UM 2k list - advice/thoughts/feedback

[psyduck]

It's time for another list for the sons of the 13th!

 

Secondaries: Attrition, Raise the Banners High/Oaths of Moment, flexible 3rd

 

**Chapter Selection**: Ultramarines

+ Stratagems +

• Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

 

+ HQ +

• Chief Librarian Tigurius : 1) Veil of Time, 3) Null Zone (Aura), 6) Psychic Fortress (Aura)
• Lieutenant in Phobos Armour: Seal of Oath
• Primaris Techmarine : Adept of the Codex, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

 

+ Troops +

• Heavy Intercessor Squad [7 PL, 150pts]: Executor bolt rifle, Executor heavy bolter: 4x + Sgt
• Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 120pts]: 4x + Sgt
• Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 115pts]: Astartes Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle, Power Fist
• Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 115pts]: Astartes Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle, Power Fist

 

+ Elites +

• Aggressor Squad [12 PL, 225pts]: Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher : 4x + Sgt
• Primaris Apothecary [5 PL, 105pts]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Selfless Healer, The Vox Espiritum, Warlord
• Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 175pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Heavy flamer, Macro Plasma Incinerator
• Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 175pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Heavy flamer, Macro Plasma Incinerator
• Victrix Honour Guard [3 PL, 70pts]: Victrix Honour Guard, Victrix Honour Guard

 

+ Heavy Support +

• Eradicator Squad [12 PL, 300pts]: Heavy melta rifle, 2x Multi-melta: 5x + Sgt
• Eradicator Squad [6 PL, 150pts]: Heavy melta rifle, 1x Multi-melta: 2x + Sgt

++ Total: [94 PL, 10CP, 1,995pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

 

This should be simple enough in theory to pilot, I think. Nothing groundbreaking, an advancing gunline castle.

Infiltrators grab a midfield obj, then speedbump as much as possible while waiting for reinforcements.

Tigurius/apothecary/techmarine move mostly as a castle, with the aggressor and redemptors being the walls and the intercessors following up. The redemptors will be using Wisdom of Ancients to be the brother captain they always wanted to be. The heavy intercessors sit on backfield and shoot stuff.

 

Eradicators will largely be outflanking and shooting big stuff, or failing that, heavy infantry. The seal of oath lieutenant flexibly drops in, usually near them to give them the rerolls they need.

 

A few more thoughts in next post.

 

[psyduck]

So, my thoughts about this:

• Mostly worried that it's too slow to grab and push people off objectives easily enough. Thus far I've been running double incursors/infiltrators to deny midfield deploys early, and I'm not sure if one will be enough in terms of tanking until the army gets in. The other thing is move after deploy units becoming more common, negating infiltrator advantage somewhat. I'm contemplating dropping the infiltrators, then making room for some fast attack to grab stuff instead.
• Is 6 + 3 Eradicators too much? My gut says no, I've been traumatised too much by tank spam lists.
• Contemplating taking Exemplar of the Chapter and Rites of War on the Apothecary to spread a bit more obsec, but someone's told me it doesn't grant double obsec to units that already have it.
• Victrix Guard or Company Vets with shields? Think victrix are better on defense, but the company vets with a claw/shield will be better at cutting through stuff.

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

 

It's time for another list for the sons of the 13th!

 

Secondaries: Attrition, Raise the Banners High/Oaths of Moment, flexible 3rd

 

**Chapter Selection**: Ultramarines

+ Stratagems +

• Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

 

+ HQ +

• Chief Librarian Tigurius : 1) Veil of Time, 3) Null Zone (Aura), 6) Psychic Fortress (Aura)
• Lieutenant in Phobos Armour: Seal of Oath
• Primaris Techmarine : Adept of the Codex, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

 

+ Troops +

• Heavy Intercessor Squad [7 PL, 150pts]: Executor bolt rifle, Executor heavy bolter: 4x + Sgt
• Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 120pts]: 4x + Sgt
• Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 115pts]: Astartes Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle, Power Fist
• Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 115pts]: Astartes Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle, Power Fist

 

+ Elites +

• Aggressor Squad [12 PL, 225pts]: Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher : 4x + Sgt
• Primaris Apothecary [5 PL, 105pts]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Selfless Healer, The Vox Espiritum, Warlord
• Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 175pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Heavy flamer, Macro Plasma Incinerator
• Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 175pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Heavy flamer, Macro Plasma Incinerator
• Victrix Honour Guard [3 PL, 70pts]: Victrix Honour Guard, Victrix Honour Guard

 

+ Heavy Support +

• Eradicator Squad [12 PL, 300pts]: Heavy melta rifle, 2x Multi-melta: 5x + Sgt
• Eradicator Squad [6 PL, 150pts]: Heavy melta rifle, 1x Multi-melta: 2x + Sgt

++ Total: [94 PL, 10CP, 1,995pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

 

This should be simple enough in theory to pilot, I think. Nothing groundbreaking, an advancing gunline castle.

