Deathwatch Supplement reviews

[thinkerofuselessthings]

Dear Brother, 

find below a clean and easy to read review. 

 

 

It's really clear and you can find every rules. 

 

Just one suggestion, please take a deep breath before read the relics pages, some are really strong.

 

have a good watching,

 

 

[Lemondish]

I really enjoy these Relics, and as usual the Crusade rules have me super excited to eventually get going on that side of the game (I can't play in person yet). 

 

An interesting change from the Index regarding the Deathwatch Teleport Homer. In the Index, the description of this ability on the Deathwatch Terminator Squad datasheet required the unit to contain a keyword Terminator model, which meant that it could only work if all members of the Proteus Kill Team were Terminators. That made it pretty limited, except in cases of combat squad. 

 

Now, in the Supplement, the keyword limitation is gone. This means you can add a Terminator to a Proteus Kill Team and since the ability from that data sheet does not require the keyword any longer you can therefore include and use a Deathwatch teleport homer even with just one Terminator in the unit. I think that's pretty neat. Unfortunately, this distinction isn't included on the Kill Team Cassius datasheet as the way the ability is listed there still keys off the keyword, which the unit will only have if the Salamander Terminator is the last one alive. 

 

Also, some Sanction of the Black Vault with Artificer Bolt Cache ideas, in order of potential impact with the grand winner at the end...

 

Inceptor Sergeant, 6 Str 5, AP1, 1 damage SIA shots to 18"

Deathwatch Veteran Biker Sergeant with a storm bolter, 8 Str 4, AP0, 1 damage SIA shots at 24"

Aggressor Sergeant, 6 Str 4, AP0, 1 damage SIA shots to 18"

Eliminator Sergeant, which would bestow SIA onto a single sniper rifle - could be funny

 

But the real winner is probably the Devastator Centurion Sergeant, with 6 Str 5, AP1, 2 damage shots at 36", and 6/12 Str 4, AP0, 1 damage shots to 24"

[Qui-Gon]

 

I really enjoy these Relics, and as usual the Crusade rules have me super excited to eventually get going on that side of the game (I can't play in person yet). 

 

An interesting change from the Index regarding the Deathwatch Teleport Homer. In the Index, the description of this ability on the Deathwatch Terminator Squad datasheet required the unit to contain a keyword Terminator model, which meant that it could only work if all members of the Proteus Kill Team were Terminators. That made it pretty limited, except in cases of combat squad. 

 

Now, in the Supplement, the keyword limitation is gone. This means you can add a Terminator to a Proteus Kill Team and since the ability from that data sheet does not require the keyword any longer you can therefore include and use a Deathwatch teleport homer even with just one Terminator in the unit. I think that's pretty neat. Unfortunately, this distinction isn't included on the Kill Team Cassius datasheet as the way the ability is listed there still keys off the keyword, which the unit will only have if the Salamander Terminator is the last one alive. 

 

Also, some Sanction of the Black Vault with Artificer Bolt Cache ideas, in order of potential impact with the grand winner at the end...

 

Inceptor Sergeant, 6 Str 5, AP1, 1 damage SIA shots to 18"

Deathwatch Veteran Biker Sergeant with a storm bolter, 8 Str 4, AP0, 1 damage SIA shots at 24"

Aggressor Sergeant, 6 Str 4, AP0, 1 damage SIA shots to 18"

Eliminator Sergeant, which would bestow SIA onto a single sniper rifle - could be funny

 

But the real winner is probably the Devastator Centurion Sergeant, with 6 Str 5, AP1, 2 damage shots at 36", and 6/12 Str 4, AP0, 1 damage shots to 24"

 

 

About the teleport homer, seems like something to ask in the FAQ collection thread for the codex, so we can get the word out asap.

[Lemondish]

You're free to include it there if you'd like. I usually stay away from those threads - the draw to discuss and argue is too big for me so to ensure it stays on track I stay as far away as I can lol

[Qui-Gon]

If you feel that there is an issue, in either design, wording, or intent, you just need to ask and leave. We all see things differently and combing through tons of pages looking for something specific is more than one man can do. I missed that discrepency, case in point. Discussing rules that are sadly ambiguous won't get us anywhere unless we have GW weigh in...and then we can discuss everything left. Let's not give us anything to bitch about, yes?

