Sanguinary Ancient

[Matarno - Lord of Skyfall]

Unless I have missed something, there is really no reason for us to be paying the upgrade on our Sanguinary Ancient to make them a Chapter Ancient. In the Index, they already have the Chapter Banner ability and then we can use Hero of the Chapter to give them Rites of War instead of the Chapter Ancient specific trait Steadfast Example. Rites of War actually seems better since it gives the Ancient and any other characters ObSec, instead of just Chapter Core units.

 

Did I miss something? How are people finding Index success in 9th using Wrath of Baal and our Ancients?

[WrathOfTheLion]

I thought you couldn't buy a chapter ancient for BA for the very reason that the Sanguinary Ancient exists.

 

I don't have my codex yet, but I thought that was a restriction.

[Blindhamster]

I thought you couldn't buy a chapter ancient for BA for the very reason that the Sanguinary Ancient exists.

 

I don't have my codex yet, but I thought that was a restriction.

This is exactly right. We dont have the chapter ancient option

[Matarno - Lord of Skyfall]

 

I thought you couldn't buy a chapter ancient for BA for the very reason that the Sanguinary Ancient exists.

 

I don't have my codex yet, but I thought that was a restriction.

This is exactly right. We dont have the chapter ancient option

 

 

Where in Codex Space Marines am I missing this? I realize that I don't need Chapter Ancient now, but wanna see where I missed the part where we can't take the upgrade.

 

And now I see it on page 98. Thanks for helping me clarify!

 

Any one played games using the new Ancient rules? I am about to play my first game with new Codex SM this weekend, and am honestly pretty excited about the buffs he will be giving out as it pertains to taking and holding objectives for primaries. 

[Indefragable]

Sanguinary Ancient as Warlord + Sanguinary Guard is an interesting combo, since the Chapter Banner gives +1 To Hit and the SG also get +1 To Hit from Heirs. But modifiers max out at +/- 1, correct? So it does not seem like the obvious choice it was back in 8th when the Chapter Banner gave re-roll To Wound rolls of 1. Going up against things that are -1 To Hit (like say, enemy Sang Guard) it would be a good combo, but especially for his price point I don't know if the Sang Ancient is worth it on his own.

 

However, give him the Wrath of Baal relic for that +2" movement....

[Matarno - Lord of Skyfall]

Sanguinary Ancient as Warlord + Sanguinary Guard is an interesting combo, since the Chapter Banner gives +1 To Hit and the SG also get +1 To Hit from Heirs. But modifiers max out at +/- 1, correct? So it does not seem like the obvious choice it was back in 8th when the Chapter Banner gave re-roll To Wound rolls of 1. Going up against things that are -1 To Hit (like say, enemy Sang Guard) it would be a good combo, but especially for his price point I don't know if the Sang Ancient is worth it on his own.

 

However, give him the Wrath of Baal relic for that +2" movement....

 

That is exactly how I plan on running him. Not as Warlord, but with the Rites of War trait and the Wrath of Baal. Use him to start on the board, with JP Captain Warlord and Jump Pack VV to move swiftly up to secure a midboard objective. Then drop in a JP Chaplain (canticle of hate) and big unit of SG to really bring the pain turn two. Hoping it works out well this weekend, playing a buddy that runs all Primaris Raven Guard

[The Unseen]

Using the Ancient warlord to combo with an all-fists unit is still valuable.

+2 to hit but -1 from unwieldy means the unit is still hitting on 2s with fists.

Thats like the only use I can see

[Matarno - Lord of Skyfall]

Using the Ancient warlord to combo with an all-fists unit is still valuable.

+2 to hit but -1 from unwieldy means the unit is still hitting on 2s with fists.

Thats like the only use I can see

 

With the +1 strength to the sword, and the flat D2 matching fists, is there really that much upside to the fist outside of vehicles? I guess if you are fighting a lot of T5 heavy infantry the fists come in handy?

 

I am torn on starting my guard on the board, or bringing them in with the chaplain to give them the +2 to charge with Icon of the Angel letting them reroll either or. Seems like our most reliable delivery method now?

[Karhedron]

With the +1 strength to the sword, and the flat D2 matching fists, is there really that much upside to the fist outside of vehicles? I guess if you are fighting a lot of T5 heavy infantry the fists come in handy?

I do like the option to be able to go and beat up vehicles effectively. It backs up my anti-tank capability against vehicle heavy opponents. It also comes in handy if the SG need to tackle Dreadnoughts and Monsters, many of which may be quite happy in melee.

 

I am torn on starting my guard on the board, or bringing them in with the chaplain to give them the +2 to charge with Icon of the Angel letting them reroll either or. Seems like our most reliable delivery method now?

The continuous scoring tempts me towards starting them on the board. It allows them to jump on an Objective T1 and score it on T2 while on their way to charge the enemy. The Tacs and Intercessors following up behind then take the vacated Objective(s) and hold them.

[Indefragable]

RE: Starting on the board vs in Deep Strike.....I recommend not locking yourself in until you have to. Make the call as late as you can to give yourself options. 

