The best modern GW brush

[MegaVolt87]

Had a convo on discord the other day about painting, GW brushes etc so thought I would answer a common question- Is there a good GW brush?

 

So, the last good GW brush I used were those red ones from the 90's- mid 2000's, the majority of the new ones are terrible. Naturally being a dumb kid at the time none survived and the one that did somehow got lost when I moved house years ago. The new ones are too small combined with very soft bristles that just don't keep a point or even shape. There is ONE GW brush in the modern product line that is king and can be used for pretty much any more detailed technical painting required. Its the M shade brush. This brush has more bristles that maintain its shape and point, is quite wide + long so its very easy to apply thicker/ thinner highlights, broad/ thinner brush strokes for basecoating/ layering, great for controlled glazing + layering. The modern GW brushes are definitely overpriced for their quality. This M shade brush is the exception and even at AUD$15 for it from GW main I don't feel like I wasted my money on it for what it can do. 3/5 stars score IMO. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

I find the medium and small layer brushes are fine, those serve quite well for their purpose, and I've gotten lots of use out of them. They are both detail brushes though, good for picking out small details and edge highlights, etc. I've found that other brushes are definitely better, but they're definitely usable.

 

The base brushes are all awful, they are too short and paint runs right up into their ferrule and then they're toast.

 

I do like the dry brushes, they're fine, but that's hard to get wrong I think. They're the only ones I really use at this point.

 

I usually now use cheap brushes for about 80% of the paint job, and then switch to decent brushes for the last details.

Edited October 27, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Bryan Blaire]

I like the Artificer XS brush, but you can get equivalents or better for the same price or cheaper in a non-GW branded brush.

 

For dry brushes, small, soft makeup brushes work much better IMO than any hobby branded brush - now that I've started using them, I won't go back to anything else. I even saw in a FLGS that Army Painter apparently branded some dry brushes that look suspiciously like some makeup brushes as "Masterclass Dry Brushes" or some such.

[MegaVolt87]

I like the Artificer XS brush, but you can get equivalents or better for the same price or cheaper in a non-GW branded brush.

 

For dry brushes, small, soft makeup brushes work much better IMO than any hobby branded brush - now that I've started using them, I won't go back to anything else. I even saw in a FLGS that Army Painter apparently branded some dry brushes that look suspiciously like some makeup brushes as "Masterclass Dry Brushes" or some such.

 

That was actually the first modern GW brush I tried out and was quite unhappy with. Then preceded to M glaze, M layer, S base then the M shade brush which beats them all hands down  even for their self advertised tasks. I got no name el cheapo brushes for drybrushing, heavy washes, thicker basecoating, baseing. M shade brush definitely punches up and out of its specialist function better than the other "specialists" in the GW brushes range. 

[Firedrake Cordova]

The Artificer range are apparently Winsor & Newton Series 7's with better QC and a different ferrule/handle, so it somewhat depends on your opinion of the Series 7 line on them. (they used to be sold at the RRP of the equivalent Series 7, but are a bit more expensive following the latest round of price rises)

 

Personally, I like my M Shade brush.  The Dry range are "good", and the L Shade I have is "a bit eh" (it's a bit floppy but holds lots of paint, like a squirrel brush).  I've no experience of any other brushes in the current range, although I do have one of the previous Wash brushes with the purple handle tip (terrible), and some of the 1990's black/red-handled size 0's (great).

 

The current line of GW brushes are a bit over-priced a bit (shock!), although when you factor in that I can walk into the shop and buy one against having to order an artist's brush and pay for £1.50-4.00 postage (the local art shop shut 10+ years ago), they start working out OK per brush.  I tend to use a weird mix of Raphael 8404, Jackson's 1205 (rebranded Escoda Reserva), Pro Arte Prolene & Renaissance, W&N Series 7, and Escoda Prado & Versatil brushes these days ...

 

For dry brushes, small, soft makeup brushes work much better IMO than any hobby branded brush ... I even saw in a FLGS that Army Painter apparently branded some dry brushes that look suspiciously like some makeup brushes as "Masterclass Dry Brushes" or some such.

Most makeup brushes that I've seen have been synthetic hair.  The Army Painter Masterclass Drybrush set (urgh) are goat hair, so they're likely not directly equivalent.  Of course, whether that makes a difference to the end result ...

