30K Wings, 40k Style

[Cpt_Reaper]

Ahoy denizens of The Rock

 

Recently I have been musin on how to recreate, in a manner of speaking, the old Wings from the heresy using modern units. This came about simply because I wanted to create a 40k version of the Dreadwing for my DiY Successor Chapter and my group asked about the other 4 Wings and if they were possible to recreate.

Death- and Ravenwing are already usable.

 

So I have come up with the following:

 

Dreadwing: Scorched earth tactics

• Company Vetrerans w/ plasma
• Hellblasters
• Inceptors w/ plasma
• Eradicators
• Heavy Intercessors?

Ironwing:armoured assault and siege

• Repulsors and Land Raiders for transporting troops
• Aggressors, Centurions, Dreadnoughts
• Predators and Gladiators
• Firestrike Servo-turrets
• Hammerfall bunkers?

Stormwing: boarding actions, close assault

• Assault Intercessors and Assault Marines
• Inceptors w/ assault bolters

Firewing: target elimination and assassination

• Eliminators
• Scourts with snipers

Now I know that the Dark Angels don't use the Wings officially anymore save for the Ravenwing and Deathwing, but this is a more of a "What if" scenario. I also can see Successor Chapters basing their doctrines around one of the old Wings in general.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Not all of that is quite correct with Book 9: Crusade I think.

 

Dreadwing might be around right, although Reivers might also go there. Librarians should also go here.

 

Ironwing should also have Terminators, as it did in the GC/HH.

 

Stormwing is massed infantry, not just boarding. Intercessors, assault intercessors, assault marines, massed tactical marines. This is hard to represent without being able to have 20 man tactical squads like in HH.

 

Firewing is definitely still embodied by the Interrogator-Chaplains, which was an office in the Great Crusade in the Firewing. The firewing further specialized in recon (phobos, scouts), as well as dueling, so company champions as well. This is almost a 'shadow' wing, in that elements of it do in fact definitively exist in the modern 40k organization, notably in the Reclusiam.

[Gederas]

Not all of that is quite correct with Book 9: Crusade I think.

 

Dreadwing might be around right, although Reivers might also go there. Librarians should also go here.

 

Ironwing should also have Terminators, as it did in the GC/HH.

 

Stormwing is massed infantry, not just boarding. Intercessors, assault intercessors, assault marines, massed tactical marines. This is hard to represent without being able to have 20 man tactical squads like in HH.

 

Firewing is definitely still embodied by the Interrogator-Chaplains, which was an office in the Great Crusade in the Firewing. The firewing further specialized in recon (phobos, scouts), as well as dueling, so company champions as well. This is almost a 'shadow' wing, in that elements of it do in fact definitively exist in the modern 40k organization, notably in the Reclusiam.

Librarians would be in Firewing, not Dreadwing, as that's where the Librarius was put before Nikea happened.

 

And yeah, the Firewing is basically "Spec-Ops Wing".

Edited November 9, 2020 by Gederas

[WrathOfTheLion]

That is not true, in the Lion novel, it mentions that the Librarian being in the Firewing was more of an anomaly, as their typical place was the Dreadwing.

 

On page 44, first paragraph,

 

 

Very well, but I have told you what I sense. You owe me at least that much in return. Your gift has always been in the divination of that which is forbidden. That is why the Chaplains of the Firewing drew you into their brotherhood while most of the Librarius serves in the Dreadwing.

 

The Firewing contains the office of Interrogator-Chaplain, which continues forth into 40k in the Reclusiam.

 

In Crusade, we see further that duelists and Champions exist in the Firewing, making it almost further like the Emperor's Children legion on top of that. On Crusade, page 105,

 

 

Within its ranks were to be found an eclectic mix of stalkers champions and Moritat killers, all bound by their shared expertise in the arts of the blade and knife, duellists and assassins without peer. The Firewing sought the complete destruction of the enemy through the violent depletion of their command structure, whether in honourable duels at the heart of a battle or at the hands of subtle killers far from the battlefield.

