Possible changes in the new codex.

[Marshal Loss]

 

 

 

Other than the PBC (taking a single one just to take advantage of Disgusting Force seems like a good idea to me) and Fleshmower-equipped Bloat Drones, infantry over tanks all day every day. Our vehicles have been significantly impacted by the changes to DR and all of our infantry and characters are priced to move.

 

Suits me perfectly, I've always been a Terminator man above all else

 

But those terminators and infantry aren't anti tank and now are severely restricted in weapon options. We already had problems with anti tank in 8th and those problems are magnified in 9th with this codex.

 

To be honest I don't think enemy armour is much of a factor in stopping us from winning games in 9th edition.

 

 

I don't know how to respond to that kind of thinking. I don't know what opponents you play against but staring across at 3 Redemptor Dreads, Invictor Warsuits and Castellan robots as well as Sister of Battle tanks and Necron vehicles I absolutely have to factor in how to stop them in order to win games. If you are only facing infantry only lists in your local gaming more power to you.

 

 

I mean, and I don't say this as an insult because I'm no pro player myself, but you're the one coming from the scene where people are afraid to play against the new Mortarion, so your own group can't exactly be rock-hard hyper-competitive...? You missed the point, by saying they're not much of a factor in whether we win games or not I mean enemy armour isn't whats defining the meta/dictating who wins games at the moment. Individual mileage will obviously vary depending on your local meta, but 9th definitely isn't the edition of "kill them all" and certainly is not a game of scissors paper rock. This is a very powerful book, and we have the tools to either deal with or play around all of the units you described.

 

Not seeing much validity to most of the negativity around the place at the moment. Let the book digest before rendering judgement.

Edited January 19, 2021 by Marshal Loss

[McElMcNinja]

I played (using our new rules) against a scion army who brought 4 Taurox Primes and 3 Valkyries. My vehicles were 2 drones, a mower and a HBL. While not any of those things you listed, I did manage to destroy all of them except a TP.

Played against SW with 3 razorbacks and 2 dreads, killed all but a dread, but I was close.

Playing against Necrons and their only vehicle was a barge and he had the SK. With all his warriors and scarabs, much more dangerous to my army then the others I have faced.

 

I have seen what the PBC can do now, thinking of picking 1 or 2 up. I just don’t think they are necessary to win games that are based on holding objectives instead of killing things like before.

[Marshal Loss]

I played (using our new rules) against a scion army who brought 4 Taurox Primes and 3 Valkyries. My vehicles were 2 drones, a mower and a HBL. While not any of those things you listed, I did manage to destroy all of them except a TP.

Played against SW with 3 razorbacks and 2 dreads, killed all but a dread, but I was close.

Playing against Necrons and their only vehicle was a barge and he had the SK. With all his warriors and scarabs, much more dangerous to my army then the others I have faced.

Yeah this is exactly what I'm talking about. We've got the tools to get the job done. I'm far more worried about stuff like Necron obsec spam than enemy heavy armour

 

Curious what else you ran? Any good performers/MVPs?

Edited January 19, 2021 by Marshal Loss

[McElMcNinja]

My MVP was DP w/wings and relic sword. I didn’t get a chance to use the mower as people know what they can do and tend to target it first, so it would be the runner up. After that’s it’s just infantry; 2 units of 5 Blightlords, a unit of 3 Deathshroud, a unit of 10 PMs, 2x20 Poxwalkers, and a few characters.

 

And if people really are struggling with vehicle heavy armies, maybe it’s lack of good terrain. I don’t think we go over board, a couple of obscuring near the middle, some ruins, either craters or woods, and some crates. We roll for mission, place objectives, then terrain, once we agree on the layout, we game.

 

Edit: I will try and get some pictures up of a few of the games. I just struggle with that part as I don’t have a good place to hold pictures.

Edited January 19, 2021 by McElMcNinja

[Bulwyf]

 

 

 

 

Other than the PBC (taking a single one just to take advantage of Disgusting Force seems like a good idea to me) and Fleshmower-equipped Bloat Drones, infantry over tanks all day every day. Our vehicles have been significantly impacted by the changes to DR and all of our infantry and characters are priced to move.

 

Suits me perfectly, I've always been a Terminator man above all else

 

But those terminators and infantry aren't anti tank and now are severely restricted in weapon options. We already had problems with anti tank in 8th and those problems are magnified in 9th with this codex.

 

To be honest I don't think enemy armour is much of a factor in stopping us from winning games in 9th edition.

 

 

I don't know how to respond to that kind of thinking. I don't know what opponents you play against but staring across at 3 Redemptor Dreads, Invictor Warsuits and Castellan robots as well as Sister of Battle tanks and Necron vehicles I absolutely have to factor in how to stop them in order to win games. If you are only facing infantry only lists in your local gaming more power to you.