 

 

[Magos Takatus]

I have very little patience for GW brushes these days. I am finding my brushes are lasting considerably less time than they used to. Perhaps it is because I spend more time painting than I used to. I have started using medium layer brushes for work where keeping a point isn't so important but I'm still using Windsor & Newton brushes for most of my work. I can't take synthetic brushes seriously and I tried the Kolinsky brushes from Green Stuff World a few months ago and they will go down in legend for how awful they were. They didn't even know what a point was from the moment I used them. They seem to have brought out a new range of brushes so perhaps those will be considerably better. I hope so, since using up W&N brushes on metallic paint doesn't sit right with me.

[grailkeeper]

There is an art supply shop near my GW. The brushes it sells are both higher in quality and cheaper. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by grailkeeper

[Bryan Blaire]

There is an art supply shop near my GW. The brushes it sells are both higher in quality and cheaper.

Agreed, I happen to live near a city that has quite a bit of an arts scene, so there are several shops I can pop down to and snag a few higher quality brushes.

 

MegaVolt87, you and I probably have very different paint styles (mine can be described as "racing snail"), hence the preference for different types of brushes. My Artificer XS keeps a very fine point and does very sharp edge highlighting really well (although it is very much like the W&N Series 7 brushes I have, speaking to Firedrake Cordova's points), and I use brush soap on it each session it's been used. Even GW's brushes can be coaxed to a point with some of that and some brush conditioner, but if you can get them, there's definitely better brushes out there.

 

Cordova, not spending $30 on some dry brushes to find out if the goat hair makes a difference when I got 5 make up brushes for $10 and they are better than any dry brushes I've used before (and they are just being used on terrain anyway). I'd love to hear someone's unbiased reviews though.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I have very little patience for GW brushes these days. I am finding my brushes are lasting considerably less time than they used to. Perhaps it is because I spend more time painting than I used to. I have started using medium layer brushes for work where keeping a point isn't so important but I'm still using Windsor & Newton brushes for most of my work. I can't take synthetic brushes seriously and I tried the Kolinsky brushes from Green Stuff World a few months ago and they will go down in legend for how awful they were. They didn't even know what a point was from the moment I used them. They seem to have brought out a new range of brushes so perhaps those will be considerably better. I hope so, since using up W&N brushes on metallic paint doesn't sit right with me.

Metallic paint is what you should be using synthetic brushes with most of the time. They are perfect for things that will burn through a brush, like oil washes, acrylic washes, metallics, enamels, etc.

 

Even then, I use them for quite a lot. Yes, they're not good. But I can get some super cheap brushes and get a lot of my work done with those, then move on to something good when I get down to detail. Don't need a good brush to basecoat some necron warriors for example.

 

I bought a redgrass games brush just to try it out when I ordered a wet palette, I have quite liked that brush.

Edited October 27, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Firedrake Cordova]

I can't take synthetic brushes seriously.

Ultimately, it's personal preference (whatever feels right in your hand is very important), but I know of one Golden Demon winner who exclusively uses el-cheapo ("dollar store") synthetic brushes, and gets great results (Sam Lenz).

 

not spending $30 on some dry brushes to find out if the goat hair makes a difference

I didn't realise they're that expensive in the US! (they're £13-15 over here, which is closer to the cost of a set of makeup brushes)  

 

I honestly don't know if the natural hair makes a difference in outcome or longevity, but thought I'd mention that they're slightly different than simply being rebadged and adding a "hobby tax" to the price.   Reviews seem thin on the ground - I'm only aware of Sword & Steele's.  From what I've seen, they look like a lower-cost clone of the Artis Opus Series D, although they look to be less densely-packed (when they've got paint on them, they take on a "matted" appearance, in AP's videos).

Edited October 27, 2020 by Firedrake Cordova

[Karhedron]

The only GW brushes I buy now are dry brushes as I haven't tracked down a better equivalent. For general use I purchase packs of 4 synthetic brushes from The Works at £2 a time. The work well and while they don't last forever, I have yet to find a brand of brush that does.

 

Every so often I buy I fine detail brush from Hobbycraft which I used for eyes etc.

[Firedrake Cordova]

The only GW brushes I buy now are dry brushes as I haven't tracked down a better equivalent.