 

So Interrogator-Chaplains, sniper units, possibly phobos in general and company champions all embody the Firewing.

Edited November 9, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Cpt_Reaper]

Way I see it is there would be a difference between a tempory formation and a permanent formation like the 40k Death- and Ravenwing.

 

Were it temporary then a Commander could draw from any Company to fill the ranks. But were it a permanent formation, moct likely part of a Successor then members of the 1st and 2nd Companies would be excluded, as would members of the Command Staff such as Chaplains and Librarians.

 

We'll start with the Dreadwing because I am biased and a huge fanboy.

What units would a permanant formation based on the Dreadwing include? Both Firstborn and Primaris should be listed for older and newer Successors.

[WARMASTER_]

Where as I agree with 95% of what Wrathofthelion has said above I would just give some thoughts to where I would slightly disagree

 

As the remaining DW/RW structures and tactics have changed in focus since the heresy maybe the current wings should be adapted also

 

Heresy era DW had many sub divisions but were primarily veteran line breakers supporting other wings (mostly the SW) and life wards to legion masters and commanders. Now the primary focus of the DW’s inner circle is the hunting the fallen, they’re still the hammer blow to most engagements fallen or not but there’s a definitive shift in focus of its wings purpose and organisation (I would actually argue BG’s addition brings them more inline with heresy era organisation as the DW companions were similarly outfitted)

 

The RW are less effected they’re still the chapters outriders and rapid assault force but again a shift in focus for the inner circle to be the huntsman of the fallen and tactics have adjusted accordingly

 

So I’d imagine it would only be right to also have inner circles in the current wings who’s mission is also aligned to the hunt of the fallen as well as their wing specialisations

 

For the IW i actually disagree with one thing that wrathofthelion says about terminators needing to be present, Aggressors are the new terminators and are used mostly as terminators were in the heresy. Line breaker heavy troops rather than the treasured relics the they are today so Aggressors and heavy intercessors for that matter too fit perfectly rather than needing terminators

 

SW, largely unchanged, the massed infantry works just as well as it would in the heresy. As wrath says Intercessors, Assault intercessors, Assault marines, Tactical Marines should all be present I think it would still be the largest wing by far in the chapter

 

Firewing, again I agree mostly with above, although I would say that reivers would be present as a covert terror troop fits the bill but I wouldn’t agree with scouts being present it’s supposed it be an elite mix of killers rather than marines in training

 

Dreadwing... again mostly agree with above Hellblasters, Devastators, Company vets with plasma I would also included the redemptor dreads as it’s says Dreadwing were the custodians of the least stable and most destructive of dreads and we know the redemptor class chews through pilots so they fit the bill nicely. I wouldn’t agree with heavy intercessors though as stated above they belong in the IW

 

One more point is a believe the Librarius would still mostly mostly inhabit the Deathwing as they currently do fir interrogation purposes but I could also see them in the Dreadwing if it’s inner circles true purpose shifted to the hunt like the current DW

 

 

All my opinions :) ... and also this is a great thread I’ve been writing my own successor since crusade came out that still uses 3 wings so this makes a great read

 

 

Edit: also sorry if that seemed at all confrontational Wrath it wasn’t meant to be at all :)

Edited November 9, 2020 by BladeOfVengeance

[WrathOfTheLion]

There are definitely units that will cross over and fit within multiple of the wings of the Hexagrammaton, so it isn't all or nothing on whether something would be applicable to their warfare.

 

For example, given the prior literature, Librarians were and do belong in some capacity in the Firewing, but their main home would be the Dreadwing.

[WARMASTER_]

Very true like tech marines in the Dreadwing as well as the iron wing

 

Or tanks being in the SW also

[Charlo]

Yep, best thing to remember is that all wings can theoretically contain all of the units.

 

Both Deathwing and Ironwing had LOADS of Terminators!

 

But as others have said, most of the wings falling out of fashion mostly plays into how the DA have changed in crossing the threshold of Legion > Chapter. In short, they just don't have the numbers.

