Trajectory of the Black Books

[Brofist]

Still have hopes for an Imperial Army list, or at least a revisit of Solar Aux + Militia.

[Marshal Rohr]

After Today’s reveal for TWWH3 its safe to assume the Old World is absorbing a lot of time from the SG studio which is why we are seeing very little Heresy Edited February 3, 2021 by Marshal Rohr

[Hfran Morkai]

Let's also not forget as far as we're aware they're currently running Heresy with a single writer.

 

I'd love to see them continue with a few more campaigns. The "Wolf Cull" particularly interests me as apart from Prospero the 6th don't really do much (and if they do rule/a model for Russ with his hated spear I'd love it), I THINK they get trolled by the AL at some point during the Heresy but going off bits I've read (last Heresy novel I read was Prospero Burns, really need to sort that) and they're the Legion I'm fondest of.

[Arkangilos]

Why not both, other than limited writers?

 

There’s not reason you can’t have the siege done for the forces that were there and simultaneously having other campaigns done on the side (or even after that as retroactive campaigns) for the forces not there.

[Taliesin]

I hope they will share info with us soon as normally the Weekender was at this time and they seem to have decided for all other branches ( like BL and 40k) to do online previews to compensate for the absence of live events.

[b1soul]

The SW almost went extinct under the AL ambush and then pursuit at Alaxxes, before Lutheran DA came to their rescue with a star fortress.

[Astartes Consul]

In case people didn’t realise, this week marks TWO YEARS since the last FAQ, so I have little hope of much clarity from GW/FW on anything Heresy related, any time soon.

 

I see it is worthwhile to bring up again this post from the Heresy forum from November 2019 by Pendraigg, which is still, amazingly, the last concrete piece of info we have on Book 10.

 

 

Book 10

 

Book 10 is currently deep into production. Due to size restraints, the Dark Mechanicum army list that was originally planned for Book 9 is now going to be in Book 10. Alongside this will be rules for additional allies for both the loyalists and traitors - this will be along the lines of the Agents of the Emperor / Warmaster concepts from a few years ago. No further details as yet.

So, even then it was deep into production, and we know it will have the DM plus allies for Loyalists and traitors, this could for instance include the assassins mentioned upthread.

 

What we can also conclude is that this is not enough to fill a book and thus why we speculated, what would Dark Mechanicum be matched with. Cause even if they change something and decide to drop the allies for loyalist and traitors ( I hope not) then this needs to be paired with a larger conflict, story etc. Nothing except finally doing the Schism of Mars book makes sense to me.

 

Shadow Crusade could be a good book but it being book 10 seems extremely unlikely on this info from the Warhammer Open Day 2019.

FWIW, my pet theory is that Book 10 is going to be Shadow Crusade. This is based on nothing other than the trend from the last two books of Praetor and Dreadnought releases for the legions featured in those books, prior to their official announcement / previewing.

 

This year we’ve had two new Word Bearer Praetor’s shown off, and last year there was the Ultramarine’s contemptor dropped out of the blue...

 

You could make a case that, now Dark Angels have been done, the three legions involved in the Shadow Crusade are among the most in need of a revisit. Word Bearers need a complete overhaul after the Daemons of the Ruinstorm list, World Eaters need a rebalance & story wise, could do with a Night Lords style update and Ultramarines, while a solid list still, have the fewest models and no special characters or Leviathan kits.

 

This is all( of course, incredibly thin conjecture...

[SkimaskMohawk]

Oh I sure did lol, I have a celebratory post on Facebook marking this as our second FAQiversary.

[Marshal Rohr]

There are multiple factions that still need baseline releases before revisiting older Legions outside of a red book update. Dark Mechanicum, Skitarii/Scutarii/Secutarii, and Imperial Army. The next Black Book should be Mars, and they should release revised Red Books and a 2nd Edition of Age of Darkness.

[Astartes Consul]

Oh I sure did lol, I have a celebratory post on Facebook marking this as our second FAQiversary.