 

 

I mean, and I don't say this as an insult because I'm no pro player myself, but you're the one coming from the scene where people are afraid to play against the new Mortarion, so your own group can't exactly be rock-hard hyper-competitive...? You missed the point, by saying they're not much of a factor in whether we win games or not I mean enemy armour isn't whats defining the meta/dictating who wins games at the moment. Individual mileage will obviously vary depending on your local meta, but 9th definitely isn't the edition of "kill them all" and certainly is not a game of scissors paper rock. This is a very powerful book, and we have the tools to either deal with or play around all of the units you described.

 

Not seeing much validity to most of the negativity around the place at the moment. Let the book digest before rendering judgement.

 

 

I am not taking it as insulting. I possess the capacity to disagree with someone and not take it personally which seems to be a lost art on the internet lol.

 

Yes, 9th emphasizes board control and obj secured. It also leaves plenty of room for the other guy's vehicles to run over your troops and shoot them off the board unless you can stop them. It sounds like you don't even attempt to put vehicles or anti vehicles in your lists? I also am not trying to be insulting just curious.

 

My local meta is usually "power fluff" meaning we take hard hitting lists that we usually discuss before hand so no one brought say 9 vehicles and the other guy has nothing but infantry. It is rarely top tier competitive but I would definitely say it is competitive but fluffy. I try  not to just assume my local meta is how the entire army or game at large should be or is being played though to be fair.

[Irate Khornate]

Depending on that infantry those vehicles are going to get shredded. I can easily see a unit or two of Deathshroud and Mortarion taking the roles of anti tank in lists. Or just Morty/Deathshroud by themselves.

[jgascoine011]

 

Hmm interesting? Just how are you planning on dealing with tripple decimators with soul burners, backed up by 2 disco lords and 2 defilers all with a 4++ and exploding 6’s? Or 5 Castilian robots? Or pretty much any big thing that pumps out a bunch of MW

You do know those aren't even the kinds of lists winning tournaments at the moment, right? Being able to take on things like Necron obsec Scarab spam or Daemon players with triple KoS and/or an unkillable Lord of Change are far more pressing issues. 9th isn't 8th.

 

So all you have said is that DG cant be a non tournament winning list then lol.

You do realise that the decimators kill morty in 1 round of shooting not to mention any terminators etc with an average of around 28 mortal wounds + whatever damage the defilers disco lords and daemon prince can do.

[jgascoine011]

My MVP was DP w/wings and relic sword. I didn’t get a chance to use the mower as people know what they can do and tend to target it first, so it would be the runner up. After that’s it’s just infantry; 2 units of 5 Blightlords, a unit of 3 Deathshroud, a unit of 10 PMs, 2x20 Poxwalkers, and a few characters.

 

And if people really are struggling with vehicle heavy armies, maybe it’s lack of good terrain. I don’t think we go over board, a couple of obscuring near the middle, some ruins, either craters or woods, and some crates. We roll for mission, place objectives, then terrain, once we agree on the layout, we game.

 

Edit: I will try and get some pictures up of a few of the games. I just struggle with that part as I don’t have a good place to hold pictures.

 

Why the relic sword? It seems kind of pointless

A daemon prince with double talons and the AP pathogen makes him 8A S8 AP-2 D2, you loose a point of AP and plague weapon but you are either running Innoxerable or Mortarions Anvil, the only two decent ones, so you are either AP-3 or AP-2 but with re-roll to hit and wound while also preventing re-rolls etc

[McElMcNinja]

All this talk makes me wish we all could game together. Maybe my lists aren’t perfect or even good. The only way to get better is to play the kind of lists you are talking about.

The best part of the tournaments I play is when I go up against someone I’ve played before and we’ve both tweaked our lists. Like I’ve played the same knight player and he’s beat me 2 of 3 times while the same guard player I’ve beat 2 of 3 times. Sure I’m never at the top tables, but I don’t play the meta game. I go to have fun and play more people then the 4 I usually play against.

If anyone ever wants to play on simulator let me know, while not as fun, still like to get games in.

[McElMcNinja]

The sword is a plague weapon while talons aren’t, I like the re-rolls and flat 3 damage. Lots of things (besides us) have a FNP or multiple wounds, like vehicles, and I use him to hunt them down.

Also anything over AP -2 seems pointless as most invulnerable saves are 5++.