 

The Ravenwing and Deathwing are vital for each chapter of unforgiven because of their roles in the inner circle and hunting the fallen in the Scouring and beyond.

 

The others though? In broad terms:

• Ironwing is basically just the armoury of each chapter now
• Stormwing is the battle companies structure in action
• Dreadwing is largely irrelevant as Astartes do not generally have the authority or means to murder an entire world in the 41st milenium

But that leaves the fire wing, which I think could be active today...!

 

The Consecrators chapter symbol is pretty much the Firewing symbol and they are known to be about capturing fallen and nothing else. Sounds pretty Friewing if you ask me!

[Gederas]

• Dreadwing is largely irrelevant as Astartes do not generally have the authority or means to murder an entire world in the 41st milenium

Well... They DO, but it's usually only a Chapter Master who can declare Exterminatus :lol:

[Charlo]

 

• Dreadwing is largely irrelevant as Astartes do not generally have the authority or means to murder an entire world in the 41st milenium

Well... They DO, but it's usually only a Chapter Master who can declare Exterminatus

 

Maybe?

 

Though it's not often at all and not really the MO in 40k for marines to be going around killing planets.

[Jings]

I always thought that a Successor Chapter that uses two different Wings for their 1st and 2nd Companies would be cool. 

[WARMASTER_]

<p>

 

 

 

 

 

• Dreadwing is largely irrelevant as Astartes do not generally have the authority or means to murder an entire world in the 41st milenium

Well... They DO, but it's usually only a Chapter Master who can declare Exterminatus

Maybe?

 

Though it's not often at all and not really the MO in 40k for marines to be going around killing planets.

It still happens loads in the lore, marines kill planets A Lot lol

 

And the Dreadwing weren’t just for killing planets they were more of a final sanction, so like need that Xenos race extinct ?... No problem! Need something dead... like erased from time dead?... No problem, if they were just for killing planets they would just be part of the fleet

 

Edit spelling

Edited November 10, 2020 by BladeOfVengeance

[WrathOfTheLion]

Star Phantoms have the Dreadwing badge. They haven't stuck them in the camp of DA successors yet, but they probably should imo.

[WARMASTER_]

Star Phantoms have the Dreadwing badge. They haven't stuck them in the camp of DA successors yet, but they probably should imo.

It’s quite a cool story how that happened actually Alan Bligh was doing some research for the badab war campaign and was drinking with Adam Troke at bugmans to pick his brain because he’d wrote the final battle (the palace of thorns assault by the star phantoms) and Adam was just trying to get to grips with why of all of the other chapters why were they specifically so single minded in the traitors destruction when other weren’t and “said maybe they’re a DA successor”

 

Boom a year later they’ve got a Dreadwing badge and a grim demeanour

 

I like they’re not confirmed though leans into the lore

[Cpt_Reaper]

I should clarrify the purpose of me making this thread. i wanted to know how the Wings would operate in the modern era, assuming that there would be some differences between the 30K and 40K versions.

 

In 30k Terminators might have been in other Wings, but in 40K Terminators are only 1st Company Deathwing. With that in mind I assume that a 40K version of the other Wings would also adhere to new restrictions, but I wasn't certain of how they might look so asked the members of the Unforgiven for advice.

 

Obviously the Dark Angels themselves don't use the other 4 Wings anymore but perhaps they may use a tempory formation inspired by them. More likely some Successors may have a dedicated Company based on one of the other 4 Wings especially now that the Codex has been essentially thrown out the airlock by Guilliman.

[WARMASTER_]

Edit: double post Edited November 10, 2020 by BladeOfVengeance

[jaxom]

I should clarrify the purpose of me making this thread. i wanted to know how the Wings would operate in the modern era, assuming that there would be some differences between the 30K and 40K versions.

 

*SNIP*

 

More likely some Successors may have a dedicated Company based on one of the other 4 Wings especially now that the Codex has been essentially thrown out the airlock by Guilliman.

 

The Angels of Vengeance first company is called the Dreadwing....

 

Anyway, onto the salient topic.

