Time to replace Captain Smash with Captain Swash?

[Karhedron]

I think we have to face facts that Captain Smash doesn't swing it like he used to. Between the loss of DVOS, AoW,, Red Rampage, rerolling his own 1s and the nerf to Thunder Hammers, he just doesn't function as self guided missile anymore. So if we want to run a melee Captain, what is a good loadout for him now? My initial thought is the following. I present, Captain Swash!

 

85 Captain

25 Jump Pack

10 Storm Shield

10 Relic Blade

- Master Crafted (Relic)

- Imperium's Sword (WLT).

 

This build is pretty good and gives us a 2+/4++ Jump Character with 6 Attacks at S8, AP-3 and 3D on the turn he charges or HIs (going up to 7 from T3 onwards). Obviously he isn't going to solo Knights anymore but he still puts out a ton of damage and 1-shot 3W models like Terminators and Heavy Intercessors. Have him lead some Sanguinary Guard and they will be hitting on 2s and rerolling 1s which makes for a tough, mobile and deadly bodyguard.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Yeah it’s a good build, and until the supplement drops and gives us access to our stolen relics, it seems like it’s one of our few remaining options.

 

You can also give him Death Visions(after the supplement, if it’s still possible...:/ ) and he’ll have another attack and a 6+++, even though interestingly, shouldn’t be able to fall back.

[nagashnee]

Smash chaplain on bike is also a contender . Not only similar dps but also army buffer.

[Indefragable]

A Teeth of Terra ripper also has potential and Captain Blender (dual LC) has a strong case yet again.

[The Unseen]

I personally don't think the storm shield is worth it for captains really.

I think I'd rather have a gun to take advantage of the 2+ BS rather than getting a 2+ armor save.

But otherwise I agree, the Relic Blade is the new no-brainer option for everyone who isn't wolves.

Though the Teeth of Terra are also really good, but you obviously give up the D3, but get more attacks.

 

Having a captain be equipped to take on squads of multi-wound infantry is his new best case, with all the nerfs to him.

 

GW apparently really didn't like captains being badass.

[Karhedron]

I personally don't think the storm shield is worth it for captains really.

I think I'd rather have a gun to take advantage of the 2+ BS rather than getting a 2+ armor save.

I like the 2+ to protect against a hail of small arms fire or horde attacks if he fins himself away from his bodyguard for any reason but I do take you point. What gun would you go for do you think? A combi-melta seems like a good option.

 

Though the Teeth of Terra are also really good, but you obviously give up the D3, but get more attacks.

Yes, Teeth of Terra does look good. Although I actually think this is a relic worth saving for any Characters who don't have the option to take something more deadly than a chainsword normally. The Sanguinary Priest springs to mind for this role although I must admit, if I am running him on the front line to heal/res melee units like Sanguinary Guard, I would rather give him something defensive like Armour Indomitus.

 

Having a captain be equipped to take on squads of multi-wound infantry is his new best case, with all the nerfs to him.

 

GW apparently really didn't like captains being badass.

I think they didn't like the sight of a centuries-old leader steeped in wisdom and experience hurtling across the battlefield like a guided missile before taking down a Knight in a self-destructive blaze of glory.

 

Although I think it is actually kinda fluffy for a son of Sanguinius.

Smash chaplain on bike is also a contender . Not only similar dps but also army buffer.

Why not both?

[gkos]

Defo needs a better name, I would say Cpt. Swish but I am sure we can do better than that!

[Karhedron]

Captain Swash definitely suits him if he takes any kind of sword.

 

Remember thy swashing blow, thy swashing blow, that crushing blow of yours for which you are so famous!

[ShibeKing]

Or just Captain Slash.

[Sugarlessllama]

Slash Captain. Or Inigo Montoya. 

[Indefragable]

Depends entirely on the head on the model:

 

Golden flowing locks: Captain Swish

 

Epic helmet face mask: Slash Captain 

 

Captain with a top hat pulled down over his eyes and a mean guitar solo: Captain Slash

[Morticon]

I feel that the Storm Shield is absolutely worth it buuuuuuuut......only when you're rocking Angel Artifice or Armour Indomnitus.  

 

Its not bad without,  but not great- but that's the relic slot gone, then. 

[Xenith]

I was running a relic blade captain when they bumped hammers up to 40pts, to good effect. He gets S7 and still wounds t4 on a 2+, if you get him to S8 with Imperium's Sword, then he's wounding rhinos/dreads on a 2+ still, which is nasty. 

[Karhedron]

I feel that the Storm Shield is absolutely worth it buuuuuuuut......only when you're rocking Angel Artifice or Armour Indomnitus.  

 

Its not bad without,  but not great- but that's the relic slot gone, then.

It's a tough one. You can either dial up the damage by Master Crafting the Relic Blade or dial up the durability with one of the relic armours. No more having your cake and eating it.

