Ultima Founding Unforgiven Chapters

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

watching a video from 40k theories on if the ultima founding dark angels successors know about the fallen and he mentions the mechanicus trained the initial chapters of primaris marines.
don't know really where that knowledge came from because he didn't specify, nor did he say more beyond that.

[Brother Tyler]

The Ultima Founding Dark Angels successors didn't know about the Fallen until they were taken in by the Unforgiven. It's possible that there are some Ultima Founding Dark Angels successors that don't know about the Fallen.

[WARMASTER_]

Inquisitor_lensoven all the lore about that is in the Ritual of the dammed PA book

 

It basically goes into Azrael telling the ultima founding chapters about the fallen because they need them in the hunt too as there’s loads more fallen than first thought and also Luther has escaped too which kind of forced his hand, most weren’t happy about them being told but as we all know Azrael is really in charge of them all so he went ahead and told them lol

 

Good read either way, but as brother Tyler says it’s really up to you, most if not all will know but if you want to create one that doesn’t it’s not a hard stretch at all to imagine it maybe they didn’t make it to the gathering he called to the rock

Edited November 5, 2020 by BladeOfVengeance

[UtariOnzo]

I don’t remember that in PA. i do remember the hub a bub about Lazarus being the first Primaris to join the inner circle in PA, and White Dwarf had an article where Azrael told the Unforgiven to accept primaris marines into their inner circle ranks, but again nothing that explicitly mentioned the Ultima chapters.

 

If I’m mistaken, I’d happily take a page number to double check and stand corrected when I get home tonight

Edited November 5, 2020 by UtariOnzo

[WrathOfTheLion]

I don't think anything was mentioned in PA. We can conclude that perhaps they started meeting up and training some of the successors, like when the Blades of Vengeance were deployed alongside the DA and Consecrators at Vigilus.

 

Likely we'll see something addressed about their organization in the supplement next year.

[Master Sheol]

As DA needed some time to start to trust primaris marines and induct them into RW and DW the same is for Successors chapters of the ultima founding being enterely made by primaris marines

so becoming part of the Unforgiven will be a long task for them and i guess that until that they will act like a normal codex chapter

[WARMASTER_]

I don’t remember that in PA. i do remember the hub a bub about Lazarus being the first Primaris to join the inner circle in PA, and White Dwarf had an article where Azrael told the Unforgiven to accept primaris marines into their inner circle ranks, but again nothing that explicitly mentioned the Ultima chapters.

 

If I’m mistaken, I’d happily take a page number to double check and stand corrected when I get home tonight

Apologies I’m mistaken it’s in the September 2019 white dwarf that had the DA index astartes goes on to say how the grey shields and ultima founding were brought into the unforgiven and inner circles respectively pages 28/29

 

“ Inevitably, questions arose around whether Primaris Space Marines formerly of the Greyshields and of the Ultima Founding Chapters should be inducted into the Inner Circle”

 

Basically goes on to say Azrael brought them all in after the first grey shield made it into the Deathwing :)

 

So we now know every chapter of the ultima founding was included and we can also likely state they now operate with their own wings under their own names like all the successor Paste the full bit below .... Spoilers

 

 

 

 

“Inevitably, questions arose around whether Primaris Space Marines formerly of the Greyshields and of the Ultima Founding Chapters should be inducted into the Inner Circle. Some argued that it simply could not be allowed to happen. Others stated that as inheritors of the Lion’s genetic legacy, they should have the mental fortitude to handle the secrets they might learn, and indeed a responsibility to play their part in the eventual defeat of the Fallen. Some took a more pragmatic view, their stance being that battlefield attrition alone might require it. The debate moved from a purely theoretical one as some members of the Inner Circle personally vouched for certain individuals or reported incidents where the Fallen had been observed by those who should not have seen them. One such example was Interrogator-Chaplain Zaeroph, who had been serving alongside the 3rd Company in the Chalnath Expanse. His testimony was of particular significance, given his previous hostility to the reinforcements brought to the Rock by Roboute Guilliman.

