Wishlist for a supplement

[Brother Tyler]

Me too. But I think the lore will be added by BL after the supplement in different BL-releases

How would a Black Templars codex supplement not have expanded lore? If you look at the smaller codex supplements (e.g., Raven Guard, White Scars), there is a lot of lore that didn't exist before the codex supplement. Much of that was the result of expanding existing bits, but some of it was brand new. If we assume that the other rules such as warlord traits, relics, and stratagems are comparable with those other Chapters the only things that are going to reduce the room for lore are units/characters specific to the Black Templars and Crusade rules specific to the Black Templars. If the Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Deathwatch codex supplements are a basis for comparison, those will be the main elements that reduce room for lore. Even with those, however, there would be plenty of room for additional Black Templars lore in a smaller codex supplement. Sure, some of it would be recycled, but a lot would be expanded or new. And if the Black Templars codex supplement ends up being one of the larger ones, that's room for more lore or unique units/characters (each coming with their own lore).

 

As much as it would be nice to see lots of unique units and characters for Chapters, it seems to me that GW is steering away from that path. They're preserving those in the big 4 Chapters because they already have the models. For other Chapters, however, these will be limited. We might expect some characters, but unique units will be few and far between. The Crusader Squads are an obvious choice and a Primaris counterpart is probably the only thing we might hope for. I don't know if a Primaris Crusader Squad is certain, however, as the McGuffin of the Primaris progression allows for some things to be un/rewritten. For all we know, GW might decide to say that the initiate/neophyte training relationship with the Primaris takes place in garrison, but the two operate separately in actual operations. Alternately, they might say that all neophytes operate in the existing Crusader Squads (even those neophytes that might become Primaris). That would be highly unfortunate, but it would save GW the hassle (?) of having to create a new Primaris Crusader Squad box.

 

A lot of effort will, I think, be devoted to showing how existing standard Adeptus Astartes units fit within the unique construct of the Black Templars. The Bladeguard Veterans, for example, will be shown as a subset of the Sword Brethren. Similarly, they'll explain how the Black Templars call their Captains "Marshals," their Lieutenants "Castellans," etc.

 

When you look at it, the Black Templars already have more unique characters than most of the non-Big 4 Chapters. As much as I would love to see a bunch of Black Templars characters, I'm not sure that GW has the appetite for that. With (Primaris?) Helbrecht, Grimaldus and his cenobyte servitors, and the Emperor's Champion, getting more characters might be a lot to ask, even if they are all obvious to us (for example, I'm all for a Primaris Emperor's Champion, a Marshal, and a Castellan at a minimum).

 

I'm definitely on board the lore train. As long as the rules put the Black Templars on par with other Chapters I want to see lots and lots of lore. I'd like to see snapshots in time - periods when the Black Templars numbered fewer than 1,000 battle brothers and [hopefully much more numerous] times when the Black Templars exceeded that number. More importantly, I'd like to see examples of Black Templars Crusades through the years and their leaders and badges. The period during (and immediately after) which Sigismund led the Chapter is also something I hadn't considered previously. We haven't been given a lot of lore for the other Chapters in comparable periods, however, so I'm not sure we'll be seeing that for the Black Templars. While they'll touch on the earlier history of the Chapter, I think that GW will follow the pattern of focusing on more recent history, especially that during the Era Indomitus. The important thing to me is giving hobbyists a lot of inspiration. While many will collect an historical force of Black Templars, many others just want inspiration for their own unique Black Templars Crusade/Fighting Company.

[Medjugorje]

I can imagine that we will get a form of Primaris crusader squad. 

 

But the lore is maybe a bit in the supplements but the things we all want to know are so much.... that it can only handled up in a book - and it could be that we will have a Codex Armegeddon with just a small part in the book - just rules and lore from that conflict instead of real chapter specific lore

[Jayrich131]

Man, I remember these forums back in 4th or 5th or whatever were pumping constant BT. Came back to the game recently after almost a decade off to find BT in a pretty good place rule-wise. From the games I have played though I gotta say we aren't that bad, also aren't that great.

 

IF we get a full supplement, not just a new errata or something in a warzone book, I really could care less for Primaris characters or primaris anything. I think we are awesome as the last bastion of firstborn strength. I know people been saying for a while now Primaris Helbrecht almost guaranteed, primaris EC seems like almost a must-do logic/lore-wise. Really I would be 10x happier to keep our 3 IC as are and just bring sword brethren back, don't even need to be primaris just give them back to us please. Why did they ever get removed in the first place? How hard would it have been to keep 1 data sheet for our unique unit. As for crusader squad I would like to see a unique ability that makes them valuable on the field, maybe primaris initiates with armoured/improved Neophytes would be cool.

