Fate of the Thunder Warriors?

[Brother-Captain Gilead]

Well, I think officially (in the sense that that was what the Emperor decreed happened) all of the remaining Thunder warriors died in the final confrontation of the Unification wars on Terra. There have been some hints that some of them might have survived it (also some hints that it was a planned extinction event by the Emperor, so if some survived they needed to also have managed to avoid the Emperor from finishing what He started).

 

I like the idea that some Thunder warriors are still around, but the odds really are against them:

• They would have needed to survive all through the Unification wars since they were what the Emperor started them with but transitioned into Astartes pretty early on so even the youngest Thunder warrior had been around for quite some time
• They would have needed to survive the final battle
• They would have needed to survive capture and killing by the Emperor and at least the Custodes (I assume that all Custodes would recognize and attempt to capture / kill a Thunder warrior upon meeting one, that is probably not true for most Astartes and other Imperial military forces)
• Finally there are hints that their biology was inherently unstable since they were always planned to be replaced by more stable supersoldiers, so for them to have a massively longer lifespan than a normal human, they would need quite a lot of treatment that probably would need to be unique to their altered physiology, so they can't just steal juvenat treatments from baseline human nobles

[Skywrath]

 

Well, I think officially (in the sense that that was what the Emperor decreed happened) all of the remaining Thunder warriors died in the final confrontation of the Unification wars on Terra. There have been some hints that some of them might have survived it (also some hints that it was a planned extinction event by the Emperor, so if some survived they needed to also have managed to avoid the Emperor from finishing what He started).

 

I like the idea that some Thunder warriors are still around, but the odds really are against them:

• They would have needed to survive all through the Unification wars since they were what the Emperor started them with but transitioned into Astartes pretty early on so even the youngest Thunder warrior had been around for quite some time
• They would have needed to survive the final battle
• They would have needed to survive capture and killing by the Emperor and at least the Custodes (I assume that all Custodes would recognize and attempt to capture / kill a Thunder warrior upon meeting one, that is probably not true for most Astartes and other Imperial military forces)
• Finally there are hints that their biology was inherently unstable since they were always planned to be replaced by more stable supersoldiers, so for them to have a massively longer lifespan than a normal human, they would need quite a lot of treatment that probably would need to be unique to their altered physiology, so they can't just steal juvenat treatments from baseline human noble

 

I do recall there was an instance where the leader of the Thunder Warriors escaped the purge, stole gene-seed, stabilised his genome and his companions. Chronologically speaking, that was done just before the Horus Heresy, and was never heard from since. Of course, we can doubt the integrity of the information (as it was quoted from the warhammer40 wiki), but it seems plausible enough. Some even speculated that some of the Thunder Warriors were folded into the prototype of the legion astartes, which would be the now Dark Angels. Of course this is all speculation, but hey, speculation is fun!

[Mr Yellow]

Thunder Warriors feature in The Outcast Dead HH book.

And there is also a short story but I don't recall the name.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Thunder Warriors feature in The Outcast Dead HH book.

And there is also a short story but I don't recall the name.

Valdor birth of imperium.

 

 

It states fairly clearly that custodes put thunder warriors down like rabid dogs. And that is was completely at the direction of either the emperor or Valdor though it leaves it ambiguous which.

[Skerr]

Maybe a Blackstone Fortress release, (does time act trippy there?)or maybe in Trazyn's collection.

 

I read online recently, about the one who raised the banner on Mt. Arat got away and managed to get some space marine glands to extend his life. Not sure how conical it was but he would be ddead in current 40k, unles time shenanigans.

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

 

Well, I think officially (in the sense that that was what the Emperor decreed happened) all of the remaining Thunder warriors died in the final confrontation of the Unification wars on Terra. There have been some hints that some of them might have survived it (also some hints that it was a planned extinction event by the Emperor, so if some survived they needed to also have managed to avoid the Emperor from finishing what He started).

 

I like the idea that some Thunder warriors are still around, but the odds really are against them:

• They would have needed to survive all through the Unification wars since they were what the Emperor started them with but transitioned into Astartes pretty early on so even the youngest Thunder warrior had been around for quite some time
• They would have needed to survive the final battle
• They would have needed to survive capture and killing by the Emperor and at least the Custodes (I assume that all Custodes would recognize and attempt to capture / kill a Thunder warrior upon meeting one, that is probably not true for most Astartes and other Imperial military forces)
• Finally there are hints that their biology was inherently unstable since they were always planned to be replaced by more stable supersoldiers, so for them to have a massively longer lifespan than a normal human, they would need quite a lot of treatment that probably would need to be unique to their altered physiology, so they can't just steal juvenat treatments from baseline human noble

 

I do recall there was an instance where the leader of the Thunder Warriors escaped the purge, stole gene-seed, stabilised his genome and his companions. Chronologically speaking, that was done just before the Horus Heresy, and was never heard from since. Of course, we can doubt the integrity of the information (as it was quoted from the warhammer40 wiki), but it seems plausible enough. Some even speculated that some of the Thunder Warriors were folded into the prototype of the legion astartes, which would be the now Dark Angels. Of course this is all speculation, but hey, speculation is fun!

