GK 2000 (Final Tournament list)

[Skywrath]

Sorry for le spam, but again, new list, new variation, so a new thread. List is as follows:

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [114 PL, 12CP, 1,994pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) 

 

Detachment CP

 

+ HQ +

 

Brother-Captain [7 PL, 133pts]: 4: First to the Fray, Cuirass of Sacrifice, Edict Imperator, Storm Bolter, Warlord

. Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

 

Chaplain [6 PL, 113pts]: 5. Recitation of Projection, 6. Invocation of Focus, Storm Bolter, Warp Shaping

 

Grand Master Voldus [8 PL, 160pts]: Armoured Resilience, Empyrean Domination, Warp Shaping

 

+ Troops +

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 100pts]: Gate of Infinity

. 4x Grey Knight (Sword): 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter

. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Sword

 

Terminator Squad [22 PL, 424pts]: Sanctuary

. Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

. Terminator (Daemon Hammer): Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter

. 4x Terminator (Halberd): 4x Nemesis Force Halberd, 4x Storm Bolter

. Terminator (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. Terminator (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. 2x Terminator (Warding Stave): 2x Nemesis Warding Stave, 2x Storm Bolter

 

Terminator Squad [22 PL, 424pts]: Sanctuary

. Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

. Terminator (Daemon Hammer): Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter

. 4x Terminator (Halberd): 4x Nemesis Force Halberd, 4x Storm Bolter

. Terminator (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. Terminator (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. 2x Terminator (Warding Stave): 2x Nemesis Warding Stave, 2x Storm Bolter

 

+ Elites +

 

Paladin Ancient [6 PL, 105pts]: Hammerhand

. Storm Bolter and Falchion: Nemesis Falchion, Storm Bolter

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 158pts]: Gate of Infinity, Twin lascannon

. Dreadnought Combat Weapon

. . Stom Bolter: Storm Bolter

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Interceptor Squad [14 PL, 161pts]: Vortex of Doom

. 6x Interceptor (Sword): 6x Nemesis Force Sword, 6x Storm Bolter

. Interceptor Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Sword

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Purgation Squad [7 PL, 108pts]: Astral Aim

. 4x Purgator (Psilencer): 4x Psilencer

. Purgator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Sword

 

Purgation Squad [7 PL, 108pts]: Astral Aim

. 4x Purgator (Psilencer): 4x Psilencer

. Purgator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Sword

 

++ Total: [114 PL, 12CP, 1,994pts] ++

 

General idea and thoughts:

 

Going down the list.

 

The BC, Aurelius has the WL trait of First into the Fray. His plan is to be in deep-strike with a 10m terminator squad/ancient, and getting those charge rolls off T2, so he can knock an opponent off the marker. Either that, or he reinforces the other 10m terminator squad on the board to address a threat in melee. With that in mind, his other purpose is to be a MW amplifier. As I am expecting to be facing marines with T5 such as Bladeguard, getting those 24" smites off in smite tide should do the trick very nicely. For that reason, I'm probably going to be taking Linebreaker, unless I run into infiltrators, at which point I'm probably going to deploy them T3.

 

The Chaplain, Argentius is camping with the two purgation squads in obscuring cover with the Dreadnought to address things via Astral Aim, and his litanies. As I don't expect him to be in melee combat, then I'm giving him Warp Shaping to change tides as I see fit - I don't see any other power besides GOI being useful. I'm still in a three-way tie whether I should give him the ranged litany, AP litany, or the re-roll to damage litany. The arguments I see for this is that the ranged litany is useful T1/T2, because any opponent worth a damn would know what they are capable off. The AP litany is designed to address Bladeguard and other such nuisances, while the re-roll to damage litany is useful for clearing out either those, or Invader ATV's. I'm stumped on which two I should take. Speaking of which, how many litanies can the chaplain recite each turn? I got into a tussle with a SM player about this, the other day. 

 

Voldus is in a similar boat, probably camping with the 5m strike squad as a CP battery/beatstick.

 

Strikes are sitting with Voldus and are meant as mobile obsec units. I don't expect them to last past T2.

 

The two terminator squads hold points, and the other terminator squad (as mentioned before) will be in deepstrike with the BC/Ancient to knock an enemy unit in the back point with the re-roll to charges provided by said BC. The other 10m terminator squad is camping in obscuring cover holding a point, but ready to shift with GoI provided by the Dreadnought to a back point. For this reason, one of my three secondaries would be Linebreaker, as I can comfortably get that off T2, and maybe even T1 with interceptors. They are armed with psycannons this time around to address the marine meta of the Bladeguard/Redemptors/Invader ATV's. 

 

Speaking of which, thanks to Gnomeo, I'm starting to see a place for the Interceptors off the list. They stay in obscuring cover in T1, and with the trick provided they shunt towards the BC, get the Edict imperator combo off with Psybolt Ammunition, and then hide again. Rinse and repeat. They also will be the vortex Casters with the 3D6 roll due to empyric channelling, and hoping for the best.

 

The Paladin Ancient is a mobile beat-stick designed to amplify either of the 2 terminator squads or the interceptor squad, if the threat needs to be addressed in melee. I'm still not sure whether Hammerhand is a good option, and whether Edict would be better (if he's reinforcing the interceptors), so I'll leave that one to you.

 

The Venerable Dreadnought is also a mobile beatstick, or he can be sitting with the purgators to gate them, himself or the chaplain as needs be. If the purgators do get charged, I position him in such a way, where he just takes care of them with the combat weapon. The other possibility is giving him a missile launcher, but I'm not sold on that idea, as having a beatstick to reinforce my weakest elements is a way to counter the marine-meta and us not being buffed with 2W/3W.

 

Purgation squads - address chaff with Preternal Senses in overwatch, and with AA. Reinforced with the Chaplain/Dreadnought to get the most out of them. Will probably be keeping these units alive at all costs. 

 

Weaknesses - glaring weakness of not having 2W/3W aside, I'm not sold on the idea of giving the GoI to the Dreadnought, and only having two instances of it in the game (1 if you count how squishy strikes are). I also don't like having the one instance of Vortex of Doom, but I can live with that. Other than this, the psycannons on the terminators are wasted if the lists I'm up against is quite spammy and has little vehicles or things with high T in it. 2 damage psycannons are OK, but seeing how this tournament is WYSIWYG, I can't make them into psilencer terminators. On the other flip-side of that argument is that there are a lot of vehicles and the terminators/venerable dreadnought are dead. I have no way of dealing with that, aside from burning CP (not to mention I burn about 5CP a turn, roughly), on psychic onslaught. 