 

Saw some chat about it on the Crusade & Heresy page. Quite depressing that the best community engagement we've had for a while was Anuj being on the group and occasionally commenting on things (and obviously he now doesn't work for GW...)

 

There are multiple factions that still need baseline releases before revisiting older Legions outside of a red book update. Dark Mechanicum, Skitarii/Scutarii/Secutarii, and Imperial Army. The next Black Book should be Mars, and they should release revised Red Books and a 2nd Edition of Age of Darkness.

 

Not saying otherwise, just trying to work out if there is any potential plan based on recent releases! My preference would be for revised Red Books this year, given priority over any Black Book currently in development.

 

Realistically, I don't think there is ever going to be a stand alone Skitarii etc. list or further development of the Imperial Militia/Army & Cults list. The Legion lists are always going to be the priority and as GW/FW has slowly shrunk the Solar Auxillia range, can't see there being a desire to grow lists that don't have their own range of models.

[Marshal Rohr]

I mean the entire game isn’t a priority and they can’t even be bothered to support it regularly, but that doesn’t change that there are supposed to be army lists for the factions mentioned above.

[Astartes Consul]

I mean the entire game isn’t a priority and they can’t even be bothered to support it regularly, but that doesn’t change that there are supposed to be army lists for the factions mentioned above.

 

Are there? Was that originally part of the confirmed plan for Heresy? I know Dark Mech has been in the works for aeons now, but have the other two lists ever been more than 'well it has to happen eventually?' type pipe dreams?

 

That aside, you're obviously right about priority and support. 

[zedmeister]

Oh I sure did lol, I have a celebratory post on Facebook marking this as our second FAQiversary.

 

To add context, Middle Earth have just got their 2nd FAQ since Heresy got its one. Surely, they have someone, anyone, working on 30k? It'd be nice for it to at least get a roadmap of some sort or even an article that says "Hey, we've not forgotten"...

[Astartes Consul]

 

Oh I sure did lol, I have a celebratory post on Facebook marking this as our second FAQiversary.

 

To add context, Middle Earth have just got their 2nd FAQ since Heresy got its one. Surely, they have someone, anyone, working on 30k? It'd be nice for it to at least get a roadmap of some sort or even an article that says "Hey, we've not forgotten"...

 

 

Saw that on War Comm earlier, would be interesting to compare how many new rules/lists the Middle Earth game has had per FAQ compared to Heresy. 

[Brofist]

I'm a broken brained idiot and I read GWs financial reports. Heresy continues to make them significant money, so its here to stay.

 

I feel that the lack of support we've gotten has a lot to do with general chaos and prioritization in the studio: going from loosing Bligh to COVID to now loosing Anuj. Studio side it hasn't been in a good place.

[Noserenda]

I dont know if theyve broken it down more but previously Heresy IP figures have included all the BL books, Titanicus and assorted merch. The siege of Terra novel series seems to get a lot more marketing and general aplomb right now :/ 

Skitarii and Imperial army were definitely on the original roadmaps, though last i talked to them about imperial army specifically was before the Cults/Militia list and there was a point where "just use the 40k skitarii list its the same" was a solid option for those so i doubt they got much time compared to the shiny 30k specific mechanicum stuff. (Rightfully so while 40k/30k were linked)

[Prim]

It would be nice to see a statement from FW/GW saying something like 'Don't worry, we are working on the Heresy. We haven't forgotten it.' I mean, we got information on the return of the Old World for WFB even though it was still just a twinkle in the accountant's eye.

 

I'm sure that everyone has a wishlist of armies they'd like to see, units that need an update and characters from the novels they want rules for, I know I do. Honestly though, it would just be nice to see some progress in any form.

 

The idea that the loss of the main writer of the series coupled with Covid and the departure of the replacement writer is behind the delay/lack of progress makes sense, but in a company the size of GW, they should be more than capable of overcoming those issues if they focused on them. They don't lack for talented writers, artists and sculptors in their main studio and there are probably a lot of hopefuls trying to break into the hobby that they could approach.

