Forgeworld Discussion for Ultramarines

[Prot]

Hey guys, 

 

I was just going to make a thread about the Astraeus, but then I realized we could really use an Ultramarine thread for the whole new book (up for preorder as I ask this).

 

Being in Canada I've noted the deliveries and punishing taxes/duty seemed to be less severe right now. I don't know if that's true for other non UK countries but it has me wondering if I should use that to justify an Astraeus purchase.

 

What do you guys think? It allegedly went up in points, but there is some improvement as I understand it. I'm thinking if you upgrade Techmarine then you have the 3 wounds back per turn, and it's up to 30 wounds now I believe.

 

Would anyone consider it in  a list, or is the day of the super heavy still kind of dead in 9th? (interesting to note this is a rare unit with true void shields).

 

Of course the secondary consideration is the 3 CP. 

 

The price (actual cost) is huge but we had a few local guys use it in tournaments in 8th edition, and I don't think they could have won the whole thing, but it was fairly competitive last edition.

 

++++++++++++++

 

Also the beloved Leviathan got considerable changes, and although most are negative, it does go down in points considerably as well. 

 

 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m tempted to get one due to the new buffs. Is a lot of work though.

[Prot]

Yea that’s a good point. I’ve heard it’s a monster of a kit.  

[emperorpants]

I'm excited, as I already have one. Is it a super competitive choice now? Probably not imo, but it's certainly not bad. At all. It's going to be fun to use for sure, and it's going to wreck some face.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Yeah it will be fun for some one off games.

[CCE1981]

I want a Sokar, only 1,000 pts. Probably never getting one though.

[Subtleknife]

I still think the void shield rules are a bit wonky. I definately think I would plonk tigurius next to it for the pretty much guaranteed 5++.

[Prot]

I still think the void shield rules are a bit wonky. I definately think I would plonk tigurius next to it for the pretty much guaranteed 5++.

 

I think what's great about the void's is they need to actually kill one or they grow back (1 wound per turn) so my feeling is that 'plinking' away at them is not a good idea. Lately I've put out the nerfed Repulsor Executioners and I have lost them in single volleys from some of the nasty stuff out there. Now if I had a void shield, they have to figure out the best way of getting through that before annihilating this 30 wound construct. 

 

Conversely if they hit hard with lets say a super melta shot, then what? Or a lascannon shot? Then the void shield absorbs it all, regardless of how many wounds, and there is not spill over on to the other Void Shield. This is meaningful to me (if I understand it correctly). This is a pretty decent way of assisting you in keeping it alive 1-2 turns even against the most nasty of anti-vehicle. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

As you noted repulsors can get wiped one turn quite easy now and taking two is not really a viable solution. For the cost of two the Atreus looks viable and attractive to me.

[Prot]

I took 2 Repulsor Executioners and yes, it was horrible. My last game.... terrible units now imo. But I had to try it. The ability to focus one down by some nasty anti-tank stuff out there now is just too easy. I think the Void shields -might- make a difference on a 30 wound unit. Tough to say. I hope someone tries it out with the new rules. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The new Necron heavy destroyers can just hose down a Repulsor one turn easy.

[Captain Idaho]

I don't know about the Astraeus so can't comment or assist, atl east not until after it hits Battlescribe.

 

As for FW Ultramarines threads, it looks like Grav Flux Bombard Cannons are still good on a Leviathan now. Which us cheaper now.

 

I think Leviathans with a single Siege Claw etc can be really potent, since they don't lose anything anymore. Marching up the table with out infantry will be harder to counter, thanks to Obscuring Terrain.

[Prot]

I hate the CP cost. It feels wrong as opposed to just using the old relic limitation.  
 

I just bought a forge world Leviathan about a month ago, but no arms as I was told things were changing. I heard there’s a better option for the mounted flamers as well.  Would you say Grav Flux is the best choice for the Leviathan in general or just fir an aggressive build with the claw arm?

[CCE1981]

I bought mine with a variety of arms and magnetized. Keeps him alive for when rules and meta changes.

 

Personally I’m thinking Storm Cannon and Claw. Nothing will want to be near him in CC no matter what at that point.

[Prot]

I'm still on the fence about the Astraeus. I think it's rare though to see a Super Heavy that actually can perform okay now. 

[Ishagu]

Somehow I didn't see this topic, apologies.

 

Here's what I said about the Sicaran Venator in the other topic I made:

 

 

A fast tank that now has a 2+ save, and comes in at 225 points with all relevant upgrades.

 

For us in particular it can't be locked into combat, but importantly counts as standing still during the Tactical Doctrine. The main gun is Heavy 3, Str 12, AP-4, D6 damage. When standing still the damage is Flat 6.

 

So for the Ultras this has big damage with the main gun on top of two additional Las Cannons and Heavy Bolter. The price is good, the movement is good, and it's a very worthwhile investment. I used this tank throughout 8th in various lists, and it's better now.

 

I would say that one of these might arguably be a better than a single Contemptor. The movement and firepower is significant.

[Captain Idaho]

I hate the CP cost. It feels wrong as opposed to just using the old relic limitation.  

 

I just bought a forge world Leviathan about a month ago, but no arms as I was told things were changing. I heard there’s a better option for the mounted flamers as well.  Would you say Grav Flux is the best choice for the Leviathan in general or just fir an aggressive build with the claw arm?

I'm okay with a CP tax since we get quite a few over a game.

 

The Grav Flux Bombard has a decent number of shots now, standard, rather than relying on it's odd special rules. It's fairly powerful and damage 3 is always nice. Kills 3 wound models too, which mostly have 3+ saves.

[emperorpants]

Yeah, I still think there is play with a a Levi dread. As noted by several already, it's best load out is likely double grav flux. Since its so much cheaper it can find a place in lists much easier. Think of the grav or storm cannon array load out with Guilliman and a techmarine. You are once again hitting on 2s and re rolling ones. Even without Guilliman hitting on 2s is quite good with the tech marine. Storm cannons might still have a place due to the 36" range, however I'd still go with grav flux. The volkite is an unexpected and welcome change as well.

 

The relic contemptor is worthless unless you want the double gun options. There might still be a place for one, and one only, in lists because 4 Las cannons is still nice. Sometimes you need the extra range.

 

I'd also like to say that the nerfs were expected, but its a nice change of pace to have GW give a nice drop in points for most things to compensate. Also, some things actually got better too, such as the sicarin venator and astraeus.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Relic Contemptors are great for Iron Hands.

[emperorpants]

Relic Contemptors are great for Iron Hands.

This is true. They will make for a good use of the IH dreadnought character strat now that they are 9 wounds.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

That too plus a targeter makes the hit on 2+ again.

[Karhedron]

The relic contemptor is worthless unless you want the double gun options. There might still be a place for one, and one only, in lists because 4 Las cannons is still nice. Sometimes you need the extra range.

Can the Relic Contemptor take a CML? I remember the kit has the option but can't remember if it was 30K only.

 

On the other hand, one of the best weapons now is probably the Multimelta. Since that can be taken on the Codex Redemptor, I am not sure the Relic version is needed.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Relic can take CML.

[Karhedron]

Relic can take CML.

The opportunity to squeeze off a couple of extra missiles per turn could be enough to justify the CP expenditure.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think so. I also take a Dreadnaught Chainfist with plasma blaster.

Edited November 6, 2020 by Black Blow Fly