 

Hot take: I find the Apothecary in this list to be wasted. He only heals one unit, or revives one, and seeing how I'm expecting to fight marines all day long (F in chat boys),  they will probably be dead before he can revive the whole squad. I could perhaps heal a back-end squad in a sneaky manner, but that's probably about it. I think the Paladin Ancient is much better than the Apothecary in this list.

 

The secondaries I'm thinking of taking are: Linebreaker, Raise Banners, <insert third secondary here, probably Thin their Ranks/Grind them down/Asassinate>

 

So with all this in mind, thoughts?

Edited November 2, 2020 by Skywrath

[The Woodsman]

A pleasure as always to go through one of your lists, Skywrath. I'll try and break down my ideas into several small points for ease of reference and response.

 

1. Overall impressions: I think the list has a good basis. Trying to make the most of the Tide of Convergence to back up resilient and effective Troops is looking like the way forwards with Grey Knights, unless of course you're looking at really maxing out on Convergence (but while this can work, I doubt it'll stand up to everything and power armor spam remains fragile). There's a good balance of weapons and unit types, and while Troops are a little limited, there's always the option of going with Combat Squads on the Terminators, if you're playing a mission that has a lot of objectives and you're facing MSU of Troops. I'm not sold on Cuirass as a relic, protecting your Warlord is no longer as important as it was, and in the long run it won't save you if your opponent decides to go for the Brother-Captain. It might not be relevant one I explain how I might change the list, but Augurium Scrolls could be a better pick, you've got a lot of Attacks coming from those Terminators, exploding 6s to hit in combat could really boost your melee potential. Other than that, Psychic Powers seem legit, you could definitely get away with swapping one Warp Shaping for Ethereal Manipulation though. In this instance you don't really need to double up on Warp Shaping, as you're most likely to stay in Convergence from T2 onwards, and even if you were to get "stuck" in Convergence, you could live with it fine. Ethereal Manipulation will give full re-rolls to say, shunting Interceptors of Gating/Deep Striking Terminators, give it some thought. That's pretty much it for overall impressions, other than it kind of lacks heavy fire support or any real melee heavy-hitters (e.g. GMDK can fill up a lack of heavy guns by their ability to wreck face in combat). 

 

2. What I would change: I'll summarize quickly and then go through the swaps one by one. The first thing that really glares at me is the Interceptor unit. To really pull the weight they need to in order to be valuable, I really think you need the 10-man unit, we thus need a way to find those points. As mentioned above, I also feel its lacking bigger guns. Finally, looking at your characters, I wonder if there isn't a way to get the same result while spending less points on them. Here's what I would do (and I've calculated this, don't ya worry ;) ): 

 

Get rid of the Bro-Cap and Voldus, in favor of a Librarian. Now, I know modelling might be an issue, but as I've said before in other posts, I'm really not sold on hammers on WS3+ units, the loss of reliability when you can get similar results from Halberds + Hammerhand, to me is points better spent elsewhere. Mind you, I think hammers are great on characters and Paragons, but I just don't feel they warrant such a combined points cost in a faction which already costs so much for what you get. With those changes, you'd free up the points needed to fill out the Interceptors and add in a second Dreadnought with Lascannons, upping your anti-tank from somewhat lacking to passable. The resulting list looks like this:

 

Chaplain
Librarian (storm bolter & hammer)

 

5 Strikes
2x 10 Terminators (2x psycannons/each)

 

2x Ven Dread (Lascannon)

Ancient

 

10 Interceptors

 

2x 5 Purgators (4x psilencers/each)

 

Total points: 1993. 

 

Here's how I break it down:

 

2.1 The Librarian/Characters. In your list, Voldus essentially is serving as psychic power toolkit - something the Librarian can actually do somewhat better. With the Lore Master WL Trait, he gets those three powers (Empyrean Domination, Warp Shaping, Armored Resilience), and can take either Sanctic Shard for +1/re-rolls on Psychics, or Artisan Nullifier Matrix for +1/-1 in a 6" aura - thus more reliable at casting those spells. Granted, he's not as proficient in combat and doesn't grant re-rolls. That being said, Voldus isn't getting to combat unless you're wasting using Gate on him, or you're Deep Striking him, in which case he isn't on the field T1 to use the spells you've taken him for. As for the re-rolls, for a meagre 1CP (which you're getting back for sure), you can provide a re-roll one aura from a Ven Dread. As for First to the Fray, while it can be useful, I don't feel this list really makes the most out of it, IMO it really shines when you're coming in with 4-5 units or a couple of GMDKs that really need to make that charge. In this instance, you're basically banking on the one unit of Terminators, in which case spending the CP for a re-roll is fine, since its allowing you to get that extra power. You could then give Edict or Ethereal Manipulation to the Chaplain, and the power left over to the Ancient. You'd then keep Sanctuary on a unit of Termis, while giving the other Hammerhand. You've even got spare points to give him a combi-weapon, if you're so inclined.

 

2.2 Hammers. I've been through this earlier, but if you can swap them for halberds/warding staves, those 60 points will go a long way in making your list more efficient.

 

2.3 The Second Dreadnought. 2 extra Lascannon shots hitting on 2s, a second option for Wisdom of the Ancients, and that extra Gate you were worried about not having. Plus, the Ven Dreads can pack a punch in combat, I feel two is a sweet spot. If you got him, I'd definitely consider him. 

 

2.4 10 Interceptors. While it might not seem like a huge difference at first glance, those 3 additional Interceptors go a long way. As I was saying in the Interceptor thread, every bolter you lose hurts, and you're already starting out with 12 less shots. Every extra body you lose is another 4 - the damage output you're getting from them will go down fast, as well as what you're getting out of those CP spent on Psybolt. Less bodies also means less ability to contest/steal objectives.