 

 

Dreadwing: Scorched earth tactics

• Company Vetrerans w/ plasma
• Hellblasters
• Inceptors w/ plasma
• Eradicators
• Heavy Intercessors?

• I think Eradicators and Heavy Intercessors belong elsewhere and will explain when I get to those Wings. I think Aggressors with Flamestorm Gauntlets fit scorched earth.

 

Ironwing:armoured assault and siege

• Repulsors and Land Raiders for transporting troops
• Aggressors, Centurions, Dreadnoughts
• Predators and Gladiators
• Firestrike Servo-turrets
• Hammerfall bunkers?

• I agree with everything except Aggressors, Centurions, and Dreadnoughts. I think Dreadnoughts would stay with whatever Wing they were in life (reflected by their ironform and weapon loadout). Aggressors fit with Dreadwing or Stormwing and I think Assault Centurions would be a better fit in the Stormwing, too.

 

Stormwing: boarding actions, close assault

• Assault Intercessors and Assault Marines
• Inceptors w/ assault bolters

• Stormwing, as the line combat experts, I think would be infantry and heavy infantry. Intercessors (all variants, including Heavy), Aggressors with Boltstorm Gauntlets, and Hurricane Bolter Centurions. I think Assault Bolter Inceptors would be better elsewhere.

 

Firewing: target elimination and assassination

• Eliminators
• Scourts with snipers

• Agreed. I also think Reivers make a lot of sense here. The other two I'd have as Firewing are Eradicators and Assault Bolter Inceptors. The Firewing wasn't always being sneaky, sometimes they'd bring down the hammer on units key to enemy morale. I think Eradicators do that for vehicles (pop goes the Knight, pop goes the Baneblade, etc) and Assault Bolter Inceptors can do that to small, elite units and isolated HQ units.

[Master Sheol]

IMHO

 

Dreadwing is all about rare and deadly weapons

So plasma, melta, grav and so on

 

Ironwing its all about tanks

 

Stormwing is all abbastanza close combat assault

 

Firewing is all about sniping

 

I have spoken

[WARMASTER_]

<p>

 

 

The Angels of Vengeance first company is called the Dreadwing....

 

I believe that’s just because all of the successors call their wings by a different name isn’t their RW called the Raptor wing??

 

Good points above though I would argue the point for aggressors in the iron wing but I feel like we’re all mostly on the same line of thinking

Edited November 11, 2020 by BladeOfVengeance

[WARMASTER_]

IMHO

 

Dreadwing is all about rare and deadly weapons

So plasma, melta, grav and so on

 

Ironwing its all about tanks

 

Stormwing is all abbastanza close combat assault

 

Firewing is all about sniping

 

I have spoken

Stormwing and Firewing covered way more ground than that

 

Stormwing was massed infantry tactics so encompassed most of the legion even says the used tanks and mobile artillery a lot

 

And fire wing was even in the heresy home to the interrogator wardens, Champions, Covert operations it’s more of a proto XX legion with I legion flare than just snipers

[WARMASTER_]

I should clarrify the purpose of me making this thread. i wanted to know how the Wings would operate in the modern era, assuming that there would be some differences between the 30K and 40K versions.

 

In 30k Terminators might have been in other Wings, but in 40K Terminators are only 1st Company Deathwing. With that in mind I assume that a 40K version of the other Wings would also adhere to new restrictions, but I wasn't certain of how they might look so asked the members of the Unforgiven for advice.

 

Obviously the Dark Angels themselves don't use the other 4 Wings anymore but perhaps they may use a tempory formation inspired by them. More likely some Successors may have a dedicated Company based on one of the other 4 Wings especially now that the Codex has been essentially thrown out the airlock by Guilliman.

I think how they would operate is completely up to you as it’s 40K and you can forge your own narrative

 

 

Personally I would imagine a non codex complaint chapter operating all 6 wings as a permanent structure then pooling warriors from each wing into strike forces on a Ad hoc basis as required,

 

Vice versa you could have them as you say as structures woven through the battle companies that are only used when needed it’s really up to you both are valid