[Debauchery101]

The same channel also has the FW compendium review up as well. Tempests are still super points efficient and Relic Contemptor gets the duty eternal boost.

[Qui-Gon]

Idk though, Debauch, I'm not paying 190 for a twin lascannon contemptor, plus a CP to take it, when I could just as easily get cheaper and better from elsewhere in the two books we have access to. I honestly think some FW units are priced out of viability.

[Debauchery101]

Idk though, Debauch, I'm not paying 190 for a twin lascannon contemptor, plus a CP to take it, when I could just as easily get cheaper and better from elsewhere in the two books we have access to. I honestly think some FW units are priced out of viability.

well im leaning more towards twin plasma. Its 170 with the cyclone. Any unit he sees with 6 models is going feel some pain while not Overcharging Edited October 31, 2020 by Debauchery101

[Debauchery101]

I've been sitting on 2 unbuilt redemptors and some people been hyping them up but theyre trash.

The relic contempor has more movement which doesn't degrade and starts with 2+ ws/bs..fnp and invul...I wouldn't call it an auto include but if you want to have any armor I'd first take one of these before anything else.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Debauchery101

[Qui-Gon]

Not sure if you've seen the updated profile there Debauch, but no, the relic contemptor does not have WS/BS2+ or a FNP. Its stats are the exact same as the default contemptor from the Codex Space Marine, granted with vastly expanded options and a -1 CP to take him built in.

[Debauchery101]

When I watched a review I only heard him mention the similar Statline to the normal contemptor but he didn't mention the bs going to 3+ or losing fnp. But now I read another laying it all out. Its not bad. Still better than a redemptor and now our only pseudo Mortis style dread. But definitely changes my outlook on it.

Well I was about to get into a game in an hour but I'm going to switch this list up. I have to play vs death guard and ill never hear the end of it if I win and used some unit thats about to be officially way different

I'm thinking a termite loaded up with vets, librarian and Apothecary. Instead of the techmarine and dread

Edited November 1, 2020 by Debauchery101

[Lemondish]

I disagree that it is better than a Redemptor as I find the CP requirement to even field it is a bit too much.

[Debauchery101]

I disagree that it is better than a Redemptor as I find the CP requirement to even field it is a bit too much.

I hate degrading profiles. The RC is still a decent platform to carry a lot of firepower and since its movement doesn't degrade it is fairly mobile.

I look at the CP cost as a trade off for upgrading characters or making a team a specialist

[Lemondish]

 

I disagree that it is better than a Redemptor as I find the CP requirement to even field it is a bit too much.

I hate degrading profiles. The RC is still a decent platform to carry a lot of firepower and since its movement doesn't degrade it is fairly mobile.

I look at the CP cost as a trade off for upgrading characters or making a team a specialist

Fair enough. Though I find the degrading profile issue to be mighty overblown in my experience. Things don't tend to be wounded for long in my matches. It's either untouched or dead lol

[Banjulhu]

So the veteran biker in Cassius' kill team still gets SIA but normal veteran bikers dont. Got to love that consistency in rules writing.

[thinkerofuselessthings]

Goonhammer posted their review, it is super exciting reading "really competitive" army

 

https://www.goonhammer.com/codex-supplement-deathwatch-the-goonhammer-review/

 

The most interesting part of our new rules is (IMO) the adaptability of deathwatch play style. We have choices to make (that is always good) in every part of the game:

 

- listbuilding: so many choice, from Veterans to Killteam. How we decide to build our CORE army will have high impact on the way we will play.

 

- pregame: Teleportation Chamber is a great stratagem, even if tuned down. The ability to DS Aggressors with flamers, Dreadgnoughts, Eradicators or other effective units is really good with the appropriate secondary objective. The choice of the right battlefield role with our chapter tactics.

 

- Doctrines: having the possibility to modulate how doctrines interact with a game sequences may be powerful, and require to have a long sight plan.