 

For whatever reason, it seems that the HH series is not a priority for the company at the moment. They are content to slowly release bits and pieces while FW does other things. LotR is not something I have any interest in, but I'm not going to begrudge those players an FAQ and new minis. For a long time LotR was in the same boat HH is in now. All we can do is wait until our turn in the spotlight comes again. That could be this year, it could be in a couple of years, who knows. In the meantime, I have a mountain of minis to paint and (virus permitting), plenty of games to play with them.

[Brofist]

I'm mostly with you on those points, Prim. Only thing I can add is that GW and FW aren't exactly great places to work. They're the EA of the miniature industry and even when compared to underpaid and overworked digital games jobs, trad games jobs are even worse off. Bligh was good because he'd been grandfathered into the company and could basically do what he wanted. Anuj left because he got easier better paying work. They're not really set up to get good talent that sticks around.

 

e: Hell they don't even credit codex writers anymore

Edited February 11, 2021 by Brofist

[Astartes Consul]

I'm mostly with you on those points, Prim. Only thing I can add is that GW and FW aren't exactly great places to work. They're the EA of the miniature industry and even when compared to underpaid and overworked digital games jobs, trad games jobs are even worse off. Bligh was good because he'd been grandfathered into the company and could basically do what he wanted. Anuj left because he got easier better paying work. They're not really set up to get good talent that sticks around.

 

e: Hell they don't even credit codex writers anymore

Sounds like there is a workplace that needs to unionise

[Marshal Rohr]

It would be nice to see a statement from FW/GW saying something like 'Don't worry, we are working on the Heresy. We haven't forgotten it.' I mean, we got information on the return of the Old World for WFB even though it was still just a twinkle in the accountant's eye.

 

I'm sure that everyone has a wishlist of armies they'd like to see, units that need an update and characters from the novels they want rules for, I know I do. Honestly though, it would just be nice to see some progress in any form.

 

The idea that the loss of the main writer of the series coupled with Covid and the departure of the replacement writer is behind the delay/lack of progress makes sense, but in a company the size of GW, they should be more than capable of overcoming those issues if they focused on them. They don't lack for talented writers, artists and sculptors in their main studio and there are probably a lot of hopefuls trying to break into the hobby that they could approach.

 

For whatever reason, it seems that the HH series is not a priority for the company at the moment. They are content to slowly release bits and pieces while FW does other things. LotR is not something I have any interest in, but I'm not going to begrudge those players an FAQ and new minis. For a long time LotR was in the same boat HH is in now. All we can do is wait until our turn in the spotlight comes again. That could be this year, it could be in a couple of years, who knows. In the meantime, I have a mountain of minis to paint and (virus permitting), plenty of games to play with them.

This hits the nail on the head I think. They won’t even acknowledge the US is being having stock delayed or rerouted to fill EU orders, won’t even acknowledge if a new black book is being worked on, we’ve seen every heresy model that will be released in the next six months. For those of you that weren’t around in 3rd and 4th edition this is what it was like in the years between Codexes. We knew marines were always one or two years off but for a while only Elysians and Krieg and Imperial Armor were updates for Guard. Necrons went from like 2001/2 until 5th edition without new modes. Eldar, Guard, and Ork players are still waiting on updated troops. Modern GW is great about engaging on the Hobby side with Warhammer TV but as far as releases goes WarCom is essentially the modern marketing phenomenon of talking a lot about nothing, and many of the new releases in both main systems are one or two new kits and a bunch of useless cards and strategems.