 

 

Nope, unfortunately the biology of the Thunder Warriors was way too unstable for such a merger. In the novella Valdor:

It goes into the Thunder Warriors in detail, as the story is set in the aftermath of their destruction, which was done at the hands of the Custodes. They were created to be destroyed, a sloppy and rushed creation done in sub-standard laboratories, created only with the intention of surviving long enough to get the Emperor the resources to create a replacement product, which was initially the Primarch Project, but then the Astartes project.

A few survived the purge by the Custodes, and were subsequently put down by the First Legion.

 

Also, there's some debate as to whether the Alpha Legion were actually the prototype Legion, created before the Dark Angels.

[RandomMarine]

This is the guy your most likely see survive the seige and he's fixed the degradation issue.

 

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Arik_Taranis

 

Personally id do a novellea with him defending the petitioners city from fulgrim and the 3rd, one of dorns interrogators are in the city and records the final clash between arik and fulgrim and reports it to dorn who is dumbfounded how could it be him after all this time? How was he not dead? How had he beaten fulgrim so handily? But his final words had give him hope, Arik looking at the camera and he says "One down"

[Dulahan]

 

 

Well, I think officially (in the sense that that was what the Emperor decreed happened) all of the remaining Thunder warriors died in the final confrontation of the Unification wars on Terra. There have been some hints that some of them might have survived it (also some hints that it was a planned extinction event by the Emperor, so if some survived they needed to also have managed to avoid the Emperor from finishing what He started).

 

I like the idea that some Thunder warriors are still around, but the odds really are against them:

• They would have needed to survive all through the Unification wars since they were what the Emperor started them with but transitioned into Astartes pretty early on so even the youngest Thunder warrior had been around for quite some time
• They would have needed to survive the final battle
• They would have needed to survive capture and killing by the Emperor and at least the Custodes (I assume that all Custodes would recognize and attempt to capture / kill a Thunder warrior upon meeting one, that is probably not true for most Astartes and other Imperial military forces)
• Finally there are hints that their biology was inherently unstable since they were always planned to be replaced by more stable supersoldiers, so for them to have a massively longer lifespan than a normal human, they would need quite a lot of treatment that probably would need to be unique to their altered physiology, so they can't just steal juvenat treatments from baseline human noble

 

I do recall there was an instance where the leader of the Thunder Warriors escaped the purge, stole gene-seed, stabilised his genome and his companions. Chronologically speaking, that was done just before the Horus Heresy, and was never heard from since. Of course, we can doubt the integrity of the information (as it was quoted from the warhammer40 wiki), but it seems plausible enough. Some even speculated that some of the Thunder Warriors were folded into the prototype of the legion astartes, which would be the now Dark Angels. Of course this is all speculation, but hey, speculation is fun!

 

My personal theory is Thunder Warriors may well be what became Primaris Marines.  The combination of those two methods.  That guy meeting up with Cawl at some point during the Siege and becoming the basis for the future Primaris project would brings things around quite nicely, at least IMHO.

 

They are definitely something that was a bit more brutal and powerful than an Astartes, but not quite on par with a Custodes, even as one of the best of them still thought he MIGHT have a chance against Valdor himself, and knew him.

 

So yeah, that's why I think a Primaris style stat line makes a lot of sense.  Possibly with either Str or T 5.  But not both.  I really hope the Heresy books eventually give us some stats though!  Or alternately we get a Reunification Wars game.

[Doghouse]

Originally they were revealed as part of the end of Rogue Trader era armours through the eras article in white dwarf. It was mentioned that the thunder armour was rare in present day but still worn by honour guards having originally been worn by the original Astartes.

 

It wasn't till much much much later that Black Library reworked the concept into what they are today with I think it was Graham McNeil's novel The Outcast Dead.

 

The history of 40k is fragmented and written by the Imperium of Man, if you really wanted to you could probably justify a small band of these guys still knocking about. I use one for my Necromunda gang and many people dabble in Unification Wars settings for their armies.