All of these arguments informed Azrael’s thinking on this most important of questions. His knowledge of the Dark Angels’ secrets surpassed all others, and he alone knew the full risks and opportunities in any course of action. All of this

APHARAN OF THE DEATHWING

Brother Apharan joined the Dark Angels directly from the Greyshields. Many battles later, he is the only warrior left alive from his original squad of ten. A grim figure possessed of the taciturn nature observed in most Dark Angels, Apharan knew that wearing Dark Angels colours alone would unlikely be enough to earn his brothers’ respect or to be accepted into their cloistered brotherhood. Despite already having a wealth of victorious battles to his name, Apharan made it his personal task to learn every lesson he could from his new brothers, absorbing what little of their history they revealed, their rituals, combat patterns, and more. Rapidly taking in this complex information, Apharan applied it on battlefield after battlefield, swiftly earning a reputation for competence, efficiency, and ruthlessness. During the boarding of the Heretic Astartes strike cruiser Pain Aeterna, he single-handedly defended a vital chokepoint against waves of traitor cultists and crew after having run out of ammunition. His actions drew the attention of the Deathwing, who initiated him into their ranks.

information bore upon his thinking, as did his own experience of seeing the Greyshields’ impressive skills in battle. He thought long on the matter. Luther’s escape weighed heavily on his mind. This burden was only made heavier when rumours reached him of a mustering of the Fallen beginning in the Somnium Stars. He doubted little that Luther himself was in some way responsible. Should these rumours hold any truth, potentially every one of the Unforgiven would have to be ready to meet the threat. No doubt this played a significant role in his decision to permit the induction of the former Greyshields and warriors of the Ultima Founding into the Inner Circle, should they be deemed worthy of such an honour and indeed judged capable of withstanding the shock of the truth.

When Azrael made his decision known, many of the Masters and Chapter Masters were incensed. Knowing that he could not tell them of Luther’s escape, Azrael faced the prospect of causing a second schism amongst the sons of the Lion. The gravest threat the Dark Angels and their successors had faced in ten thousand years brewed in the Somnium Stars, and he risked making more of his brothers renegade. Employing all of his diplomatic skill and appealing to the successors’ unimpeachable sense of duty, he persuaded all to consider another test. The Deathwing had petitioned him with one Brother Apharan. The former Greyshield had earned their attention, and the Deathwing believed he might be worthy of joining their number. Azrael put to the Chapter Masters and Masters that he had confidence that Apharan would pass the trials, hear the truth, and succeed as any Dark Angel might. Azrael staked his Chapter’s entire reputation on a single warrior”

Edited November 5, 2020 by BladeOfVengeance

[UtariOnzo]

Well, I stand corrected then, seems they were indeed mentioned, thanks for the clarification!

[WARMASTER_]

No problem man :)

[bigtrouble]

thanks for the quote!

[WrathOfTheLion]

Sounds good. I do think that's why BGVs, etc. were brought in, to address ultima founding chapters moreso. I think we'll see them be reorganized with DW/RW in the supplement.

[G8Keeper]

I believe DA also pushed for and obtained the knowledge to "manufacture" their own Primaris marines through the Rubicon Primaris without Mechanicum/Cawl's aid sooner than other chapters, to remove prying eyes from the equation. I can't recall where I read this, or even if I just dreamt it, but hey ho there you go.

[WARMASTER_]

Sounds good. I do think that's why BGVs, etc. were brought in, to address ultima founding chapters moreso. I think we'll see them be reorganized with DW/RW in the supplement.

Definitely!

 

I also think as it says though it’s to address losses, if they’re only making primaris now as I’m guessing they are as they’re a superior warrior, eventually there won’t be enough suitable first born to fill the roles in the DW/RW only a few can ever make it to the companies so as the first born’s numbers dwindle from combat loses the exceptional primaris will role the positions.

 

As it’s also been at least 100 years and they were in imperium nihilis the loses must have been staggering

I believe DA also pushed for and obtained the knowledge to "manufacture" their own Primaris marines through the Rubicon Primaris without Mechanicum/Cawl's aid sooner than other chapters, to remove prying eyes from the equation. I can't recall where I read this, or even if I just dreamt it, but hey ho there you go.

You definitely read it but I also can’t remember where lol

[Gederas]

I believe DA also pushed for and obtained the knowledge to "manufacture" their own Primaris marines through the Rubicon Primaris without Mechanicum/Cawl's aid sooner than other chapters, to remove prying eyes from the equation. I can't recall where I read this, or even if I just dreamt it, but hey ho there you go.

Correct, that was in both the codex and the Index Astartes article for them (and the Psychic Awakening book?)