 

- stratagems: some are really thematic while powerful. The ability to swap Chapter Tactics until the end of the turn gives incredibile versatility. I'm thinking to Bladeguard veterans and Blood Angels Tactics, or Eradicator/Hellblaster/Inceptors/Redemptor and Dark Angles +1 to hit, or even Aggressors and Imperial Fists.

 

So Versatility is our Super Doctrine.

 

I think we will have fun...

 

Stay Vigil

[GrinNfool]

I think making our squads CHONKY is our real super doctrine honestly... but thats just me.  DW can build absurdly tanky set ups... going to be REAL hard to shift.

 

Currently I am eyeing set ups for of 76+ t5 equivalent wounds, on top of 40+ t4 wounds...  A good portion with 3+/5++/5+++  Just absurd levels of beef.  The CHONK is very real now.

Edited November 1, 2020 by GrinNfool

[MagicHat]

So the veteran biker in Cassius' kill team still gets SIA but normal veteran bikers dont. Got to love that consistency in rules writing.

 

Cassius veteran biker is the only biker model with shot selectors, so it is very consistent. 

[Lemondish]

 

 

So the veteran biker in Cassius' kill team still gets SIA but normal veteran bikers dont. Got to love that consistency in rules writing.

Cassius veteran biker is the only biker model with shot selectors, so it is very consistent.

Same with Cassius and Nate being the only ones with shot selectors on their pistols.

[Inquisitor Trinity]

I can see the viability of a relic contemptor has been discussed, for my money it's still a good quad lascannon battery and is more durable than the a predator (which we now have access to) and can also throw out 'wisdom of the ancient' which it can itself benefit from (unless i'm mistaken?) as it has core. 

 

I was more curious to get people's opinion on the leviathan. Now it's significantly cheaper points wise and can also take volkite calivers, yes it has lost some of it's potentcy but it's gained duty eternal as well so it's not all bad. 

 

I'm currently still planning to take a quad lascannon contemptor and a leviathan with volkites and i'm thinking either stormcannon arrays or possible something else. The points difference being negligible between the loadouts and assault being more viable this edition i'm a bit torn on what to give it. Thoughts everyone? Or any deathwatch combos you can think of?

[Ishagu]

I've seen a few reviews of the book, and have taken a look at the rules, relics, etc.

 

It's very exciting to see the DW take their rightful place as both a powerful army, and one filled with fun and thematic rules. Some of the possible combinations are pretty scary.

 

On the topic of the Relic Contemptor - it's still worthwhile. Definitely not as powerful, but the output is overall the same as before as long as you combine it with the appropriate auras/character abilities. In a way we should be glad that no single Dread option is better than all others.

 

The Leviathan with Stormcannons and Volkites is also very interesting. It's not as powerful as before, but it's so cheap now compared to what it was. Easy to slot into a list and you're getting 26 shots dealing 2 damage at 30" range or higher.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Ishagu

[Qui-Gon]

I'm most happy at the prospect of a Salamanders Successor Watch Master with the Spear of the First Vigil. S8 -3 3D attacks finally make the watch master feel like a beast. Maybe not the best combination, but one tha makes me happy

[Debauchery101]

I switched up playing without the dreadnought yesterday and should have just kept it lol. I was going up against death guard. I changed up the list for transports and lots of vets.

I used the apothecary and librarian buffs for extra durability but you can't beat deathguard at their own game.

It barely won via points but t3 and on for deathguard just trucked the hell outta me. Its also the first time I've faced 3 defilers. Sure woulda been nice to have dual plasma cannons or quad las cannons well out of range

[xenomortis]

Goonhammer, Hammer of Math for the DW supplement:

 

https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-deathwatch-supplement/

[Lemondish]

Goonhammer, Hammer of Math for the DW supplement:

 

https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-deathwatch-supplement/

A great read, especially the sections pertaining to SIA. I think it also helps to include their analysis of power weapons in your reading list if you're eager to squeeze out as much efficiency as you can from Veterans: https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-power-weapons/