 

2.5 Just a word on the Strike Squad. Personally, I don't feel great about taking a unit that you know in advance is "dead weight". They fill out the battalion, which allows you to get the second dread, and in a Patrol those 100 points wouldn't really be able to be spent to effect. This being said, I find they can fill a better role than just sitting in your backfield waiting to get shot. Try placing them in Deep Strike, with Vortex, and using them as a mortal wound threat and something to keep your opponent thinking about his backfield, screening and movement. Anything that forces your opponent to make a choice is good. They can be used to score an extra point on Engage, Linebreaker or grab a forgotten/abandoned objective in later Turns, or just add the extra storm bolter shots you need to clear an objective. They might not have 2 Wounds, but they have their uses! 100 points for 2, or maybe even 5/10 VP is a fair trade in my books.

 

3. As for secondaries, I think you've got the right idea about Linebreaker or Engage - go with the one favored by the deployment type. As mentioned in the Secondaries thread, secondaries are best chosen in regards to what you're facing, but I'd steer clear of any that demand an action, unless it is a psychic action, in which case sacrificing a Smite or lesser power for 3 VP is a good trade. 

 

Those a pretty much my thoughts. Again, I understand making do with what you've got, but we can always explore theory, right? Plus, tournaments a great deal of fun without bringing the most optimised list, and I think yours could do well mid-tier, and take a good shot against top-tier lists, even if you don't score a victory. I doubt you'll get slammed against anything, which is a good starting point. 

[Skywrath]

A pleasure as always to go through one of your lists, Skywrath. I'll try and break down my ideas into several small points for ease of reference and response.

 

1. Overall impressions: I think the list has a good basis. Trying to make the most of the Tide of Convergence to back up resilient and effective Troops is looking like the way forwards with Grey Knights, unless of course you're looking at really maxing out on Convergence (but while this can work, I doubt it'll stand up to everything and power armor spam remains fragile). There's a good balance of weapons and unit types, and while Troops are a little limited, there's always the option of going with Combat Squads on the Terminators, if you're playing a mission that has a lot of objectives and you're facing MSU of Troops. I'm not sold on Cuirass as a relic, protecting your Warlord is no longer as important as it was, and in the long run it won't save you if your opponent decides to go for the Brother-Captain. It might not be relevant one I explain how I might change the list, but Augurium Scrolls could be a better pick, you've got a lot of Attacks coming from those Terminators, exploding 6s to hit in combat could really boost your melee potential. Other than that, Psychic Powers seem legit, you could definitely get away with swapping one Warp Shaping for Ethereal Manipulation though. In this instance you don't really need to double up on Warp Shaping, as you're most likely to stay in Convergence from T2 onwards, and even if you were to get "stuck" in Convergence, you could live with it fine. Ethereal Manipulation will give full re-rolls to say, shunting Interceptors of Gating/Deep Striking Terminators, give it some thought. That's pretty much it for overall impressions, other than it kind of lacks heavy fire support or any real melee heavy-hitters (e.g. GMDK can fill up a lack of heavy guns by their ability to wreck face in combat). 

 

The cuirass will be changed for Augurium scrolls, I wasn't aware we had such a good relic, thanks for pointing that out! With Warp Shaping over Ethereal Manipulation, I don't find I need the latter, and it is handy to have two instances of Warp Shaping in case I need to use either the melee tide or the smite tide. Melee tide because the terminator blob with the BC/Ancient will come out roaring, and the smite tide to maybe finish off some pesky bladeguard or something I need killed. You are right, getting stuck in convergence isn't a problem, but it's nice to have said option. However what about my power placement of the Paladin Ancient with regards to Edict/Hammerhand? Heavy fire support is a problem, I admit, however I fail to see how you came out to the problem of melee heavy hitters? I got a BC with a TH, Voldus, Ancient, a Dreadnought with a claw. In fact, I have a lot of them. I can't squeeze a second dreadnought in, because mine is built as a doomglaive, and I can't proxy it's psycannon as a lascannon, otherwise I would have.

 

2. What I would change: I'll summarize quickly and then go through the swaps one by one. The first thing that really glares at me is the Interceptor unit. To really pull the weight they need to in order to be valuable, I really think you need the 10-man unit, we thus need a way to find those points. As mentioned above, I also feel its lacking bigger guns. Finally, looking at your characters, I wonder if there isn't a way to get the same result while spending less points on them. Here's what I would do (and I've calculated this, don't ya worry ): 

 

Get rid of the Bro-Cap and Voldus, in favor of a Librarian. Now, I know modelling might be an issue, but as I've said before in other posts, I'm really not sold on hammers on WS3+ units, the loss of reliability when you can get similar results from Halberds + Hammerhand, to me is points better spent elsewhere. Mind you, I think hammers are great on characters and Paragons, but I just don't feel they warrant such a combined points cost in a faction which already costs so much for what you get. With those changes, you'd free up the points needed to fill out the Interceptors and add in a second Dreadnought with Lascannons, upping your anti-tank from somewhat lacking to passable. The resulting list looks like this:

 

Chaplain

Librarian (storm bolter & hammer)

 

5 Strikes

2x 10 Terminators (2x psycannons/each)

 

2x Ven Dread (Lascannon)

Ancient

 

10 Interceptors

 

2x 5 Purgators (4x psilencers/each)

 

Total points: 1993. 

 

I have that list already, check my other thread, it's called Double Terror. I'll provide a link to it later here. It just gets rid of the interceptors for another dreadnought and with Kaldor/Voldus. Not to sound arrogant, but the Double Terror list I have, is stronger than the one you proposed. It's a good list, just needs a few things to make it spicy. Then there is the fact that I'm expecting to fight a lot of marines, and not a lot of vehicles. I do concede to your point that I don't have a lot of lascannons/plasma weapons to delete vehicles, but that's why I sorta negated this with psycannons. That being said, I plugged in those units into another list, and saved for future reference to tinker around with. This can be the basis for a pretty mobile list. With regards to my units and WYSIWYG, you'd notice that most of the ones have TH on them, however this list the PA units don't have them. That's because I can use a Strike Squad member (so I have 2 strikes squads with psycannons, 2 with hammers, rest with swords, 2 purgation and interceptor squads with justicars having a hammer) as a proxy for the sergeant for another squad. My list is built around that unit avaliability, so I can't do what you suggested, however I think I might pick up yet another box later on. So just to clarify, in the unit of 10 strikes, I can use 5 of them, as "justicars" for another squad. That being said, I don't have enough strike units to proxy all of them, so I'm going to use one of my interceptors as a justicar for a squad. Does that make sense?