[Medjugorje]

I would say we are very good. 

Just AdMech, Sisters of Battle, Dark Angels just a tiny bit, Drukhari and Harlekins are better then us.

White Scars, Chaos Daemons (just Slaanesh), Space Wolves and Death Guard are equal to us. The whole rest is not close to us.

[Sarvis]

Many people here including myself don’t play the game, and are here for the models.

[MarshalMittermeier]

Man, I remember these forums back in 4th or 5th or whatever were pumping constant BT. Came back to the game recently after almost a decade off to find BT in a pretty good place rule-wise. From the games I have played though I gotta say we aren't that bad, also aren't that great.

 

IF we get a full supplement, not just a new errata or something in a warzone book, I really could care less for Primaris characters or primaris anything. I think we are awesome as the last bastion of firstborn strength. I know people been saying for a while now Primaris Helbrecht almost guaranteed, primaris EC seems like almost a must-do logic/lore-wise. Really I would be 10x happier to keep our 3 IC as are and just bring sword brethren back, don't even need to be primaris just give them back to us please. Why did they ever get removed in the first place? How hard would it have been to keep 1 data sheet for our unique unit. As for crusader squad I would like to see a unique ability that makes them valuable on the field, maybe primaris initiates with armoured/improved Neophytes would be cool.

 

why i want primaris EC etc.?

 

basicaly... i just think firstborn kits are HORRIBLE.

 

buy a tactical box. maybe the special weapon needs to be a plasmagun.

OR next edition it is all vehicle spam and you need meltagun.

the sergeant ccw? it is useless. OR next codex it gets buffed. second weapon? should be a boltgun.

OR next edition pistols give +1 attack to the main ccw, and you need a pistol.

OR next codex combiweapons get buffed.

missile launcher. awesome heavy weapon. OR next edition MM get two attacks. and grav weapons also buffed.

 

buy vanguards. one edition, they cant even legaly take storm shields. next edition, they need X configuration. next edition, Y configuration.

 

 

so due to the multiple options, if you want to play competitively, in every edition you need to re-buy the same model kits.

i have bought devastators-or i haven't, because grav weapons weren't a MUST on them when i built them. i cannot use them now, they are not optimal.

i have bought vanguards-or i haven't, because storm shields weren't a thing when i built them, and now they are worthless without storm shields.

 

 

with primaris, you just buy infiltrators. no weapon loadout differences. you just buy assault intercessors. no weird heavy/special weapons. bladeguard have some pistol options, but no options for "swap pistol with variant ccw, one edition it is great next edition re-buy the model".

 

there is no way in h*ll i ever play a game and not focus on tournaments. when i buy a model, i want to be able to use that model. with firstborn, there is no such guarantee. you buy vanguard vets, you have no idea if in 1 month some FAQ will buff some pistol/2nd ccw, and nerf stormshields to like 10 pts/model, forcing you to shelf the whole squad and buy from scratch. primaris are just so much more friendly for a competitive player that wants to buy models and use them.

 

i played from 3rd edition. i have 100-ish space marine firstborn models and 15 vehicles. NOT EVEN 30% is usable. if i wanted to play 30 vanguard vets from 7th to 9th edition, i'd need to buy 60-90 vanguard veteran models. i prefer to just spend money and go primaris where there are less headaches. sure, bladeguards are worse than vanguard vets. but next edition, their configuration will still be legal and CLOSE to optimal, maybe some pistol differences but i wont be forced to swap to boltguns or dual power weapons or something.

Edited May 19, 2021 by MarshalMittermeier

[Jayrich131]

I mean, I guess the primaris firstborn kit preference is just an opinion thing. Personally I love the look of the firstborn models and the variety of ways to build them. Vanguard veterans are actually one of my favorit units and I have 2 Dev squads of Las and Grav varieties. Mostly just because they look awesome and are fun.

 

In regards to having too many variants I think it's the same in primaris, they just haven't had the time to flesh it out fully yet. I mean already there are constantly changing priorities, reivers, incursors, infiltrators, inceptors, eradicators, eliminators, intercessors, heavy intercessors, assault intercessors, suppressors... I'm sure I've missed a bunch but that's waaay too many seperate units that aren't all that different. My preference is the old way of 3-4 types and customisable wargear. You can have a terminator body or regular body and can then pick your Loadout to make them fit any purpose. Now you have to replace the whole unit if they fall out of meta.