Edited January 19, 2021 by McElMcNinja

[Plaguecaster]

You can give a deathshroud champion the corrosive filth pathogen which adds 1 to any damage you inflict on vehicles so with the strength buff from it as well and the number of attacks he can dish out you should easily be able to deal with most vehicles if he can get close enough to them

 

Gw should of let us take death shroud as hq units

Perfectly fluffy, would work well like in hours heresy and would act like a lieutenant unit to help take hq options other than the psykers since they are out only option after the stupid 1 lord restrictions

Edited January 19, 2021 by Plaguecaster

[Marshal Loss]

 

Yes, 9th emphasizes board control and obj secured. It also leaves plenty of room for the other guy's vehicles to run over your troops and shoot them off the board unless you can stop them. It sounds like you don't even attempt to put vehicles or anti vehicles in your lists? I also am not trying to be insulting just curious.

 

We're not an army whose troops are easily run over and shot off the board though, which hearkens back to my original post. So long as we build an insurmountable lead they can do what they like. I don't find long-ranged AV a "must-take" for DG at all because many of our units are able to provide capable AV in a pinch provided we're able to close the distance - which, in 9th, is very rarely an issue for me. Can only speak to my own experiences, but if you look at the kind of lists being floated by Don Hooson & his ilk, you'll see what I mean.

 

I will say that I'm planning on rocking a single PBC to take advantage of the stratagem though. Seems too good to pass up. Other than that, the only vehicles I'll be using are Lawnmower Drones.

 

 

So all you have said is that DG cant be a non tournament winning list then lol.

Not what I said at all. I'd explain my perspective on things to you but it's pretty apparent from the galactic negativity found in all of your posts that your mind has been made up from the beginning, so I won't waste my time

[Bulwyf]

Yes at this point I think he is best served picking another faction that fits his desired play style, whatever that might be.

 

Let's don't encourage people to give up on their armies because they are being critical of a new book. I have had enough people say the same thing about me for Space Wolves and DG on here just because I don't white knight for GW.

[MegaVolt87]

Dumb question, asking anyway- predators in the new DG book are they split between destructor and annihilator like SM or are they just the one entry still? 

[Raktra]

 

 

Hmm interesting? Just how are you planning on dealing with tripple decimators with soul burners, backed up by 2 disco lords and 2 defilers all with a 4++ and exploding 6’s? Or 5 Castilian robots? Or pretty much any big thing that pumps out a bunch of MW

You do know those aren't even the kinds of lists winning tournaments at the moment, right? Being able to take on things like Necron obsec Scarab spam or Daemon players with triple KoS and/or an unkillable Lord of Change are far more pressing issues. 9th isn't 8th.

 

So all you have said is that DG cant be a non tournament winning list then lol.

You do realise that the decimators kill morty in 1 round of shooting not to mention any terminators etc with an average of around 28 mortal wounds + whatever damage the defilers disco lords and daemon prince can do.

 

At 930pts just for the double Discos and triple Decimators, I'd hope they'd be able to kill a 490pt model...

[Marshal Loss]

Dumb question, asking anyway- predators in the new DG book are they split between destructor and annihilator like SM or are they just the one entry still? 

Yep - Chaos Predator Annihilator & Destructor

[MegaVolt87]

 

 

Yes at this point I think he is best served picking another faction that fits his desired play style, whatever that might be.

Let's don't encourage people to give up on their armies because they are being critical of a new book. I have had enough people say the same thing about me for Space Wolves and DG on here just because I don't white knight for GW.

There’s being critical and then there’s being, at best, ridiculous. I can’t begin to think I can prove someone’s intentions either way, so I’ll concur with your overall point and utilize the ignore button as it’s intended (not on you obviously).

 

Anywho, in regards to the new campaign book that’s around the corner, I think we may see rules to improve our daemon engines. As far as I remember the campaign was based around ad mech things and so it’s within the realm of possibilities that we get our own War of the Spider rules back in some form as they relate to engines.

 

To be critical, I think that’s a horrible precedent for the new edition and would have preferred the rules be in the codex, but it is what it is I guess. Maybe the rules will only be for crusade.

 

Edit: referring back to the WarCom article Typhus is indeed attacking the Forge World Metalica “for his own nefarious” purposes; have to think some love is coming for our daemon engines and vehicles.

 

 

Lost track of that new campaign book thread. Was it ever confirmed the DG content would be for matched play or was it only going to be for crusade only? 

[Marshal Loss]

It's not confirmed, but I'd bet my left leg that the campaign supplement will contain matched-play rules for the DG. Nobody is going to buy it otherwise

[Plague _Lord]

Ninja... is the simulator free or do yuo have to buy it? I  would be happy to test some lists against you (deathguard and other armies) cause I can get in around 1 game a fortnight at the moment.

 

If you go with the PBC, I'm betting that it's the AT version yes?