 

Here's how I break it down:

 

2.1 The Librarian/Characters. In your list, Voldus essentially is serving as psychic power toolkit - something the Librarian can actually do somewhat better. With the Lore Master WL Trait, he gets those three powers (Empyrean Domination, Warp Shaping, Armored Resilience), and can take either Sanctic Shard for +1/re-rolls on Psychics, or Artisan Nullifier Matrix for +1/-1 in a 6" aura - thus more reliable at casting those spells. Granted, he's not as proficient in combat and doesn't grant re-rolls. That being said, Voldus isn't getting to combat unless you're wasting using Gate on him, or you're Deep Striking him, in which case he isn't on the field T1 to use the spells you've taken him for. As for the re-rolls, for a meagre 1CP (which you're getting back for sure), you can provide a re-roll one aura from a Ven Dread. As for First to the Fray, while it can be useful, I don't feel this list really makes the most out of it, IMO it really shines when you're coming in with 4-5 units or a couple of GMDKs that really need to make that charge. In this instance, you're basically banking on the one unit of Terminators, in which case spending the CP for a re-roll is fine, since its allowing you to get that extra power. You could then give Edict or Ethereal Manipulation to the Chaplain, and the power left over to the Ancient. You'd then keep Sanctuary on a unit of Termis, while giving the other Hammerhand. You've even got spare points to give him a combi-weapon, if you're so inclined.

 

He'd have Sanctic, I don't find the Artisan is either better or worse than the alternative. Voldus is there as a secondary beatstick if my BC dies, so he would be next to maybe that 5m strike squads to take care of some problems in melee. I think the opposite regarding First into the Fray. That 10m terminator blob is pretty scary, especially if you get linebreaker, re-roll to charge with the BC. Now, that being said in my previous game against an Ork player, I had 4 units that could charge/re-roll charges, and ALL of them failed (including the re-roll to charge). Had that exact same thing happen in the tournament, that cost me the game (previous one, not this one), so I'm definitely hearing you regards this. However, if I don't have the BC with that trait and the terminators, I don't have a way to answer melee threats like Space Wolves/Blood Angels. My current list is not shooty enough to deal with them, and as soon as they get a target on those purgation squads, then I'm essentially flapping my wings to stay airborne. This lists idea (while bland), is to stay on points, and be unshiftable, reinforcing with the beatsticks. So the fact that I have interceptors with that trick, the first into the fray option gives me some much needed versatility. Without this, the list would be much weaker than what we can do with the current things we have. Regarding combi-weapons - WYSIWYG, don't have that.

 

2.2 Hammers. I've been through this earlier, but if you can swap them for halberds/warding staves, those 60 points will go a long way in making your list more efficient.

 

Check the list again, none of my PA units have TH.

 

2.3 The Second Dreadnought. 2 extra Lascannon shots hitting on 2s, a second option for Wisdom of the Ancients, and that extra Gate you were worried about not having. Plus, the Ven Dreads can pack a punch in combat, I feel two is a sweet spot. If you got him, I'd definitely consider him. 

 

See my previous argument regarding the Double Terror list and why I can't include the Dreadnought.

 

2.4 10 Interceptors. While it might not seem like a huge difference at first glance, those 3 additional Interceptors go a long way. As I was saying in the Interceptor thread, every bolter you lose hurts, and you're already starting out with 12 less shots. Every extra body you lose is another 4 - the damage output you're getting from them will go down fast, as well as what you're getting out of those CP spent on Psybolt. Less bodies also means less ability to contest/steal objectives.

 

I'm seeing the argument, and at first, I did try to squeeze them in, but 7 is the maximum I can fit in, unless I sacrifice Voldus for a librarian for another body. Not convinced it's worth it, but I certainly can't fit 10 in, especially when I'm proxing 1-2 interceptors as justicars for strikes.

 

2.5 Just a word on the Strike Squad. Personally, I don't feel great about taking a unit that you know in advance is "dead weight". They fill out the battalion, which allows you to get the second dread, and in a Patrol those 100 points wouldn't really be able to be spent to effect. This being said, I find they can fill a better role than just sitting in your backfield waiting to get shot. Try placing them in Deep Strike, with Vortex, and using them as a mortal wound threat and something to keep your opponent thinking about his backfield, screening and movement. Anything that forces your opponent to make a choice is good. They can be used to score an extra point on Engage, Linebreaker or grab a forgotten/abandoned objective in later Turns, or just add the extra storm bolter shots you need to clear an objective. They might not have 2 Wounds, but they have their uses! 100 points for 2, or maybe even 5/10 VP is a fair trade in my books.

 

Acknowledged. They are there just to be on the backfield, then gating to the opponent's side of the board when the heat gets too much for them. The idea for them is to get linebreaker as well.

 

3. As for secondaries, I think you've got the right idea about Linebreaker or Engage - go with the one favored by the deployment type. As mentioned in the Secondaries thread, secondaries are best chosen in regards to what you're facing, but I'd steer clear of any that demand an action, unless it is a psychic action, in which case sacrificing a Smite or lesser power for 3 VP is a good trade. 

 

Those a pretty much my thoughts. Again, I understand making do with what you've got, but we can always explore theory, right? Plus, tournaments a great deal of fun without bringing the most optimised list, and I think yours could do well mid-tier, and take a good shot against top-tier lists, even if you don't score a victory. I doubt you'll get slammed against anything, which is a good starting point. 

 

For sure my dude, just this isn't really the time to do so, if I was smart enough to post this a week before (curse exams), then I would have explored everything. But that doesn't mean we can't explore this in PM's - I got another two lists that should work out just fine, that we can analyse and theorise to our heart's content.

 

In blue.