Infiltrators grab a midfield obj, then speedbump as much as possible while waiting for reinforcements.

Tigurius/apothecary/techmarine move mostly as a castle, with the aggressor and redemptors being the walls and the intercessors following up. The redemptors will be using Wisdom of Ancients to be the brother captain they always wanted to be. The heavy intercessors sit on backfield and shoot stuff.

 

Eradicators will largely be outflanking and shooting big stuff, or failing that, heavy infantry. The seal of oath lieutenant flexibly drops in, usually near them to give them the rerolls they need.

 

A few more thoughts in next post.

 

 

So, first thing to get out of the way is you've charged yourself too many points for Eradicators! The larger squad is 280, the three man is 140 (I think battlescribe was incorrect when you created this list). With the 30 points you've saved on Eradicators it could be worth upgrading the Techmarine to a Master of the Forge for the Flat 3 heal (and because I can't see a better way to spend it in the list!). Helps keep the Redemptors going for longer.

 

The list looks solid in general though, the Redemptors are great now (and between them, the Eradicators and the power fists on the Aggressors I think you're covered for anti-tank). I wouldn't remove the Infiltrators; sure there are more pre-game moves now, but some of them still stipulate you can't end within X of an enemy, so you can still deny space. I always take at least one forward deploy unit just because it's so flexible against other forward deploy armies, and the added security of Rapid Redeployment. Plus the AoE deepstrike denial can still be very handy vs Deathwing or Custodes.

 

Unfortunately you can't use Exemplar of the Chapter to take Rites of war, as it must be a chapter specific trait. So you'd need to make the Techmarine your warlord, give him Rites of War and then Exemplar of the Chapter: Adept of the Codex. Then your apothecary can be Hero of the Chapter: Selfless Healer. The CP cost is the same, it's just the way you'd have to do it for a legal loadout. All that said, I absolutely think it is worth it. Sure, you don't get double obsec but with everything in your army being Core or Character it just greatly expands your obsec options for 1 cp. 

 

Personally I'd stick with Victrix Guard. The 3++ goes a long way in my experience. 

 

Oh and one last small thing, and maybe it's a model issue, but I'd definitely take Icarus Rocket Pods on the Dreadnoughts over Auxillary Grenade Launchers on the Intercessors. It's the same points but the Rocket Pod is a better weapon and doesn't stop the marine firing a boltgun - the change so there's no penalty to hit non FLY targets has really helped the pod.

[psyduck]

 

So, first thing to get out of the way is you've charged yourself too many points for Eradicators! The larger squad is 280, the three man is 140 (I think battlescribe was incorrect when you created this list). With the 30 points you've saved on Eradicators it could be worth upgrading the Techmarine to a Master of the Forge for the Flat 3 heal (and because I can't see a better way to spend it in the list!). Helps keep the Redemptors going for longer.

 

The list looks solid in general though, the Redemptors are great now (and between them, the Eradicators and the power fists on the Aggressors I think you're covered for anti-tank). I wouldn't remove the Infiltrators; sure there are more pre-game moves now, but some of them still stipulate you can't end within X of an enemy, so you can still deny space. I always take at least one forward deploy unit just because it's so flexible against other forward deploy armies, and the added security of Rapid Redeployment. Plus the AoE deepstrike denial can still be very handy vs Deathwing or Custodes.

 

Unfortunately you can't use Exemplar of the Chapter to take Rites of war, as it must be a chapter specific trait. So you'd need to make the Techmarine your warlord, give him Rites of War and then Exemplar of the Chapter: Adept of the Codex. Then your apothecary can be Hero of the Chapter: Selfless Healer. The CP cost is the same, it's just the way you'd have to do it for a legal loadout. All that said, I absolutely think it is worth it. Sure, you don't get double obsec but with everything in your army being Core or Character it just greatly expands your obsec options for 1 cp. 

 

Personally I'd stick with Victrix Guard. The 3++ goes a long way in my experience. 

 

Oh and one last small thing, and maybe it's a model issue, but I'd definitely take Icarus Rocket Pods on the Dreadnoughts over Auxillary Grenade Launchers on the Intercessors. It's the same points but the Rocket Pod is a better weapon and doesn't stop the marine firing a boltgun - the change so there's no penalty to hit non FLY targets has really helped the pod.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your input! 