 

Thinking about a 10man assault unit comprised of::

10 plague marines

2 plague cleavers

2 flails

powerfist on champ

 

That's 250pts that hands outs around 46 max damage from mutli damage weapons. With the strat that enables spillover damage I think this squad becomes and effective all around combat unit that can take out both vechicles and hordes. I think the corrosive haze strat acutally made great paplgue cleavers reallly good - with good damage rolls we will be wiping whole squads out with just a pair of these.

[Kallas]

It's not confirmed, but I'd bet my left leg that the campaign supplement will contain matched-play rules for the DG. Nobody is going to buy it otherwise

 

Crusade stuff is pretty great. The Beyond the Veil book is fine, and it doesn't have any Matched Play stuff in it.

 

Different strokes and all that.

[McElMcNinja]

If I went with 1 PBC it would be with Entropy, for 2 I would take 1 of each. I never liked them at BS 4+ and eventually sold them, same with my Haulers. I’m glad I waited on getting more Haulers as the new point cost doesn’t look efficient enough. I would much rather have the PBC now and will eventually go an pick a couple up.

Sold my Morty as well, luckily I still have access to him. If he’s not hit with too many nerfs come FAQ, he’s on my list of to get again.

 

As far as PMs and melee weapons, I’ve been mulling that over because of Haze. For 306 points:

Champion w/Plasma & Sword

2 Flail

2 Cleaver

2 Mace & Axe

2 Spewer

1 BL

Over the top, heck yes! Waste of point, also yes. But properly screened and they aren’t going to be targeted. Put them on an objective with Blightspawn and Putrifier, and it’s a safe bet they will be there till the end. I’m going to run a game with them this weekend against Necrons, I will let you know how they do.

 

TableTop Simulator has a one time fee, but everything else you need is free.

[Marshal Loss]

 

It's not confirmed, but I'd bet my left leg that the campaign supplement will contain matched-play rules for the DG. Nobody is going to buy it otherwise

 

Crusade stuff is pretty great. The Beyond the Veil book is fine, and it doesn't have any Matched Play stuff in it.

 

Different strokes and all that.

 

 

Beyond the Veil is explicitly labelled as a "Crusade Mission Pack", as is the upcoming Plague Purge, nobody purchasing either book is under any illusions as to what they're going to find inside. Expectations are different for for actual campaign supplements.

 

Crusade is good though, no disagreement there

[ShotgunFacelift]

 

 

I'm extremely confused about the wording tho for all the upgrades though so am I right s

With this

Champion can take a plasma gun, squad can take a blight launcher, can take another if 10man. I can then take an additional plasma gun for every 5 models so ten man would be 2 plasma guns. Does this mean in a 10man squad we can take 3 plasma guns and 2 blight launchers?

Yep, that's correct

That sounds like a spicey cheese combo they did not believe players would think of...

[Kallas]

 

 

It's not confirmed, but I'd bet my left leg that the campaign supplement will contain matched-play rules for the DG. Nobody is going to buy it otherwise

 

Crusade stuff is pretty great. The Beyond the Veil book is fine, and it doesn't have any Matched Play stuff in it.

 

Different strokes and all that.

 

 

Beyond the Veil is explicitly labelled as a "Crusade Mission Pack", as is the upcoming Plague Purge, nobody purchasing either book is under any illusions as to what they're going to find inside. Expectations are different for for actual campaign supplements.

 

Crusade is good though, no disagreement there

 

Hmm, that's fair. Though personally I wouldn't expect any Matched Play or tournament-esque rules in a Campaign book. Campaigns are almost always narrative based - I think something more like Vigilus that is labelled as Narrative is most likely. Could definitely do with being clearer about what it is though, for sure.

[Marshal Loss]

 

 

 

It's not confirmed, but I'd bet my left leg that the campaign supplement will contain matched-play rules for the DG. Nobody is going to buy it otherwise

 

Crusade stuff is pretty great. The Beyond the Veil book is fine, and it doesn't have any Matched Play stuff in it.

 

Different strokes and all that.

 

 

Beyond the Veil is explicitly labelled as a "Crusade Mission Pack", as is the upcoming Plague Purge, nobody purchasing either book is under any illusions as to what they're going to find inside. Expectations are different for for actual campaign supplements.

 

Crusade is good though, no disagreement there

 

Hmm, that's fair. Though personally I wouldn't expect any Matched Play or tournament-esque rules in a Campaign book. Campaigns are almost always narrative based - I think something more like Vigilus that is labelled as Narrative is most likely. Could definitely do with being clearer about what it is though, for sure.

 

Something like Vigilus or PA was what I meant by a campaign supplement anyway, and is exactly what I expect this release to be - these sorts of books are almost always used as vehicles for rules releases by GW anyway. Good way to drum up sales no doubt!

 

Will be interesting to see what we get either way: the description was that it would let us represent Typhus' forces, but these are the same people that told us the LoV was a daemon engine specialist so who knows :P