 

Double Terror list:

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [108 PL, 12CP, 1,999pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) 

 

Detachment CP

 

+ HQ +

 

Chaplain [6 PL, 113pts]: 5. Recitation of Projection, 6. Invocation of Focus, Hammerhand, Storm Bolter

 

Librarian [6 PL, 111pts]: 6: Lore Master, Armoured Resilience, Empyrean Domination, Sanctic Shard, Warlord, Warp Shaping

. Nemesis Warding Stave

. Storm Bolter: Storm Bolter

 

Lord Kaldor Draigo [10 PL, 190pts]: Armoured Resilience, Warp Shaping

 

+ Troops +

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 115pts]

. 4x Grey Knight (Sword): 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter

. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

 

Terminator Squad [22 PL, 414pts]: Sanctuary

. Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

. Terminator (Daemon Hammer): Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter

. 4x Terminator (Halberd): 4x Nemesis Force Halberd, 4x Storm Bolter

. Terminator (Psilencer): Psilencer (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. Terminator (Psilencer): Psilencer (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. 2x Terminator (Warding Stave): 2x Nemesis Warding Stave, 2x Storm Bolter

 

Terminator Squad [22 PL, 414pts]: Sanctuary

. Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

. Terminator (Daemon Hammer): Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter

. 4x Terminator (Halberd): 4x Nemesis Force Halberd, 4x Storm Bolter

. Terminator (Psilencer): Psilencer (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. Terminator (Psilencer): Psilencer (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. 2x Terminator (Warding Stave): 2x Nemesis Warding Stave, 2x Storm Bolter

 

+ Elites +

 

Apothecary [5 PL, 80pts]: Gate of Infinity

. Nemesis Force Halberd

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 158pts]: Astral Aim, Twin lascannon

. Dreadnought Combat Weapon

. . Stom Bolter: Storm Bolter

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 158pts]: Astral Aim, Twin lascannon

. Dreadnought Combat Weapon

. . Stom Bolter: Storm Bolter

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Purgation Squad [7 PL, 123pts]: Vortex of Doom

. 4x Purgator (Psilencer): 4x Psilencer

. Purgator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

 

Purgation Squad [7 PL, 123pts]: Vortex of Doom

. 4x Purgator (Psilencer): 4x Psilencer

. Purgator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

 

++ Total: [108 PL, 12CP, 1,999pts] ++

 

Yes, I know this list has TH in it for units that won't use it, didn't get around to updating this list with some of your recommendations.

 

EDIT: I changed the list a bit (yes, it's 2pts over, but for some odd reason the librarian stormbolter is 6pts rather than 3, so the list is technically legal), what do you think? Still trying to balance powers around, by adding another Gate/Armored Resilence/Ethereal Manipulation cast. 

 

EDIT 2: I realised how useful Ethereal manipulation is for my chaplain camping my purgation squads, disregard what I wrote previously about it, you were absolutely right!

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [115 PL, 12CP, 2,002pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) 

 

Detachment CP

 

+ HQ +

 

Chaplain [6 PL, 113pts]: 5. Recitation of Projection, 6. Invocation of Focus, Ethereal Domination, Storm Bolter

 

Librarian [6 PL, 111pts]: Empyrean Domination, Warp Shaping

. Nemesis Warding Stave

. Storm Bolter: Storm Bolter

 

Lord Kaldor Draigo [10 PL, 190pts]: Armoured Resilience, Warp Shaping

 

+ Troops +

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 100pts]: Gate of Infinity

. 4x Grey Knight (Sword): 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter

. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Sword

 

Terminator Squad [22 PL, 424pts]: Sanctuary

. Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

. Terminator (Daemon Hammer): Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter

. 4x Terminator (Halberd): 4x Nemesis Force Halberd, 4x Storm Bolter

. Terminator (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. Terminator (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. 2x Terminator (Warding Stave): 2x Nemesis Warding Stave, 2x Storm Bolter

 

Terminator Squad [22 PL, 424pts]: Sanctuary

. Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

. Terminator (Daemon Hammer): Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter

. 4x Terminator (Halberd): 4x Nemesis Force Halberd, 4x Storm Bolter

. Terminator (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. Terminator (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. 2x Terminator (Warding Stave): 2x Nemesis Warding Stave, 2x Storm Bolter

 

+ Elites +

 

Paladin Ancient [6 PL, 105pts]: 4: First to the Fray, Augurium Scrolls, Hammerhand, Warlord

. Storm Bolter and Falchion: Nemesis Falchion, Storm Bolter

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 158pts]: Gate of Infinity, Twin lascannon

. Dreadnought Combat Weapon

. . Stom Bolter: Storm Bolter

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Interceptor Squad [14 PL, 161pts]: Vortex of Doom

. 6x Interceptor (Sword): 6x Nemesis Force Sword, 6x Storm Bolter

. Interceptor Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Sword

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Purgation Squad [7 PL, 108pts]: Astral Aim

. 4x Purgator (Psilencer): 4x Psilencer

. Purgator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Sword

 

Purgation Squad [7 PL, 108pts]: Astral Aim

. 4x Purgator (Psilencer): 4x Psilencer

. Purgator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Sword

 

++ Total: [115 PL, 12CP, 2,002pts] ++

Edited November 4, 2020 by Skywrath

[The Woodsman]

 

 

 

The cuirass will be changed for Augurium scrolls, I wasn't aware we had such a good relic, thanks for pointing that out! With Warp Shaping over Ethereal Manipulation, I don't find I need the latter, and it is handy to have two instances of Warp Shaping in case I need to use either the melee tide or the smite tide. Melee tide because the terminator blob with the BC/Ancient will come out roaring, and the smite tide to maybe finish off some pesky bladeguard or something I need killed. You are right, getting stuck in convergence isn't a problem, but it's nice to have said option. However what about my power placement of the Paladin Ancient with regards to Edict/Hammerhand? Heavy fire support is a problem, I admit, however I fail to see how you came out to the problem of melee heavy hitters? I got a BC with a TH, Voldus, Ancient, a Dreadnought with a claw. In fact, I have a lot of them. I can't squeeze a second dreadnought in, because mine is built as a doomglaive, and I can't proxy it's psycannon as a lascannon, otherwise I would have.