 

Anyway, all of that is preference. No right or wrong opinion. Personally, I would love a whole list of new BT primaris units for extra things to collect, but I would be much happier just to be able to use sword brethren and crusaders again. If I had to pick I would take the latter.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Having adjusted to Primaris models for a few years... old marines just look wrong to me now. I still love the classic designs themselves, the mk6 and mk7 helmets etc, but the actual models of those designs are just too stunted. It really hit me when I saw a picture of a tactical marine with a plasma gun next to a hellblaster. It looked like father and son cosplaying together.

 

Hoping there's eventually some neo-tactical kit or ascended veterans kit or something that's got veterans sporting older helmets etc for flavor.

[excelite]

Well, for me personally it doesn‘t have to „primaris“ models, I‘m fine with new non resin, more detailed sculpts of old armor that are scaled correctly…

 

But I guess that’s pretty much what most people understand as primaris-fied?

[Medjugorje]

Primaris is exactly this. The story was just added after the sculpts. And even if the model you think of would be released ---> it would called Primaris.

[Jayrich131]

Yeah, I'm 99% confident that anything we get will be primaris. That's what we have seen since the Rubicon began and it wouldn't make sense for them to launch a new range of firstborn now. If we do see sword brethren I am sure they will be primaris version, same with crusader squads. Personally it scares me a bit though because the other primaris units haven't really been very unique in the same way that the sword brethren were unique from other firstborn units.

 

Also, the primaris Helbrecht scares me a bit. Has potential to be awesome but for me Helbrecht is still currently my favorite model in the game. I have 2 metal Helbrechts in different paint schemes. I honestly can't imagine any way to make him better except just scaling him to be primaris sized hahaha. I hope they prove me wrong and he just blows me away, would be really cool.

 

Also, I'm very attached to my metal models, I have around 1k points worth of metal BT, including a whole 20 man crusader squad of metal sword brethren (used as regular crusaders)/scouts and all the HQs, jump pack chaplain, terminators, our OOP captains etc. I will be a little bit sad not to be able to use them anymore because a primaris Helbrecht/EC/Grim obviously means we won't be able to use our metal.

 

That's why I said I would be happy to just get crusade squads and sword brethren back and not all the primaris stuff. I am happy with our metal character models.

[Marshal Reinhard]

It's not like thugs will break in to your house and smash your metal models to bits as soon as a new version comes out. You already own your metal minis, unless you were planning to get more such metals in the distant future, I don't see how you'd be affected much by availability of new models. BT needs to move into the future, and I för one cant wait.

[Jayrich131]

I don't think I ever said I don't want new minis. I'll be happy with anything/everything at this point. I'm just trying to say in a non-confrontational way that what would really make me happy would be to see crusade squads and sword brethren return in some shape or form. If they give us cool models then obviously that's good for those who want them. I for one am happy just to get some classic BT units on the table.

[Brat Igorus]

Hello, brothers. According to a rumor about the French, our proud Templars In September.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Brat Igorus

[Jayrich131]

Hello, brothers. According to a rumor about the French, our proud Templars In September.

Announcement or release in September do you know?

[Medjugorje]

do you have a bit more?

[Brother Tyler]

...what would really make me happy would be to see crusade squads and sword brethren return in some shape or form...

The Crusader Squad is in the codex supplement. I would be extremely surprised if a dedicated codex supplement book didnt include them (or anything else in the current digital codex supplement).

 

With regard to the Sword Brethren, however, things get a bit more iffy. The boxed set is still on the website, though it's currently marked as temporarily out of stock online (here in the U.S.). It would be great if they, too, are in the codex supplement, but their absence in the current digital codex supplement gives me pause to wonder. Another possibility is that GW will get rid of the kit and just say that all "veteran" units in a Black Templars army are called "Sword Brothers" in the way that Captains are called "Marshals" and Lieutenants are called "Castellans." I won't bet either way on this outcome.

 

What we've seen in the last two editions is that GW has been seeing to the needs/wants of hobbyists that prefer firstborn models by preserving the firstborn units for which there are kits, but they haven't been adding new ones. New units have generally been Primaris and I don't see a strong likelihood of GW deviating from that with the Black Templars.