 

Need a strong counter-attack and/or OBJ early on? Start on board.

 

Need to get behind the enemy or survive a withering Turn 1 of shooting? Start in space. 

 

 

Etc....

[Matarno - Lord of Skyfall]

RE: Starting on the board vs in Deep Strike.....I recommend not locking yourself in until you have to. Make the call as late as you can to give yourself options. 

 

Need a strong counter-attack and/or OBJ early on? Start on board.

 

Need to get behind the enemy or survive a withering Turn 1 of shooting? Start in space. 

 

 

Etc....

 

Great advice, but we kind of get locked in with how deployment works now in 9th. No more choosing in the moment to deep strike or not, having to declare all deep strikers prior to deployment hurts our flexibility for sure.

 

My list runs a squad of 10 SG, 10 hammer and shield terminators and 10 VV with swords and shields. My initial idea is to have my VV escort my Ancient, Captain (warlord) and one of the Chaplains up the board, likely with everyone advancing to make the most of the extra 2 inches from Wrath of Baal. I believe that sets me up ideally to drop in the SG and second Chaplain. Said Chaplain uses the strat to cook off Canticle of Hate and he has the Icon of the Angel. I know have an insane amount of threats to move very rapidly into the enemy and secure midboard, especially if any of the VV survive their escort duty. Terminators hopefully dont have to come down until turn 3, where they are most effective.

 

Poke as many holes in my plan as you can, please haha. I haven't played a typical Primaris heavy marine army yet in 9th and want to be ready for it. I also might be playing Necrons now too.

[Indefragable]

 

RE: Starting on the board vs in Deep Strike.....I recommend not locking yourself in until you have to. Make the call as late as you can to give yourself options. 

 

Need a strong counter-attack and/or OBJ early on? Start on board.

 

Need to get behind the enemy or survive a withering Turn 1 of shooting? Start in space. 

 

 

Etc....

 

Great advice, but we kind of get locked in with how deployment works now in 9th. No more choosing in the moment to deep strike or not, having to declare all deep strikers prior to deployment hurts our flexibility for sure.

 

My list runs a squad of 10 SG, 10 hammer and shield terminators and 10 VV with swords and shields. My initial idea is to have my VV escort my Ancient, Captain (warlord) and one of the Chaplains up the board, likely with everyone advancing to make the most of the extra 2 inches from Wrath of Baal. I believe that sets me up ideally to drop in the SG and second Chaplain. Said Chaplain uses the strat to cook off Canticle of Hate and he has the Icon of the Angel. I know have an insane amount of threats to move very rapidly into the enemy and secure midboard, especially if any of the VV survive their escort duty. Terminators hopefully dont have to come down until turn 3, where they are most effective.

 

Poke as many holes in my plan as you can, please haha. I haven't played a typical Primaris heavy marine army yet in 9th and want to be ready for it. I also might be playing Necrons now too.

 

 

But you decide whether to DS or not during the Deployment Phase. It may be at the beginning of Deployment now, but it's essentially the same thing. Aka you can look at the mission, the board setup, the win conditions, and the enemy army before the Deployment phase. That's still plenty of room to make a strategic judgement call. 

[smileyjim]

 

 

RE: Starting on the board vs in Deep Strike.....I recommend not locking yourself in until you have to. Make the call as late as you can to give yourself options.

 

Need a strong counter-attack and/or OBJ early on? Start on board.

 

Need to get behind the enemy or survive a withering Turn 1 of shooting? Start in space.

 

 

Etc....

Great advice, but we kind of get locked in with how deployment works now in 9th. No more choosing in the moment to deep strike or not, having to declare all deep strikers prior to deployment hurts our flexibility for sure.

 

My list runs a squad of 10 SG, 10 hammer and shield terminators and 10 VV with swords and shields. My initial idea is to have my VV escort my Ancient, Captain (warlord) and one of the Chaplains up the board, likely with everyone advancing to make the most of the extra 2 inches from Wrath of Baal. I believe that sets me up ideally to drop in the SG and second Chaplain. Said Chaplain uses the strat to cook off Canticle of Hate and he has the Icon of the Angel. I know have an insane amount of threats to move very rapidly into the enemy and secure midboard, especially if any of the VV survive their escort duty. Terminators hopefully dont have to come down until turn 3, where they are most effective.

 

Poke as many holes in my plan as you can, please haha. I haven't played a typical Primaris heavy marine army yet in 9th and want to be ready for it. I also might be playing Necrons now too.

So I played a few necrons and had this issue... c'tan are :cusss.

I had one opponent with void dragon and silent king, watch out for void dragon mortal wound bomb.

Another list had three, 3 yes three c'tan one of which was the nightbringer, he's an even bigger :cuss.

The issue i had was their damage taken is capped at 3 per phase and I didn't have the shooting to get tgat phase. I then one shotted them in combat except they can only take 3 wounds and would then heal.

 

I learnt alot that game, melee is great but if you don't have at least some nasty shooting you will pay for it. I killed 1 thanks to my squad of eradicators but the other two where basicly completely invincible and carved apart my army. Awesome game despite getting wrecked so hard in that last match that I came 3rd instead of 2nd in the tournament.