 

 

(Yay, colours) In regards to the melee tide, I think you're mostly always going to get more out of it in a turn with Convergence or Escalation, but that's just me. Granted, re-rolling 1s to wound can be nice. The idea being that the character you do have Warp Shaping on shouldn't be a priority target. Not that I disagree with doubling up on it when you can, but in this instance you're a little squeezed for Dominus powers, and in my opinion Ethereal Manipulation will serve you better than a second WS. I think you've come to this conclusion yourself though, towards the end of your response. What I meant by melee heavies is units that have the inherent S to hurt Knights and heavy vehicles on 3s. Dreadnought is one, absolutely. My point was that your ability to wound vehicles on better than a 4+ is low, which isn't necessarily a problem, but could be against certain lists. Your local meta might be Marine-focused, but you could always come up against an armored wall of Leman Russes (IDK your meta, just an example). Knights have definitely fallen out of favor, but the way I hear it, Greater Daemons of all varieties are kicking about these days (yes, you'll get D4 Smites if they're unscreened, but you get my point). The TEQ Hammer dudes will smash other characters, 100%, but can they really take out something big and scary by themselves? Fair enough for the Dreadnought! 

 

 

I have that list already, check my other thread, it's called Double Terror. I'll provide a link to it later here. It just gets rid of the interceptors for another dreadnought and with Kaldor/Voldus. Not to sound arrogant, but the Double Terror list I have, is stronger than the one you proposed. It's a good list, just needs a few things to make it spicy. Then there is the fact that I'm expecting to fight a lot of marines, and not a lot of vehicles. I do concede to your point that I don't have a lot of lascannons/plasma weapons to delete vehicles, but that's why I sorta negated this with psycannons. That being said, I plugged in those units into another list, and saved for future reference to tinker around with. This can be the basis for a pretty mobile list. With regards to my units and WYSIWYG, you'd notice that most of the ones have TH on them, however this list the PA units don't have them. That's because I can use a Strike Squad member (so I have 2 strikes squads with psycannons, 2 with hammers, rest with swords, 2 purgation and interceptor squads with justicars having a hammer) as a proxy for the sergeant for another squad. My list is built around that unit avaliability, so I can't do what you suggested, however I think I might pick up yet another box later on. So just to clarify, in the unit of 10 strikes, I can use 5 of them, as "justicars" for another squad. That being said, I don't have enough strike units to proxy all of them, so I'm going to use one of my interceptors as a justicar for a squad. Does that make sense?

 

 

I hear what you're saying about models. But to be fair you can use any strike marine as a Justicar, they're equipped identically, you just need to be clear about who is who. From what I understand you only have the 10, of which a couple have heavy weapons and another hammers? But yes, I remember the Double Terror. Not sure about stronger (and don't worry, no arrogance detected), I find the Interceptors to be a huge plus, as stated on multiple occasions, I really rate their versatility and mobility. And, if you are facing a lot of Marines, then those S6, -1 D2 Storm Bolters are murder, especially since you can get them against whatever target you need. They'll even do a number against Gravis Marines.

 

 

He'd have Sanctic, I don't find the Artisan is either better or worse than the alternative. Voldus is there as a secondary beatstick if my BC dies, so he would be next to maybe that 5m strike squads to take care of some problems in melee. I think the opposite regarding First into the Fray. That 10m terminator blob is pretty scary, especially if you get linebreaker, re-roll to charge with the BC. Now, that being said in my previous game against an Ork player, I had 4 units that could charge/re-roll charges, and ALL of them failed (including the re-roll to charge). Had that exact same thing happen in the tournament, that cost me the game (previous one, not this one), so I'm definitely hearing you regards this. However, if I don't have the BC with that trait and the terminators, I don't have a way to answer melee threats like Space Wolves/Blood Angels. My current list is not shooty enough to deal with them, and as soon as they get a target on those purgation squads, then I'm essentially flapping my wings to stay airborne. This lists idea (while bland), is to stay on points, and be unshiftable, reinforcing with the beatsticks. So the fact that I have interceptors with that trick, the first into the fray option gives me some much needed versatility. Without this, the list would be much weaker than what we can do with the current things we have. Regarding combi-weapons - WYSIWYG, don't have that.

 

 

Sanctic Shard is better for the caster himself, while Artisan Matrix is better if you're looking to buff units around you. I think it comes down to preference. But, Artisan can save you from a fair ammount of Perils, something to keep in mind. In regards to your experience with FttF, I've been through the same thing so many times, I just feel its a little wasted. Like I said, Lore Master is a given bonus, while First is always gonna be unsure. I feel the command re-roll is sufficient, but if you are sticking with Voldus, then you may as well stick to First to the Fray. Fair enough about combi-weapons, its spare points that won't make an immense difference. 

 

Check the list again, none of my PA units have TH. I know, but you have a few on terminators, which have the same WS.

 

 

See my previous argument regarding the Double Terror list and why I can't include the Dreadnought. Fair!

 

 

I'm seeing the argument, and at first, I did try to squeeze them in, but 7 is the maximum I can fit in, unless I sacrifice Voldus for a librarian for another body. Not convinced it's worth it, but I certainly can't fit 10 in, especially when I'm proxing 1-2 interceptors as justicars for strikes. 

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but I really think you should be trying to get the 10-man in, they will do wonders, especially in a world where 2W and T5 Marines exist, and where hordes seem to be prevalent. 

 

Acknowledged. They are there just to be on the backfield, then gating to the opponent's side of the board when the heat gets too much for them. The idea for them is to get linebreaker as well.

 

 

 

For sure my dude, just this isn't really the time to do so, if I was smart enough to post this a week before (curse exams), then I would have explored everything. But that doesn't mean we can't explore this in PM's - I got another two lists that should work out just fine, that we can analyse and theorise to our heart's content.

