however think the chapter champion is going to be a viscous little blender for just 70 points.  Buy him his relic, ignore his warlord trait its meh.  However give him The imperiums sword or Champion of Humanity and he gets honestly more than a bit rediculous.  All this with 6" heroic intervention that can be towards a char, fights first etc.  I think for 70 points the chapter champion is a solid buy, especially as DW who don't really use our elite slots.

 

On the blackshield, depends on use of the squad, though he is a hefty anti-melee deterrent if you give him 2 lightning claws, propelling him to chapter master levels of attacks.  I think if you are going to put the squad anywhere near charge range a blackshield is a reasonable investment, just because if you get the chance to attack with him he is pretty scary.  Personally not afraid of 6-10 man squads, DW operates in those ranges anyways, often enough,  Not that many weapons REALLY benefit from blast vs us.  Although if you are going to cross the 6 man line I would add a couple terms, maybe a VV to the squad, just to make it a bit harder to remove.  I think if you are going to cross the blast threshold you may as well go whole hog with it.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by GrinNfool

[Lemondish]

I think the point of the Company Vets is as part 2 of the 3 part plan, not necessarily a piece you're bringing for their own independent value. You're taking them so that all these other support elements are freed from their Elites slot, opening up more space if you need it in your build. 

[Mobius0288]

It could potentially be used better in a transport rather then a drop pod if the movement after is disembarking (turn 2 going into turn 3 for example), but then you have the possibility of your opponent blowing it it before it gets where you want it to go.

 

The company Vets offer the same as DW Vets that would have storm bolters and storm shields. The difference is you can take them in small units to fit transports as needed and they prevent your characters from getting shot when a nearby unit shrinks down to less than 3 models I've seen quite few batreps where characters are left unprotected, especially warlords. Also by taking them, yes, the other units aren't taking up slots. That could free you up to take different types of dreads, aggressors, centurions, VVs or Terminators.

 

And depending on which command squad models you bring, you can tailor the squad to be shooty, melee or both. By simply taking the above example and adding another drop pod with 2 vet units, you create a sizable flank to do a lot of damage and will have some staying power. Things may change if the supplement allows us to deep strike units, in which you could definitely focus more on Proteus Kill Teams.

 

Pairing other units/tactics with this idea:

- Outriders and Bikers have a lot of reach on the first turn, would probably be able to support early pushes into objectives or enemy deployment zones

-- Chaplain Biker for extra buffs

-- Supporting ATV units can take on vehicles or infantry

- Storm hawks / talons

- Infiltrators, Incursurs, Invictus Warsuits and Spectrus Kill Teams have concealed positions; serving as a speed bump to objectives as well as clearing a space to deep strike a pod

- Impulsors can be run in coordination so that you have a fast move / disembark / shoot on turn 1

- Rhinos and Blackstars could be ran in a similar role, but turn 2 disembark / move / shoot / charge

[GrinNfool]

It could potentially be used better in a transport rather then a drop pod if the movement after is disembarking (turn 2 going into turn 3 for example), but then you have the possibility of your opponent blowing it it before it gets where you want it to go.

 

The company Vets offer the same as DW Vets that would have storm bolters and storm shields. The difference is you can take them in small units to fit transports as needed and they prevent your characters from getting shot when a nearby unit shrinks down to less than 3 models I've seen quite few batreps where characters are left unprotected, especially warlords. Also by taking them, yes, the other units aren't taking up slots. That could free you up to take different types of dreads, aggressors, centurions, VVs or Terminators.

 

And depending on which command squad models you bring, you can tailor the squad to be shooty, melee or both. By simply taking the above example and adding another drop pod with 2 vet units, you create a sizable flank to do a lot of damage and will have some staying power. Things may change if the supplement allows us to deep strike units, in which you could definitely focus more on Proteus Kill Teams.

 

Pairing other units/tactics with this idea:

- Outriders and Bikers have a lot of reach on the first turn, would probably be able to support early pushes into objectives or enemy deployment zones

-- Chaplain Biker for extra buffs

-- Supporting ATV units can take on vehicles or infantry

- Storm hawks / talons

- Infiltrators, Incursurs, Invictus Warsuits and Spectrus Kill Teams have concealed positions; serving as a speed bump to objectives as well as clearing a space to deep strike a pod

- Impulsors can be run in coordination so that you have a fast move / disembark / shoot on turn 1

- Rhinos and Blackstars could be ran in a similar role, but turn 2 disembark / move / shoot / charge

I guess I just don't subscribe to SBs anymore, so I can't get behind the squad too expensive for too little gain.  I get your idea is to get several "free" elite slots to, just don't think its worth paying the points for SB/SS when they are just about the same as bolters with SIA now.  Better vs GEQ worse vs most anything else.  5 SB/SS company vets will cost 145, I could get 5 vets with 4 boltgun/ss and an infernus for 131, or combi of your choice if you want to keep the SS for 130.  I just don't see the benefit here.  Their only advantage is the bodyguard rule, and not making certain models take up an elite slot.  Again though as DW we generally don't use all of our elite slots anyways though.  Granted things could change, but you have to run 2 chars 1 that you didn't have the slot for for it to matter.  Which means at that point you are trading points for slots.  Honestly if I want another char I could just trade 1 cp for a patrol. and it would probably be cheaper in a lot of lists, not to mention could even add a 2nd captain, or LT, not that DW would run an LT necessarily though.  The bodyguard rule I'll grant you, and if you feel in your local meta you really need that, then I guess I can see it.  There are other ways to protect your characters though.

 

Not sure the flyers honestly they don't get fielded to often, and we do have the corvus in that same point range, comparatively the corvus is a bit tougher, and a transport, while the marine flyers can bring a little more AV firepower.  Bikers/outriders, chappy bikers, and ATVs I think will all be solid choices for us though.  As will VVs although they might go as combat squad groups from a kill team instead for the obsec.  I think spectrus has a shot at being fielded, and you could use it like that, but I think another way might be better, but we will see.  Supplement will hit soon, then this can go from guessing to theorycrafting, because strats, and rules can drastically change the value of units.