 

1. I think the reason the Eradicators cost 300pts is because the heavy melta rifle is an extra 5pts/model on top of the standard. I think it's worth it, though for UM with a base damage of D6+2, and D6+4 at melta range. 
2. Very good point on the Exemplar; I think the way I'll do it is probably take Adept of Codex on the Apoc then Rites of War on the Techmarine, slightly different but mostly because I want that apothecary staying alive as much as possible. 
3. With the Victrix guard, I thought they'd been FAQ'ed to be 2+ / 4++ now. I feel they're still a great bargain for 3w bodies to prevent sniping though!
4. Absolutely agree on the Icarus Pods, they seem great. That said, I think aux grenade launchers now don't stop the marine firing his bolt rifle, or so it seems.

Edited November 2, 2020 by psyduck

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

 

 

So, first thing to get out of the way is you've charged yourself too many points for Eradicators! The larger squad is 280, the three man is 140 (I think battlescribe was incorrect when you created this list). With the 30 points you've saved on Eradicators it could be worth upgrading the Techmarine to a Master of the Forge for the Flat 3 heal (and because I can't see a better way to spend it in the list!). Helps keep the Redemptors going for longer.

 

The list looks solid in general though, the Redemptors are great now (and between them, the Eradicators and the power fists on the Aggressors I think you're covered for anti-tank). I wouldn't remove the Infiltrators; sure there are more pre-game moves now, but some of them still stipulate you can't end within X of an enemy, so you can still deny space. I always take at least one forward deploy unit just because it's so flexible against other forward deploy armies, and the added security of Rapid Redeployment. Plus the AoE deepstrike denial can still be very handy vs Deathwing or Custodes.

 

Unfortunately you can't use Exemplar of the Chapter to take Rites of war, as it must be a chapter specific trait. So you'd need to make the Techmarine your warlord, give him Rites of War and then Exemplar of the Chapter: Adept of the Codex. Then your apothecary can be Hero of the Chapter: Selfless Healer. The CP cost is the same, it's just the way you'd have to do it for a legal loadout. All that said, I absolutely think it is worth it. Sure, you don't get double obsec but with everything in your army being Core or Character it just greatly expands your obsec options for 1 cp. 

 

Personally I'd stick with Victrix Guard. The 3++ goes a long way in my experience. 

 

Oh and one last small thing, and maybe it's a model issue, but I'd definitely take Icarus Rocket Pods on the Dreadnoughts over Auxillary Grenade Launchers on the Intercessors. It's the same points but the Rocket Pod is a better weapon and doesn't stop the marine firing a boltgun - the change so there's no penalty to hit non FLY targets has really helped the pod.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your input! 

 

1. I think the reason the Eradicators cost 300pts is because the heavy melta rifle is an extra 5pts/model on top of the standard. I think it's worth it, though for UM with a base damage of D6+2, and D6+4 at melta range. 
2. Very good point on the Exemplar; I think the way I'll do it is probably take Adept of Codex on the Apoc then Rites of War on the Techmarine, slightly different but mostly because I want that apothecary staying alive as much as possible. 
3. With the Victrix guard, I thought they'd been FAQ'ed to be 2+ / 4++ now. I feel they're still a great bargain for 3w bodies to prevent sniping though!
4. Absolutely agree on the Icarus Pods, they seem great. That said, I think aux grenade launchers now don't stop the marine firing his bolt rifle, or so it seems.

 

No problem, your list is really not massively different to mine so we've clearly had some similar thoughts!

 

1) For Eradicators the Basic profile is 40, it's 5 for the Heavy and 10 for the MM. So 40x6 is 240 - then you pay for 4 Heavy Melta Rifles taking you to 260, then 20 for two multi-meltas. So should be 280 right, for the 6 man? The codex definitely lists the upgrade as 5 points and 10 points! As you say I would absolutely always take Heavy Melta rifles over regular ones, as Ultramarines, the minimum 3 damage is really useful vs Bladeguard and Terminators (as well as just being that much more reliable against tanks).

 

2) Hah - yeah, that makes a lot more sense! Rites on the Techmarine, adept on the Apo.

 

3) Not at the moment which is interesting. Every Storm Shield changed to be a +1 to armour and 4++, but the Ultima Storm Shield is actually an ability on the Honour Guard datasheet, and not a piece of wargear. So rather than being 1+/4++ Victrix Honour Guard are still 2+/3++. Which makes them quite unique! I don't know if that will change in future, but it survived the current FAQ and is also listed that way on the GW app. Which normally I may be sceptical about, but in the supplement it's an ability and not wargear.

 

4) Good point about the AGL; it does look like it doesn't stop the marine firing the bolt rifle. The Icarus does still seem like the better 5 point spend, but good spot!

[psyduck]

 

No problem, your list is really not massively different to mine so we've clearly had some similar thoughts!