 

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [115 PL, 12CP, 2,002pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) 

 

Detachment CP

 

+ HQ +

 

Chaplain [6 PL, 113pts]: 5. Recitation of Projection, 6. Invocation of Focus, Ethereal Domination, Storm Bolter

 

Librarian [6 PL, 111pts]: Empyrean Domination, Warp Shaping

. Nemesis Warding Stave

. Storm Bolter: Storm Bolter

 

Lord Kaldor Draigo [10 PL, 190pts]: Armoured Resilience, Warp Shaping

 

+ Troops +

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 100pts]: Gate of Infinity

. 4x Grey Knight (Sword): 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter

. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Sword

 

Terminator Squad [22 PL, 424pts]: Sanctuary

. Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

. Terminator (Daemon Hammer): Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter

. 4x Terminator (Halberd): 4x Nemesis Force Halberd, 4x Storm Bolter

. Terminator (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. Terminator (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. 2x Terminator (Warding Stave): 2x Nemesis Warding Stave, 2x Storm Bolter

 

Terminator Squad [22 PL, 424pts]: Sanctuary

. Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

. Terminator (Daemon Hammer): Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter

. 4x Terminator (Halberd): 4x Nemesis Force Halberd, 4x Storm Bolter

. Terminator (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. Terminator (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. 2x Terminator (Warding Stave): 2x Nemesis Warding Stave, 2x Storm Bolter

 

+ Elites +

 

Paladin Ancient [6 PL, 105pts]: 4: First to the Fray, Augurium Scrolls, Hammerhand, Warlord

. Storm Bolter and Falchion: Nemesis Falchion, Storm Bolter

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 158pts]: Gate of Infinity, Twin lascannon

. Dreadnought Combat Weapon

. . Stom Bolter: Storm Bolter

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Interceptor Squad [14 PL, 161pts]: Vortex of Doom

. 6x Interceptor (Sword): 6x Nemesis Force Sword, 6x Storm Bolter

. Interceptor Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Sword

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Purgation Squad [7 PL, 108pts]: Astral Aim

. 4x Purgator (Psilencer): 4x Psilencer

. Purgator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Sword

 

Purgation Squad [7 PL, 108pts]: Astral Aim

. 4x Purgator (Psilencer): 4x Psilencer

. Purgator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Sword

 

++ Total: [115 PL, 12CP, 2,002pts] ++

 

I think I prefer this one, if only for the Interceptors. Could you remove Drago, add in the missing Interceptors and a 3rd unit of Purgators? That starts to add up a lot of multi-damage, high rate of fire guns. Don't know if its possible for you, but since you're only running the single Ven Dread, could you give him the missile launcher? It would help him do his fire support job, especially if he's just kicking back, shooting around corners and providing re-rolls to Purgators. The duality is nice though, smashing things up with a Dreadnought is awesome. 

 

Just to clarify, its not that I don't think Drago is worth it, I really do, I tend to run him most games. I just think in this list, you're better served cutting down on characters and getting more out of your units. Drago does offer a lot with his re-rolls, two powers and combat potential. 

 

[Skywrath]

I'll have a response later today.

[Icosiel]

I'm having trouble seeing what role the psilencer Purgation Squads will play in this list. In my experience, their limited range makes it so that they have very few viable targets, and your opponent can move their units easily to avoid them. Sure, it's a lot of shots, but the Heavy penalty is going to make it so that they don't do a whole lot more than just a squad full of storm bolters. Frankly they seem like they might just be a CP sink. On top of that, it's a ton of points to commit to 1 wound models, and it will be terribly demoralizing when one salvo of bolt rifles tears them all down. Maybe switch them out for some more anti-armor? Another Dreadnought, or maybe a Dreadknight?

 

Other than that, I think this list looks really solid. I'm always skeptical of running PAGK because of their fragility, but I think you've got some power here.

[Reskin]

Have you played the tournament yet Skywrath? Be keen to hear how you went if so.

 

I don't want to write my thoughts if you've already played.

[Skywrath]

Unfortunately, on the day of the tournament, I came down with a case of food poisoning ;/ So no tournament, but there is another one in December happening, so yeah.. I got a few new lists I cooked up, but they need a bit more tinkering and a lot more experience before I can even post them here.

 

Sorry about the late response - wasn't keeping tabs on this forum.

[Skywrath]

EDIT: On second thoughts, I haven't really tested this list, but here's the update on it.

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [115 PL, 12CP, 1,998pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) 

 

Detachment CP

 

+ HQ +

 

Chaplain [6 PL, 113pts]: 5. Recitation of Projection, 6. Invocation of Focus, Ethereal Manipulation, Storm Bolter

 

Librarian [6 PL, 111pts]: Empyrean Domination, Warp Shaping

. Nemesis Warding Stave

. Storm Bolter: Storm Bolter

 

Lord Kaldor Draigo [10 PL, 190pts]: Armoured Resilience, Edict Imperator

 

+ Troops +

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 100pts]: Gate of Infinity

. 4x Grey Knight (Sword): 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter

. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 100pts]: Gate of Infinity

. 4x Grey Knight (Sword): 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter

. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 100pts]: Vortex of Doom

. 4x Grey Knight (Sword): 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter

. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

 

+ Elites +

 

Paladin Ancient [6 PL, 105pts]: 4: First to the Fray, Armoured Resilience, Augurium Scrolls, Warlord

. Storm Bolter and Falchion: Nemesis Falchion, Storm Bolter

 

Paladin Squad [30 PL, 558pts]: Sanctuary

. Paladin (Daemon Hammer): Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter

. 2x Paladin (Halberd): 2x Nemesis Force Halberd, 2x Storm Bolter

. Paladin (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. Paladin (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. Paladin (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. Paladin (Psycannon): Psycannon (Terminator)

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

. 2x Paladin (Warding Stave): 2x Nemesis Warding Stave, 2x Storm Bolter

. Paragon: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Interceptor Squad [7 PL, 115pts]: Vortex of Doom

. 4x Interceptor (Sword): 4x Nemesis Force Sword, 4x Storm Bolter

. Interceptor Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Land Raider [15 PL, 290pts]: Hunter-killer Missile, Twin Heavy Bolter, 2x Twin Lascannon

 

Purgation Squad [7 PL, 108pts]: Astral Aim

. 4x Purgator (Psilencer): 4x Psilencer

. Purgator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

 

Purgation Squad [7 PL, 108pts]: Astral Aim

. 4x Purgator (Psilencer): 4x Psilencer

. Purgator Justicar: Storm Bolter

. . Nemesis Force Halberd

 

++ Total: [115 PL, 12CP, 1,998pts] ++

 

Was running a variation of this one against a vehicle heavy Deathguard list (battle report soon), absolutely wiped the floor with him. Thoughts and considerations include: Replacing the Interceptors with a Venerable Dreadnought for the MM, or an Apothecary to heal the paladin Deathstar. I put the interceptors in there for the quick marker grab, and the Edict Imperator combo someone mentioned.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Skywrath

[Reskin]

I know you're a man of efficiency so I will only suggest minor points improvements and then you can do what you want with those improvements.