I've tried a Royal & Langnickel Chique Pro Detail makeup brush (£2.50 delivered via e-bay).  Results were good, but the brush handle is a thin, unshaped, cylinder, which I found to be uncomfortable compared to a traditional brush handle.  RobPaintsModels on YouTube did a mini-review/comparison with the Artis Opus Series D's - dunno if they're worth a try. :)

[lhg033]

big fan of the medium shade brush. I'm mainly painting orks/contrast at the moment so may be biased.

 

I've never had huge issues with GW brushes and have a few red handles left but mainly blue handled ones and the odd newer black handled one. I do tend to give my GW brushes to my kids to use these days and use W&N series 7 00s and 000s for most of my detail work. I find the W&N hold the paint better and keep their point through out painting where as GW's can 'fray' a bit and need more cleaning/repointing during painting to avoid this.

 

I still use a GW drybrushes as they are convenient and I have several, then again I use 1-2 inch decorators brushes for this on terrain so it's not really a recommendation.

 

As a side note, I recently bought some Masters brush soap on amazon and it is actually magic! I tested it on some of my older GW brushes and they have 'recovered' and are pointy again.

[Firedrake Cordova]

As a side note, I recently bought some Masters brush soap on amazon and it is actually magic! I tested it on some of my older GW brushes and they have 'recovered' and are pointy again.

The Master's brush soap is indeed excellent for restoring brushes, and good for cleaning them. :) I've found that Chroma/Jo-Sonja's liquid brush cleaner is a bit better at cleaning, though (it is a bit dispiriting to take what you think is a clean brush, dip it in the cleaner, then gently run it back-and-forward on a pallet a couple of times and watch as what looks like a lake of colour comes out...).

[Magos Takatus]

 

I can't take synthetic brushes seriously.

Ultimately, it's personal preference (whatever feels right in your hand is very important), but I know of one Golden Demon winner who exclusively uses el-cheapo ("dollar store") synthetic brushes, and gets great results (Sam Lenz).

Yeah, Sam Lenz is a fantastic painter and gets great results from synthetic brushes. I have tried them before and I just find the tips fray and make the brush hard to work with. I wasn't meaning to come across as being elitist about brushes but as you say, it's all down to personal preference and I found my painting sessions were not very enjoyable when working with synthetic brushes. Perhaps I should try a few different types to be fair. If a really fine detail synthetic brush works well I could give that a go but I think I tried a W&N size 2 synthetic for an all-purpose brush and was disappointed how quickly the point curled up. :(

[Firedrake Cordova]

If a really fine detail synthetic brush works well I could give that a go but I think I tried a W&N size 2 synthetic for an all-purpose brush and was disappointed how quickly the point curled up. 

In my experience, the smaller the brush, the more likely/quicker tip-curl is to happen. It can at least be corrected by dipping the brush in hot water, straightening the tip out, and then setting it for a few days in gum arabic (the "shipping resin" that's used to protect them in transit).

Edited October 27, 2020 by Firedrake Cordova

[lhg033]

 

As a side note, I recently bought some Masters brush soap on amazon and it is actually magic! I tested it on some of my older GW brushes and they have 'recovered' and are pointy again.

The Master's brush soap is indeed excellent for restoring brushes, and good for cleaning them. I've found that Chroma/Jo-Sonja's liquid brush cleaner is a bit better at cleaning, though (it is a bit dispiriting to take what you think is a clean brush, dip it in the cleaner, then gently run it back-and-forward on a pallet a couple of times and watch as what looks like a lake of colour comes out...).

 

 

I don't thing the Masters stuff I have will be running out any time soon (from what I've read the 1oz pot will last for years) but variety is the spice of life and all that so may give this a go too.

[Kain Mor]

I do my painting with a mix of GW and non GW painting. Once I do the airbrushing for a model, whether that’s just a prime or a full basecoat and move on to the next steps I pretty much do the whole thing with 4 brushes.

I have a size 4 round acrylic brush from Michaels that you can get pretty cheap with their online coupon, and then the rest are GW, the medium shade, medium and small layer, and an XS artificer layer brush.

 

Honestly the size 4 does about 80% of my brush work because the wider body makes for much more convenient painting, doing just the finest detailing with the other brushes.

