Best chapter ancient, Ravenwing or Deathwing?

[solarisqc]

DA have two special option for ancient vs other chapter, both are great but who's the best for the chapter ancient upgrade?

 

Let start with the base template, Deathwing ancient or Ravenwing ancient:

 

Deathwing (Ancient in terminator armor): All chapter have this option but only the BA and DA can change the weapon loadout. BA are limited to 1 lightning clay or 1 thunder hammer and if they change weapon they lost the storm bolter.

 

DA  can replace the powerfist with a chainfist, but it can also choose the dual lightning claw or TH and Storm shield option. This last option is realy good because it's the only way to give an ancient a storm shield for a 4++, and with the terminator armor, you have a 1+/4++ save for your ancient. You have the deathwing keyword but don't get the inner circle rules (for now). 

 

The Deathwing ancient is the ultimate tank, 1+/4++ and can be surrond by a unit of Deathwing command squad of 5 th/ss with 1++/4++ and the inner circle rules for wound on 4+ only, the bodyguard rules and have acces to a stratagem for +1 toughness to help them agains S4 attack.

 

Ravenwing Ancient: We are the only chapter with this option, build-in 5++ against shooting, 2 shot plasma weapon with a range of 18'', move/advance 14''/20'' and can go as far as 28''/34'' with the Full throttle stratagem. If you don't advance, you can summon Deathwing terminator within 6'' of him with a 2CP stratagem.

 

Command squad: for free elite slot

• Deathwing command squad is an extra 2 ppm vs Deathwing Terminator for the bodyguard rules and 2-5 per unit.
• Ravenwing Blacknight is available in unit of 3-10 but don't have the bodyguard rules or extra cost.

Both are far from a taxe to give acces to the best specialist command available and you can have/want both unit in any DA armies.

 

Warlord trait:

I think the best WT available is the chapter ancient Steadfast Example. Giving obj. secure to core unit in a 6'' radius is the main reason to choose the Chapter ancient in my opinion. All other WT can be given to another character like an Apothecary want extra survivability.

 

Relic:

• Angel's Ambit is by far the most interesting relic available for chapter ancient (DA special issue wargear), it give an extra 3'' to any aura. With the ancient +1 leadership, the 4+ attack on death aura and obj, secure WT aura, you have 3 aura in a 9'' radius.
• Pennant of remembrance (Deathwing ancient only): you have a 6'' aura of 5+++ to all Deathwing infantry. It's realy interesting but lose efficiency if you have any Apothecary, who already give a 6+++ to all.
• Reliquary of the repentant (Ravenwing biker): you have a 3'' aura of -1 inv. save (4++ become 5++) to ennemy unit. Good to take care of ennemy character/dedicate assault unit with good inv. save
• Standard of the unforgiving hunt (ravenwing ancient only): +1 advance and charge 6'' aura for ravenwing unit. Only add it to the list because it specific to the ravenwing ancient but i see no use in this relic in 9ed.

Now, with all those info, i can't tell if Ravenwing or Deathwing ancient is the best, both are by far superior to any chapter ancient available to other chapter, but they are so good in different way:

 

Deathwing Ancient is the best tank/melee and can survive melee with dedicate melee unit targeting him.

Ravenwing Ancient is the best range and the more mobile, able to move the Chapter banner aura from on side of the battlefield to the other in a single movement phase.

 

For now, my Chapter ancient will be a Ravenwing ancient with Steadfast Example and Angel's Ambit relic ready to summon a Deathwing command squad on a midfield/ennemy objective on turn 2 and ready to move on the other side of the battlefield on turn 3 to give obj.secure to a big bike squad where it's need the most.

 

What is your favorite DA Chapter ancient and what is your plan for him?

[Archaeinox]

Disregard, I'll reply later on PC when I can sit down

Edited October 30, 2020 by Archaeinox

[templarphoenix]

None, basic banner rules is useless.

[solarisqc]

None, basic banner rules is useless.

Why? a 4+ chance to get a free range attack with a Blacknight overcharging plasma talon can do up to 4 damage and an Attack bike MM can do up to 16 damage within 12''.

 

I agree that in melee 1 extra attack on core unit is close to useless, but for range weapon it can be realy good and now in 9ed it's not only infantry, but CORE unit, it mean all ravenwing bike can do the extra range attack with range weapon (excluding character).

 

Also, don't forget you never move in the enemy turn, Grim resolve will always give the +1 to hit.

 

Shooting a 10 man blacknight squad close to a banner is 10 free overcharging plasma shot if you wipe the squad and get half of your 4+. Those 10 St 8 AP-3 D2 shot can easily make big trouble.

 

Killing an attack bike with MM within 12'' of a tank in aura range can be a dead sentence for many tank in the game and if it can target a character he's in big trouble.

 

Edit: Banner also work for Dreadnought now, but i will not be surprise if this get remove with errata. All Dreadnought can do the extra melee attack or shoot 1 range weapon on 4+  when they are kill.  They can even shoot in melee, the shooting attack can be the best option available with multiple shot hitting on 3+ (5+ for redemptor) including the -1 to shoot in melee and the +1 for grim resolve.

Edited October 30, 2020 by solarisqc

[MeatGrinder]

Honestly, Deathwing ancient hands down for any TAC lists. It looks like we'll be taking deathwing knights/terminators in a lot of lists, and even if youre just taking bladeguard hes still getting good value from his banner. Innate deep strike is pretty fantastic, letting you drop him where he needs to be to pop off some obsec bikers or terminators, or grant his FNP to something about to come under heavy fire. Yes, you do lose inner circle and a point of T, but gain the option of a 1+4++ with a 5+++.

Ravenwing ancient is far more niche, really looking at situations where you cant kill off denial units when you need to and need that obsec from the get go, or won't be taking units that benefit from the DW banner. In those situations, are you not better off just taking a list with more obsec units to begin with and not taking an ancient at all?

[bigtrouble]

deathwing with relic banner and obsec WLT. probably give him double lightning claws

[templarphoenix]

 

 

None, basic banner rules is useless.

Why? a 4+ chance to get a free range attack with a Blacknight overcharging plasma talon can do up to 4 damage and an Attack bike MM can do up to 16 damage within 12''.

 

I agree that in melee 1 extra attack on core unit is close to useless, but for range weapon it can be realy good and now in 9ed it's not only infantry, but CORE unit, it mean all ravenwing bike can do the extra range attack with range weapon (excluding character).

 

Also, don't forget you never move in the enemy turn, Grim resolve will always give the +1 to hit.

 

Shooting a 10 man blacknight squad close to a banner is 10 free overcharging plasma shot if you wipe the squad and get half of your 4+. Those 10 St 8 AP-3 D2 shot can easily make big trouble.

 

Killing an attack bike with MM within 12'' of a tank in aura range can be a dead sentence for many tank in the game and if it can target a character he's in big trouble.

 

Edit: Banner also work for Dreadnought now, but i will not be surprise if this get remove with errata. All Dreadnought can do the extra melee attack or shoot 1 range weapon on 4+ when they are kill. They can even shoot in melee, the shooting attack can be the best option available with multiple shot hitting on 3+ (5+ for redemptor) including the -1 to shoot in melee and the +1 for grim resolve.

You have to be killed, then pass 4+, then to hit, then to wound...too many conditions to met to get this to work.

[Komodo]

Chief Apothecary is my best bet. For both RW and DW it's super good.