 

 

Edit: I think the saddest part of all of it is even though new White Dwarf has circled back to some great content it’s still missing the soul of the old conversion heavy armies. When they do try something new like Simon Elsen’s army a bunch of Outer Circle anime girl profile pics harass warcom and Simon while the rest of us just sit back and get ignored or crapped on by reply guys on Twitter. I’m just extremely frustrated and alienated with GW right now, which sucks because they’re doing so, so many things I want to be enthusiastic about and then they do something like leave a snarky reply about when the next black book will be announced on Facebook. The Facebook communities have become even more toxic than Twitter somehow. The only real place to engage and see the kind of armies and projects that used to be all over the BnC is Instagram.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Marshal Rohr

[WrathOfTheLion]

Might be worth taking a break from some of those social media groups. I don't do any social media at all, so I'm not familiar with what's going on there right now. I don't care what Simon from their communication team does, but that seemed like an incredibly obvious thing for their team to have avoided. It was just a faux pas from them being somewhat careless, but there really isn't much more to it than that.

 

Now, I agree with others on book 10. I think it is the Shadow Crusade, due to the contextual model releases with Word Bearers and Ultramarines recently. If we start seeing some World Eater stuff pop up, then that would bring even more context to it all.

 

I don't know what their communication strategy is right now, but it looks to me like they're willing to let it it sit for a bit for whatever reason. It's been almost six moths now since the last black book, which is odd on not really even hearing anything from FW.

Edited February 12, 2021 by WrathOfTheLion

[Astartes Consul]

 

I don't know what their communication strategy is right now, but it looks to me like they're willing to let it it sit for a bit for whatever reason. It's been almost six moths now since the last black book, which is odd on not really even hearing anything from FW.

 

It is odd because, from a professional standpoint, GW's outward facing communications and engagement with the community has arguably never been better. 

 

But the AoD game system is completely at odds with this, even compared to the other Specialist Games, which I guess is why the 'Heresy won't last' sentiment is so common despite GW still listing it as one of their core games etc. 

[zedmeister]

 

One of the things that got me hyped for the ‘New’’ era for Heresy was when Andy Hoare took over Specialist Games. His Vox Cast interview around the time showed his passion for developing Heresy and he would be a similar figure with a lot of history with GW and internal capital to spend to make things happen.

 

That being said, I get the feeling the SG studio is still playing catch up from the runaway successes of Necromunda, Bloodbowl and Titanicus.

 

 

That has a ring of truth to it I reckon. I did wonder when they put out Blood Bowl 2nd edition whether that was an attempt to tie things over while they catch up or re-organise. I also think that a department re-org is happening behind the scenes and is causing some delays. Add to that the general lockdown over the past year and it adds up to a huge, delayed, confusing mess, for us at least.  

[SkimaskMohawk]

@marshal rohr is that the guy who had the primaris "30k sons of horus" army that he never played 30k with and was just an ultramarines 40k army or am I mixing that up with someone else.

[Astartes Consul]

 

 

One of the things that got me hyped for the ‘New’’ era for Heresy was when Andy Hoare took over Specialist Games. His Vox Cast interview around the time showed his passion for developing Heresy and he would be a similar figure with a lot of history with GW and internal capital to spend to make things happen.

 

That being said, I get the feeling the SG studio is still playing catch up from the runaway successes of Necromunda, Bloodbowl and Titanicus.

 

 

That has a ring of truth to it I reckon. I did wonder when they put out Blood Bowl 2nd edition whether that was an attempt to tie things over while they catch up or re-organise. I also think that a department re-org is happening behind the scenes and is causing some delays. Add to that the general lockdown over the past year and it adds up to a huge, delayed, confusing mess, for us at least.  

 

 

Yeah, I think it is pretty well established that GW didn't expect the revamp of the SG line to be so popular. Which is a good thing overall, but to fall out from that and prioritising ways of taking advantage of the SG market is not good for Heresy.

 

When it comes to the (endless) discussions about the future of AoD, part of me is incredibly frustrated that GW/FW can't seem to get basic communications around it right, while another part of me just shrugs because the AoD setting is always going to be a 'collectors' / 'hobbyists' game, rather than the much wider spread appeal that 40K and AoS are designed for.