[Dulahan]

Oh, Thunder Warriors being separate from Astartes very much predated that book. I'm pretty sure at least as far back as the 3e days. If not 2e. We just didn't know much about them other than they were pre astartes.

[Fajita Fan]

I also could have sworn in some book it said they had programmed lifespans so they couldn't get too old. Did Horus or Erebus make mention of that in a HH book about how the Emperor was using the Astartes too?

[Dulahan]

Yeah, that came up a few different times.

[Noserenda]

Theyve been iterating on Thunder warriors for years, i think the Valdor book shows thats still ongoing as we finally get their high gothic name :D 

Regards primaris, i mean im sure some of the Thunder warriors stuff got recycled into them if not directly then via improvements or modifications on that work. Thats kinda the hallmark of Cawls modifications, taking earlier stuff and working out some kinks.

[Skywrath]

 

 

 

Well, I think officially (in the sense that that was what the Emperor decreed happened) all of the remaining Thunder warriors died in the final confrontation of the Unification wars on Terra. There have been some hints that some of them might have survived it (also some hints that it was a planned extinction event by the Emperor, so if some survived they needed to also have managed to avoid the Emperor from finishing what He started).

 

I like the idea that some Thunder warriors are still around, but the odds really are against them:

• They would have needed to survive all through the Unification wars since they were what the Emperor started them with but transitioned into Astartes pretty early on so even the youngest Thunder warrior had been around for quite some time
• They would have needed to survive the final battle
• They would have needed to survive capture and killing by the Emperor and at least the Custodes (I assume that all Custodes would recognize and attempt to capture / kill a Thunder warrior upon meeting one, that is probably not true for most Astartes and other Imperial military forces)
• Finally there are hints that their biology was inherently unstable since they were always planned to be replaced by more stable supersoldiers, so for them to have a massively longer lifespan than a normal human, they would need quite a lot of treatment that probably would need to be unique to their altered physiology, so they can't just steal juvenat treatments from baseline human noble

 

I do recall there was an instance where the leader of the Thunder Warriors escaped the purge, stole gene-seed, stabilised his genome and his companions. Chronologically speaking, that was done just before the Horus Heresy, and was never heard from since. Of course, we can doubt the integrity of the information (as it was quoted from the warhammer40 wiki), but it seems plausible enough. Some even speculated that some of the Thunder Warriors were folded into the prototype of the legion astartes, which would be the now Dark Angels. Of course this is all speculation, but hey, speculation is fun!

 

My personal theory is Thunder Warriors may well be what became Primaris Marines.  The combination of those two methods.  That guy meeting up with Cawl at some point during the Siege and becoming the basis for the future Primaris project would brings things around quite nicely, at least IMHO.

 

They are definitely something that was a bit more brutal and powerful than an Astartes, but not quite on par with a Custodes, even as one of the best of them still thought he MIGHT have a chance against Valdor himself, and knew him.

 

So yeah, that's why I think a Primaris style stat line makes a lot of sense.  Possibly with either Str or T 5.  But not both.  I really hope the Heresy books eventually give us some stats though!  Or alternately we get a Reunification Wars game.

 

 

I can definitely get behind that theory! In fact it would make perfect sense.

[Scribe]

They died. Unrefined, and never intended to leave the planet after unity.

 

Valdor (the book) makes this very clear.

 

They were far too unstable, to ever go through the Primaris process, which starts at the same point as normal marines.

[MegaVolt87]

Yeah Cawl wouldn't be wasting time with thunder warrior stuff when he had info about the proven SM and primarch genetics, cliff notes on cut potential features for SM etc. 

[Paradigm]

In one of the Endryd Haar blackshield audio books, it is hinted that he might have been a Thunder Warrior who was selected to see if you could turn thunder warriors into astartes or even some other kind of hybrid. I remember getting the impression it was a failure overall, but haar alone somehow survived.

 

Haar is apparently the largest, or one of the largest, astartes to ever live. Dwarfing death guard marines and easily all his world eater brethren.

 

That said it didn’t strike me as actual for-sure history, but more in-universe speculation. It was interesting though as there were a ton of hints, and he gets asked explicitly if he “dreams of thunder”.

 

I think Haar’s rules from HH book six are the closest we’ll ever get.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Paradigm

[Sandlemad]

We do know that some thunder warriors did manage to get off Terra. Crusade mentions how "on at least three occasions, fleets of the First Legion have altered course in order to engage and destroy Thunder Warrior survivors" framing it all as the Dark Angels' almost obsessive need to chase down "those few renegade Thunder Warriors that survived and fled Terra". Interestingly it sources these to "several anecdotes from the latter years of the Great Crusade", suggesting that some managed to last off-world for over a century.