[Jayrich131]

Yeah me either. They'll either upgrade sword brethren to primaris or do something like you said and just swap vanguard veterans to sword brethren for us. Would be a shame if they just left them as is where they are basically sergeants because that just doesn't sit well with me.

[Brat Igorus]

Sorry for my English,



Here is a twitch link from the person who spoke about our Templars.

Let me tell you about this people because his rumors have often turned out to be true.

 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1021177049

 

Look at the  3h38mn28s (He speak in French)

 

To translate quickly I ask him Helbrecht for September?

He answers me how you know with a smile and he goes back home I see lots of crusades everywhere playing the idiot with his glasses :)

 

I ask Black templars suplement? he say me "I don't now"

 

For the Emperor God brother !!!

[Marshal Reinhard]

To quote some other people from here in the past: 

 

"Templar players will be very happy."

 

Sounds like our french battle brothers have heard something similiar.

[The Spanish Inquisitor]

This french dude is a solid source, although he doesn't want to say everything he knows.

 

Now we have few month to finish the pile of shame before some crusadey good time

[Sword Brother Adelard]

 

With regard to the Sword Brethren, however, things get a bit more iffy. The boxed set is still on the website, though it's currently marked as temporarily out of stock online (here in the U.S.). It would be great if they, too, are in the codex supplement, but their absence in the current digital codex supplement gives me pause to wonder. Another possibility is that GW will get rid of the kit and just say that all "veteran" units in a Black Templars army are called "Sword Brothers" in the way that Captains are called "Marshals" and Lieutenants are called "Castellans." I won't bet either way on this outcome.

 

This is how we've had to play them for years? The models have to be used as either a unit Sword Brother/Sergeant or played as Company Veterans or jump-pack-less Vanguard Veterans.

 

In fact GW almost implied that they were Company Vets when they gave that unit the boost in the Vigilus Sword Brethren detachment, and not others.

 

I think what would be more likely, if they were to give us anything similar is that they could give us a specialist Bladeguard datasheet, similar to the Space Wolves Hounds of Morkai, where you get a Bladeguard box with a BT upgrade sprue. 

[Medjugorje]

This french dude is a solid source, although he doesn't want to say everything he knows.

 

Now we have few month to finish the pile of shame before some crusadey good time

I already started after I read this new rumor and i am painting now for models for hours.

If i can hold that speed I finished my pile of shame in this time (which is over 20k points)

 

 

 

 

 

 

With regard to the Sword Brethren, however, things get a bit more iffy. The boxed set is still on the website, though it's currently marked as temporarily out of stock online (here in the U.S.). It would be great if they, too, are in the codex supplement, but their absence in the current digital codex supplement gives me pause to wonder. Another possibility is that GW will get rid of the kit and just say that all "veteran" units in a Black Templars army are called "Sword Brothers" in the way that Captains are called "Marshals" and Lieutenants are called "Castellans." I won't bet either way on this outcome.

 

This is how we've had to play them for years? The models have to be used as either a unit Sword Brother/Sergeant or played as Company Veterans or jump-pack-less Vanguard Veterans.

 

In fact GW almost implied that they were Company Vets when they gave that unit the boost in the Vigilus Sword Brethren detachment, and not others.

 

I think what would be more likely, if they were to give us anything similar is that they could give us a specialist Bladeguard datasheet, similar to the Space Wolves Hounds of Morkai, where you get a Bladeguard box with a BT upgrade sprue. 

 

Our special thing used to be the crusader squad in last few years (although it always was a better tacitcal squad back in the days). The sword brethren used to be what now the Veteran Intercessors would be - so I dont think we get that. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Medjugorje

[Sete]

"think we are awesome as the last bastion of firstborn strength."

 

My dude, I have some bad news...

[Schlitzaf]

Rumors aside lets look at the facts:

Only Successor Chapter with Fully Fleshed out Rules

-Crimson and Flesh Tearers don’t even come close

We have maintained our Mini Line Up

We exist in Vigilus with our own rules

Indomitus Box

 

I mean they say hope is the path the damnation but let us look at the facts. GW might not showered love upon us like the other chapters but unlike other chapters we had fleshed out mini’s with an upgrade sprew, 3 characters, two unique units, and a box of cool mini whom exisy with psuedo datasheet rules due to Vigilus.

 

Maybe I am seeing something where there is nothing. But we aren’t ignored, we do exist, and maybe after over a decade we will finally get a reward for our faith