 

Starting with you HQ's, I assume Draigo with armoured resilience is chillin' with the paladins, for 30pts less you can replace him with Voldus, practically the same damage output from an individual perspective. But Voldus has that 3 psychic power. Sure you lost out on FULL rerolls for the paladins, but hitting on 3's or 2's with Fury of the proven stratagem for 1CP re rolling 1's.

 

So net gain of 30pts and 1 psychic power.

 

If you ever want to use bring them down to reroll against vehicles its best to shoot with a character, that way you ain't wasting a whole unit worth of guns. So use either HQ to do so, but drop the 6pt stormbolter from the Librarian, he's the only character in our codex able to " optionally" take the stormbolter or not.

 

Net gain of 6pts.

 

The 5 interceptors don't have a special ranged weapon, nor do the strikes. And I know your lists are predicated on using tide of convergence. Nor do they have halberds. the justicar is the only one equipped. Mistake?

 

Drop the hunterkiller missile. The LR is already expansive enough as is.

What's that? 5pts?

 

And I also noticed you weren't 2000pts on the nose. So 2pts extra to spare.

 

So in total a net gain 43 pts of fat trimmed off to do with what you will. Perhaps you can now afford special ranged weapons on the interceptors and strikes to add to your tide of convergence. Or some extra bodies.

 

Or with those points, your libby can take a combi melta for some extra Anti armour punch.

[Gnomeo]

Looks like eggs in a basket list to me. Also a heavy focus on melee with warlord trait and relic. The list looks like it just wants to sit in convergence the whole time. As a result I feel it lack the flexibility that GK's can have.

Personally I do not like chaplain's as I don't find them reliable enough. (Played a game without a single litany for 5 turns never again)

If you are trying to do my interceptor trick I recommend a ten man unit you can always combat squad during the game.

[Skywrath]

Looks like eggs in a basket list to me. Also a heavy focus on melee with warlord trait and relic. The list looks like it just wants to sit in convergence the whole time. As a result I feel it lack the flexibility that GK's can have.

Personally I do not like chaplain's as I don't find them reliable enough. (Played a game without a single litany for 5 turns never again)

If you are trying to do my interceptor trick I recommend a ten man unit you can always combat squad during the game.

 

Would I be correct in perceiving that you find such lists one-dimensional? Just the tone of tone seems to imply to me: "Oh great, not another one of those lists". In terms of flexibility, perhaps so, however in the areas that it is designed to be good at, it excels in, such as in melee, as you pointed out. 

 

With regards to chaplains, if that's your experience, I won't question it, however my experiences have been the opposite. The 10m interceptor idea still is in play, I'd probably have to drop Draigo for a BC (or if points permit, Voldus). Maybe then remove the librarian and put a Brotherhood Champion in with the relic blade. However, I am a tad confused in what you mean in eggs in a basket list? 

 

Secondly, would you be so kind as to check your Private Messages?

Edited November 17, 2020 by Skywrath

[Reskin]

I think he means, all your squads are 5 man msu. With the one glaring paladin bomb. Its hard to avoid the gate and first to the fray. That will more then likely be gating and charging something, and the I assume it functions both as a killy deathstar but also it soaks fire from your power armoured units capping objectives.

 

It's always going to be Priority target no.1, what's the American slang for when the country is in danger? DEFCON 5? the enemy will more then likely, screen it, kite it and shoot the crap out of it. And in 2000pts, they can bring a lot more guns to bare.

 

As for the chaplain Gnomeo, GW are moving away from guaranteed buffs and things like that. There has to be some level of failure. Just think of the litany as a psychic test, albeit an easier one to make. It's extremely unfortunate you failed 5 times, that's a statistical anomaly.

 

He needs the chaplain for his guns to work, and the chaplain does have great litanies to really play to whatever strategy you are going for.

[Gnomeo]

 

 

Looks like eggs in a basket list to me. Also a heavy focus on melee with warlord trait and relic. The list looks like it just wants to sit in convergence the whole time. As a result I feel it lack the flexibility that GK's can have.

Personally I do not like chaplain's as I don't find them reliable enough. (Played a game without a single litany for 5 turns never again)

If you are trying to do my interceptor trick I recommend a ten man unit you can always combat squad during the game.

Would I be correct in perceiving that you find such lists one-dimensional? Just the tone of tone seems to imply to me: "Oh great, not another one of those lists". In terms of flexibility, perhaps so, however in the areas that it is designed to be good at, it excels in, such as in melee, as you pointed out.

 

With regards to chaplains, if that's your experience, I won't question it, however my experiences have been the opposite. The 10m interceptor idea still is in play, I'd probably have to drop Draigo for a BC (or if points permit, Voldus). Maybe then remove the librarian and put a Brotherhood Champion in with the relic blade. However, I am a tad confused in what you mean in eggs in a basket list?

 

Secondly, would you be so kind as to check your Private Messages?

[Gnomeo]

Whoops! Me and the quote function do not get along. My apologies if it came across that way it was not my intention.

I actually find lists that do have a particular purpose have there benefits the main one is that there is less likely to be any mistakes made as there are few aspects to juggle.

I actually like the list as it has good fire power and combat.

My main dislike of this however with grey knights, is the fact that every army is better than us at nearly every phase of the game. Space wolves/blood angels at close combat. Guard at shooting, deathguard/deathwing at survivability, etc. But what we do better than everyone else is being good in every phase with nearly every unit.

 

my main reasons for not liking heavily combat focused grey knights is although awesome potential. It lacks reliability. Which is why I stopped doing it myself even when we could do it turn 1. Now the reason I say lacks reliability is the probability a 9" charge with full reroll from 1st to the fray is around 50%.

 

Though if you were planning on having it as more reactionary the yeah defo go for it.

 

Lastly I am not sure about draigo yes full rerolls is great but where does he go? His best place is supporting the land raider and puragantion squads as paladins can get +1 to hit and also if they are at the front probably have etheral manipultaion. At which point he is a pricy baby sister.

 

Sorry if any of this comes across too strong not my intention half writing as my brain works and I may be way of the mark.