 

When I first got into the hobby I had gotten one of those starter sets from GW that came with a crappy brush, light clippers, and a handful of paints and that starter brush was so horrific it turned me off GW brushes completely for more than a year. I had ended up with a handful of Gw brushes for free at some point and gave them a shot and found that I actually quite liked them in the end.

 

They’re definitely expensive for what you get, but paired with the larger brush from michaels and the airbrush they get the job done and I’m happy with the results.

[Chaplain Raeven]

I do enjoy the S & M Layer brushes. I use those pretty much exclusively, since the alternatives in my local store are horrible. Some brush cleaner and avoiding metallics with new brushes keep them in shape for a couple of months. After their use for fine detail is over, they always serve as drybrushes, you can never have enough of those!

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

I actually recently discovered an old "red handle" era GW fine detail brush in a fishing tackle box from another era of my hobbying.  Put it through some of that fancy brush soap everyone has and it's now back in regular rotation; it's definitely higher quality than their newer brushes, although I am constantly looking for better brushes; I was looking at those greenstuff world brushes but this thread certainly has me rethinking that!

[Magos Takatus]

 I was looking at those greenstuff world brushes but this thread certainly has me rethinking that!

To be fair I did say that, they aren't even selling the ones I bought anymore. The ones I own look like this:

 

The new ones on their store are like this:

 

http://www.greenstuffworld.com/en/brushes/1286-gold-series-siberian-kolinsky-brush-size-2.html

 

I had a bad batch of the old brushes but the new ones might be usable. 

[mactire]

Still have an old Blue Fine Detail brush from GW, great brush.

[Firedrake Cordova]

I don't thing the Masters stuff I have will be running out any time soon (from what I've read the 1oz pot will last for years) but variety is the spice of life and all that so may give this a go too.

lol :D I actually use both - Jo-Sonjas liquid soap for the initial clean, and then condition/set with The Master's cake soap.  I had a habit of buying The Master's whenever it was on offer, so I have 3 75ml cakes of it ... I think that might be a life-time supply :blush:

 

I am constantly looking for better brushes

Your best bet if you've got a local art supply store is to have a look through their selection of watercolour brushes.  In terms of sable brushes (in no particular order!), Winsor & Newton Series 7, Daler-Rowney Diana, ProArte Renaissance, Raphael Series 8404, Isabey 6227z, Escoda Reserva, Jackson's Art Supplies Series 1205, DaVinci Maestro, and Rosemary & Co Series 33 are all worth a look (all of those are European manufacturers, although if you're in continental North America, I'm sure there's some local manufacturers, too).  I would add that there's no substitute for actually trying a brush, as they all are different - the length of the hairs, shape of the belly, strength of spring/stiffness of snap, as well as the size and shape of the handle all vary, and can determine whether a brush is "for you" or not.

[Guiltysparc]

I really love the medium and small layer brushes, I do 90% of my painting with them.  The last round of brush buying i did i wanted to try something new but couldnt the raphaels that everyone loves anywhere in stock, so i grab a trio of GW's artificer brushes (XS, S, and M layer).  Now i use the XS artificer for all my edge highlighting.  

[N1SB]

Great thread to compare notes, Brothers.  Thanks for starting this, Brother Megavolt.

 

I, too, actually really like GW's Medium Shade brush.  Before I tried it, I avoided GW's painting supplies altogether except for some of their inks/washes (but now I'm a huge user of Contrast paints).  When I suddenly needed a replacement brush in a hurry, I was desperate enough to buy a GW brush and, to his credit, the Warhammer Store manager steered me towards the Medium Shade brush over their normal paint ones, and I assumed I just personally grew accustomed to it, rather than it being any good.  From hearing you guys, maybe that specific brush has some merit!

 

The Artificer range are apparently Winsor & Newton Series 7's with better QC and a different ferrule/handle, so it somewhat depends on your opinion of the Series 7 line on them. (they used to be sold at the RRP of the equivalent Series 7, but are a bit more expensive following the latest round of price rises)

 

Yeah, that's what I heard, too!  I guess it's like an OEM thing going on.

 

Now, for drybrushes...and I suspect this is really be a personal preference thing...I use a Japanese hobby brush, Tamiya's Number 5.  They're very cheap with fine bristles, so I found them to be the best for highlighting edges without those telltale lines from drybrushing, and they're quite disposable.  It's probably too soft for most, though.