 

So those are the handful that survived the custodes' purge and who didn't join in with Ushotan's attempted coup, which was then put down by the DA. We've known about them for a while, Betrayal mentions some sparking a rebellion on the asteriod prison of Cerberus.

 

Surviving 10k years though, that seems considerably less likely unless they were in stasis or yeah, held by Trazyn or someone. Kind of reluctant about the primaris idea as well, they were pretty crude. Stuff a warrior full of organs and fast-tracked gene-therapy, layer on some coarse psychic protection, never mind the psychological trauma or spiralling cancers that came with the process, that's your thunder warrior. There's a reason the Emperor moved on from them, doubt there's much more to be learned for the primaris.

[Paradigm]

It was my understanding that the “first” legion, not the “first legion” were the ones to take down Primarch Ushotan’s army? As in the pre-gene-stamped marines. Or original neutral gene-line before the geneseed distributed into the legion genelines we see now. I thought that was in Sons of the Selenar? Read a bunch of books lately to catch up, so I might be off on which.

 

It’s interesting to note that Sons, without spoiling anything, also tells us how Cawl got to be a better gene-wright than the emperor.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Paradigm

[Sandlemad]

It was my understanding that the “first” legion, not the “first legion” were the ones to take down Primarch Ushotan’s army? As in the pre-gene-stamped marines. Or original neutral gene-line before the geneseed distributed into the legion genelines we see now. I thought that was in Sons of the Selenar? Read a bunch of books lately to catch up, so I might be off on which.

 

It’s interesting to note that Sons, without spoiling anything, also tells us how Cawl got to be a better gene-wright than the emperor.

 

I was under the impression that the first legion which put down Kandawire and Ushotan's attempted coup were indeed the first legion, as in the proto-Dark Angels. Valdor describes them as having the winged sword on their armour.

 

Crusade does mention those pre-legion space marines ("functional prototypes" that were "unrefined and ill-favoured but potent nonetheless") and mentions one by name, an Abraxus Ghent. These are presumably the same handful of experiments as Leetu in Saturnine and the monsters in Sons of the Selenar. I don't think they ever saw large scale military action, or at least that doesn't seem to be suggested.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

It was my understanding that the “first” legion, not the “first legion” were the ones to take down Primarch Ushotan’s army? As in the pre-gene-stamped marines. Or original neutral gene-line before the geneseed distributed into the legion genelines we see now. I thought that was in Sons of the Selenar? Read a bunch of books lately to catch up, so I might be off on which.

 

It’s interesting to note that Sons, without spoiling anything, also tells us how Cawl got to be a better gene-wright than the emperor.

 

What is Sons? And I would challenge that sentiment regarding cawl being better.

 

 

Better than Dr. Astartes? Sure. Emperor?

 

 

Glances at pile of golden gods that are Custodes.

 

...nah fam.

[Karhedron]

The Space Marines were not the pinnacle of the Emperor's abilities. They were a mass produced tool designed to conquer the Galaxy. They were a whole lot more refined and stable than the Thunder Warriors but the Emperor didn't make them "perfect". They were simply good enough for their intended purpose.

 

Cawl went in and cleaned out 10,000 years' worth of accumulated bugs and applied a couple of update patches.

[AfroCampbell]

So I have been reading Valdor: Birth of the Imperium, and noting also HH Book 1: Betrayal and the Outcast Dead of the presence of Legio Cataegis well after the Battle of Ararat.

In particular at the end of the Outcast Dead we see survival of these warriors and progression of working on possible modulation of their genetic breakdown.

 

I wondered how likely these guys are to have survived the Horus Heresy?

How likely they are to survive MUCH longer? 

Would they have escaped to the Eye of Terror? 

 

Just thought spit-balling.

 

Would love to hear your thoughts!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think they are prolly dead seeing their limited resources but if they are still kicking that is cool.

[AfroCampbell]

What about survival in the Eye of Terror?

 

Arik Taranis has clearly had some success in stabilising their native decay in a small group several hundred years after the Battle at Ararat. 

Could definitely see some traitorous ideas flourishing lol

I am sure Arik would get on well with Abaddon, sit down for a beer talk about where the Emperor went wrong.

 

A short story during the Siege of Terra series in the Petitioner's City would be wildly cool. Thunder Warriors butchering Emperor's Children....