 

1) For Eradicators the Basic profile is 40, it's 5 for the Heavy and 10 for the MM. So 40x6 is 240 - then you pay for 4 Heavy Melta Rifles taking you to 260, then 20 for two multi-meltas. So should be 280 right, for the 6 man? The codex definitely lists the upgrade as 5 points and 10 points! As you say I would absolutely always take Heavy Melta rifles over regular ones, as Ultramarines, the minimum 3 damage is really useful vs Bladeguard and Terminators (as well as just being that much more reliable against tanks).

 

2) Hah - yeah, that makes a lot more sense! Rites on the Techmarine, adept on the Apo.

 

3) Not at the moment which is interesting. Every Storm Shield changed to be a +1 to armour and 4++, but the Ultima Storm Shield is actually an ability on the Honour Guard datasheet, and not a piece of wargear. So rather than being 1+/4++ Victrix Honour Guard are still 2+/3++. Which makes them quite unique! I don't know if that will change in future, but it survived the current FAQ and is also listed that way on the GW app. Which normally I may be sceptical about, but in the supplement it's an ability and not wargear.

 

4) Good point about the AGL; it does look like it doesn't stop the marine firing the bolt rifle. The Icarus does still seem like the better 5 point spend, but good spot!

 

 

 

1. Oh, you're right! For some reason battlescribe thinks the multimeltas are worth 20pts each rather than 10. I'll probably use that extra for something..
2. Interesting that victrix still work that way.. shame you can't take larger units!
3. Absolutely the Icarus is the better 5pts, I ended up adding those and an onslaught gatling with the extra points saved from the eradicators.
4. What's your list look like, out of curiosity?

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

Yeah the Battlescribe thing was a bit strange! I *think* they updated yesterday though with some small amendments. 

It is a shame about the smaller Victrix Squad, although the 2 man can (situationally) be really useful for certain secondaries.

My list is:
 

Marneus Calgar 210
- Warlord: Adept of the Codex.
 

Chief Librarian Tigurius 135
- Nullzone, Psychic Fortess and Might of Heroes
 

Primaris Techmarine 80
-1 Hero of the Chapter: Rites of War. Relic: Seal of Oath

 

5 Aggressors with Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets and Fragstorm Grenade Launchers 225

Redemptor Dreadnought with Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Icarus Rocket Pod and Storm Bolters 185

Redemptor Dreadnought with Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Icarus Rocket Pod and Storm Bolters 185

Primaris Chief Apothecary 105 -2 Hero of the Chapter: Selfless Healer. Additional Relic: The Vox Espiritum

2 Victrix Guard 70

 

10 Intercessors with Bolt Rifles; Sergeant has a Chainsword 200

5 Incursors 105

5 Incursors 105

 

3 Eradicators; 2 with Heavy Melta Rifles, 1 with a Multi-melta 140

5 Devastators; 4 Grav-cannons, Sergeant has a Boltgun 135 Armorium Cherub

3 Eradicators with Melta Rifles 120

 

2000



So, as you can see, not a million miles from your list! In my heart of hearts I know that I could probably replace Calgar, and then use the additional points for things like upgrading the weapons on the 2nd squad of eradicators, and probably a master of the forge/Infiltrators over incursors. 

But I spent so long painting Calgar! And the additional CP *is* nice. He's also decently fighty and surprisingly hard to kill. He just needs a bit of a points reduction (especially if you compare him to someone like Azrael).

[psyduck]

Yeah, it's a shame Calgar is so expensive. I think his tankiness is great, it's just the output that I'm not a fan of at the moment. I've got one that I haven't painted up, but might be a good project to take up now..

 

How are you finding the devastators on foot? Are you sitting them on home obj and shooting stuff?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

He gets 8 attacks on the charge with shock assault and might of heroes I think that’s pretty good tbh. D3 damage though...

[psyduck]

Exactly, D3 damage. For comparison, the indomitus captain has only 1 less attack at half the cost, D2 and still AP-3, albeit S5.

 

(less tanky and doesn't give CM rerolls, but half the cost!)

 

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

It's a tricky one, because 8 S9 attacks is really solid, but you can be undone by bad dice. Similarly sometimes he hits like a train; hopefully they'll just FAQ him to be flat 2 at some point.  His tankiness is amazing though, all sorts of characters kinda bounce off of him. He is, in relative terms, more dangerous than a captain because of his ability to buff himself whereas the captain can't re-roll ones, and situationally S8 is very handy. But he's expensive. I could go on for days really, I don' think it's right or wrong to include him, and one can probably make arguments for both!

I do *really* like the CP advantage though, basically gives you a "free" Rapid Redeployment which is my favourite tool in our entire supplement. 

As for the Grav-devs, they're essentially budget plasma inceptors. Not as flexible, or resilient, but half the points. Situationally they can start on the table or be strat reserved for a cp, their output is really good when near the Seal of Oath though, so it's only against certain things I'd start off the table.