That necron list though, it was so clever and the guy played it very very well he deserved the heads he reaped that day.

[Matarno - Lord of Skyfall]

 

 

RE: Starting on the board vs in Deep Strike.....I recommend not locking yourself in until you have to. Make the call as late as you can to give yourself options.

 

Need a strong counter-attack and/or OBJ early on? Start on board.

 

Need to get behind the enemy or survive a withering Turn 1 of shooting? Start in space.

 

 

Etc....

Great advice, but we kind of get locked in with how deployment works now in 9th. No more choosing in the moment to deep strike or not, having to declare all deep strikers prior to deployment hurts our flexibility for sure.

 

My list runs a squad of 10 SG, 10 hammer and shield terminators and 10 VV with swords and shields. My initial idea is to have my VV escort my Ancient, Captain (warlord) and one of the Chaplains up the board, likely with everyone advancing to make the most of the extra 2 inches from Wrath of Baal. I believe that sets me up ideally to drop in the SG and second Chaplain. Said Chaplain uses the strat to cook off Canticle of Hate and he has the Icon of the Angel. I know have an insane amount of threats to move very rapidly into the enemy and secure midboard, especially if any of the VV survive their escort duty. Terminators hopefully dont have to come down until turn 3, where they are most effective.

 

Poke as many holes in my plan as you can, please haha. I haven't played a typical Primaris heavy marine army yet in 9th and want to be ready for it. I also might be playing Necrons now too.

So I played a few necrons and had this issue... c'tan are :cusss.

I had one opponent with void dragon and silent king, watch out for void dragon mortal wound bomb.

Another list had three, 3 yes three c'tan one of which was the nightbringer, he's an even bigger .

The issue i had was their damage taken is capped at 3 per phase and I didn't have the shooting to get tgat phase. I then one shotted them in combat except they can only take 3 wounds and would then heal.

 

I learnt alot that game, melee is great but if you don't have at least some nasty shooting you will pay for it. I killed 1 thanks to my squad of eradicators but the other two where basicly completely invincible and carved apart my army. Awesome game despite getting wrecked so hard in that last match that I came 3rd instead of 2nd in the tournament.

That necron list though, it was so clever and the guy played it very very well he deserved the heads he reaped that day.

 

 

Thanks for the info! That is super helpful. I know the guy I am playing bought the Silent King, and I assume he will have it assembled for our game. I don't think he has an C'tan thankfully. They seem like a nightmare to fight. What is the toughness of a C'tan? I think that Hammer of Wrath became a super strong strat for us but I don't think it will work on one of those (they must be above T6).

[Spagunk]

Because of circumstances and lack of long term planning, I have three Sanguinary ancients now with no real reason to have more than one

Edited November 6, 2020 by Spagunk

[Montoya]

cut the banner hand off and replace it.  Then he's back to being a regular sanguinary guard.   Simple fix.

[Jolemai]

Because of circumstances and lack of long term planning, I have three Sanguinary ancients now with no real reason to have more than one

 

I have nine Chaplains...

[Spagunk]

 

Because of circumstances and lack of long term planning, I have three Sanguinary ancients now with no real reason to have more than one

 

I have nine Chaplains...

 

[Leonaides]

 

 

Because of circumstances and lack of long term planning, I have three Sanguinary ancients now with no real reason to have more than one

I have nine Chaplains...

You have no idea........ I could fit out 20+ captains and have 5 terminator librarians.

 

It happens...

[Karhedron]

I have nine Chaplains...

Pah! That's not even enough for a full Chapter. 

[SnorriSnorrison]

An interesting but possibly niche use is to combo the Sanguinary Ancient with the Rites of War WLT, add a Chief Apothecary and squad of Hammernators. Plonk on objective. See tides of Xenos crash against their shield wall, see them struggle to drown them in numbers with the added 6+++ and hold the objective for a good part of the game against overwhelming odds, being healed and resurrected as they fall.

 

Sure, it’s a lot of points and resources, but most likely you’ll keep one primary objective, which means you can more easily score 15 points each turn.

Not the best uses of BA(defense), but certainly an interesting one.

[Matarno - Lord of Skyfall]

An interesting but possibly niche use is to combo the Sanguinary Ancient with the Rites of War WLT, add a Chief Apothecary and squad of Hammernators. Plonk on objective. See tides of Xenos crash against their shield wall, see them struggle to drown them in numbers with the added 6+++ and hold the objective for a good part of the game against overwhelming odds, being healed and resurrected as they fall.

 

Sure, it’s a lot of points and resources, but most likely you’ll keep one primary objective, which means you can more easily score 15 points each turn.

Not the best uses of BA(defense), but certainly an interesting one.

 

This is exactly how I have used my hammernators so far in 9th. And that was pre the new CSM. I am excited to see how the added wound and changes to storm shields work for that tactic in my games against Necrons and Raven Guard this weekend. I see my hammernators, and possibly my vanguard vets, as opportunistic objective grabbers in the midboard.