 

Angel Artifice bumps up his cost since you have the buy the CM upgrade. It's not out of the question but I am not sold on this one yet. Especially if running with SG who hit on 2s and reroll 1s anyway if near a Captain.

 

Armour Indomitus is good but I am planning to give that to my Sanguinary Priest. I want him on the front line buffing the SG and/or resurrecting Plasmaceptors if they get carried away. Without some sort of special armour, he is just a tad too squishy. I guess we also have the Artificer Armour which can boost us to a 1+ save with the SS but it all depends on whether that survives into our new codex. Fingers crossed....

[Jolemai]

fwiw, there will be a new "Captain Builds!" thread when our Supplement drops.

[Jbird]

I feel that the Storm Shield is absolutely worth it buuuuuuuut......only when you're rocking Angel Artifice or Armour Indomnitus.

 

Its not bad without, but not great- but that's the relic slot gone, then.

Isnt armour indomitus better than a storm shield on a captain without having to take a storm shield, as you already get a 4++ on the captain?

[Karhedron]

 

I feel that the Storm Shield is absolutely worth it buuuuuuuut......only when you're rocking Angel Artifice or Armour Indomnitus.

 

Its not bad without, but not great- but that's the relic slot gone, then.

Isnt armour indomitus better than a storm shield on a captain without having to take a storm shield, as you already get a 4++ on the captain?

 

The key is that it gives the Captain a 2+ armour save which the SS then boosts to a 1+. We also have the Artificer Armour (for now at least) which can achieve the same effect. Angel Artifice is really nice but I am not sure about paying 40 points on top of the Relic slot to get it.

[Debauchery101]

I've had the chance to play a lot of 9th games with various marines lists. Not a whole lot with the new indexes although my current preferred jump captains just focus on offense

 

Blood angels-

Relic blade, inferno pistol

DW-

Relic blade, DW combi melta

 

Salamanders and Space wolves have better options for a tank role

 

I dont think master crafting a relic blade is worth it because. Its pretty good all by itself.

The storm shields which I like better now hasn't been a problem when I've chosen not to take them.

 

BA and SW can blenderize everything in engagement range. If youre stuck in with a tough unit. that BA cpt inferno pistol definitely is worth the 5 points.

For the DW cpt that DW combi weapon enables him to keep pumping out damage even when he's not able to engage.

 

I'd even consider just using a biker captain in blood angels over the jump pack. unless you need the deep strike

Edited October 27, 2020 by Debauchery101

[Charlo]

Pair of Master-Crafted Lightning Claws anyone?

 

In Assault Doctrine your basic Captain is gettin 8 Attacks that re-roll with a +1 to Wound at AP3 D2 (one attack may be at Damage 1, but its a weird interaction with pairs of LC)

 

Rip 'n' Tear!

[Karhedron]

Twin LC Captain Slash is pretty tasty. Add Imperium's Sword and he goes up to 9A and S5 on the charge/HI. Edited October 27, 2020 by Karhedron

[Charlo]

Twin LC Captain Slash is pretty tasty. Add Imperium's Sword and he goes up to 9A and S5 on the charge/HI.

 

That's pretty nice actually! S5 is the breakpoint that makes it worth hitting T8 (4+ rerollable to wound!) if Death Visions survives into the new codex maybe he'll have 10 attacks?!

[Indefragable]

There’s a thread from yesteryear I did about how S5 re-rollable To Wound is the “perfect” all-purpose weapon profile for BA in melee...

[Indefragable]

Comparing two builds:

 

It's so incredibly close, with the slightly cheaper build giving you the re-rollable wounds which I think would ultimately outweigh the 2+/4++ from the Teeth of Terra build. 

 

 

Captain Blender:

-Jump pack

-Lightning Claw x 2

Relic/SIW: Master-Crafted Weapon (Lightning Claw*

WLT: The Imperium's Sword

115pts

8x S6 AP-2 D:2 attacks, re-rolling To Wound

 

A4 + 2 (claws) + 1 (Shock Assault + 1 (WLT)

 

Captain Grill**:

-Jump Pack

-Storm Shield

-Chainsword

-Relic: Teeth of Terra

-WLT: The Imperium's Sword

120pts

9x S6 AP-2 D:2 attacks 

4 base + 3 ToT + 1 Shock Assault + 1 WLT

 

 

....also....how does much does it cost to give a BA Captain an inferno pistol? Show me how you do it in the Codex + Index FAQ. 

 

 

*So....do we Master-Craft a single one or a pair? It says in the points section under Captain that "It is the same points cost to take a single lightning claw or a pair of lightning claws on this model." 

**

Hidden Content

[Karhedron]

*So....do we Master-Craft a single one or a pair? It says in the points section under Captain that "It is the same points cost to take a single lightning claw or a pair of lightning claws on this model."

Based on the corresponding relic for Wolves, it looks like Master Crafting affects both. I wonder if we will get the +1S as well as the +1D?

 

[The Unseen]

Probably not

Frost weapons always had +1 Str over regular power weapons.