Flail of the Unforgiven vs Nightbringer?

[olsol]

Just a quick question about the rules for the flail of the unforgiven against the Nightbringer's Necrodermis ability.

 

The flail's rule states: "Each time an attack is made with this weapon, excess damage it unflicts is not lost. Instead, keep allocating excess damage to another model in the target unit until either all the excess damage has been allocated or the target unit is destroyed." 

 

The Necrodermis rule states: "This model cannot lose more than 3 wounds in the same phase. Any wounds that would be lost after that point are not lost."

 

so which takes precedence? I'm leaning more towards the Nightbringer still being able to ignore those wounds but I might be missing something.

 

What do you think?

[UtariOnzo]

A bit of both, but it works in the Nightbringer’s favour. The flail’s excess damage rule applies to where more wounds are applied than the enemy model has, allowing you to apply those wounds to the rest of the unit. Necrodermis stops you losing more than three.

 

Basically, apply all of the wounds up to the Nightbringer’s remaining wounds, then apply excess wounds to the rest of the unit (which there won’t be as NB’s a one model unit). After that, Necrodermis kicks in and stops any more than 3 wounds being lost.

 

My opinion on this is based on the fact that Necrodermis doesn’t actively change how wounds are applied, and instead calls out if more wounds than 3 would be taken you just ignore them for the purpose of remaining health (they were still applied though!)

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Moved this to rule discussion forum but is still linked in the DA forum so it can have both forums input!

[ValourousHeart]

The BRB FAQ just covered this.

   Page 363 – Rare Rules
Add the following:
IGNORING WOUNDS VS. RULES THAT PREVENT MODELS FROM
IGNORING WOUNDS
Some models have a rule that says that they cannot lose more
than a specified number of wounds in the same phase/turn/
battle round, and that any wounds that would be lost after
that point are not lost. When such a model is attacked by a
weapon or model with a rule that says that enemy models
cannot use rules to ignore the wounds it loses, that rule takes
precedence over the previous rule, and if that attack inflicts
any damage on that model, it loses a number of wounds
equal to the Damage characteristic of that attack, even if it
has already lost the specified number of wounds already this
phase/turn/battle round.

   Rules that say models ‘cannot use rules to ignore the
wounds they lose’ take precedence over rules that
say that a model ‘cannot lose more than a specified
number of wounds, and any wounds lost after that
point are not lost.

 

 

So it sounds like the maces in the unit would max out at 3 damage to NB in total.  But the Flail inflicts all the damage even after NB has lost his 3 W for that phase.

[Rogue]

But the flail doesn't have the rule saying that enemy models can't use rules to ignore the wounds it loses. It just says that excess damage rolls over onto other models in the target unit.

 

As it doesn't have the rule, it doesn't supercede the NightBringer's rule, so can still only do, at most, 3 damage in a phase.

[Greywing]

As above--the Necrodermis rule doesn't have anything to do with "excess damage." The two rules in the original question don't interact at all.

 

The flail's rule is aimed at this provision in the "inflict damage" step of the attack sequence:

 

"If a model loses several wounds from an attack and is destroyed, any excess damage inflicted by that attack is lost and has no effect."

[Medicinal Carrots]

The flail rule never comes up, as there is no excess damage. All wounds are allocated to the Nightbringer, but he does not lose wounds after he's lost 3. Necrodermis works like an Apothecary's Narthecium, except automatic instead of on a 6+, and doesn't apply to the first 3 wounds lost.

[dice4thedicegod]

Yeah, I don’t think that the flail can end run around the necrodermis rule.

[Seahawk]

It does not. Max 3!