Ultima Storm Shield confirmation

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

Just a small thing, but today's FAQ update has confirmed that Victrix Guard Ultima Storm Shields have remained the same as they always were (i.e they provide a 3+ invulnerable save, rather than +1 to armour saves and a 4+ invulnerable):

"Note that the rules for the ultima storm shield remain unchanged, even though storm shields were updated in the 2020 edition of Codex: Space Marines."

Page 1, second paragraph of Designer's Notes. 


Nothing to fix the wierd "Inspired Retribution" ability of Sicarius.... which is actually a Chaplain Cassius ability! 

Edit: Seal of Oath fixed!

Edited November 10, 2020 by Brother Sergeant Scarus

[jonjacob]

Shh! don't say anything or GW might fix it!

[Kallas]

Nothing to correct the wording on Seal of Oath, nothing to fix the wierd "Inspired Retribution" ability of Sicarius.... which is actually a Chaplain Cassius ability! 

 

This is incorrect, they have fixed the wording for the Seal of Oath:

 

*Page 75 – Special-issue Wargear, Seal of Oath, rules text Change second sentence to read: ‘Until the end of the battle, the bearer has the following ability: ‘Seal of Oath (Aura): While a friendly Ultramarines Core or Ultramarines Character unit is within 6" of the bearer, each time a model in that unit makes an attack against that enemy unit, you can re-roll that attack’s hit roll and you can re-roll that attack’s wound roll.’’

 

So the first sentence is now relevant again, and the buff applies when models affected attack the chosen enemy unit.

 

[Edit: It could be clearer still, but it at least no longer gives full, original Guilliman rerolls, because that was bonkers.]

Edited November 9, 2020 by Kallas

[Captain Idaho]

Mostly as expected. :)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Sorted.

[Prot]

No surprises for me there. But I am trying to figure out if Guilliman took a nerf. Tigurius' Prescience took a nerf.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Prot

[psyduck]

I don't see any change from the last FAQ for prescience?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Yeah what’s the nerf ?

[emperorpants]

Guilliman and Tiggy are the same, they haven't changed from the last faq. Pretty much the only thing that is different from the last faq is the clarification on the seal of oath.

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

 

Nothing to correct the wording on Seal of Oath, nothing to fix the wierd "Inspired Retribution" ability of Sicarius.... which is actually a Chaplain Cassius ability! 

 

This is incorrect, they have fixed the wording for the Seal of Oath:

 

*Page 75 – Special-issue Wargear, Seal of Oath, rules text Change second sentence to read: ‘Until the end of the battle, the bearer has the following ability: ‘Seal of Oath (Aura): While a friendly Ultramarines Core or Ultramarines Character unit is within 6" of the bearer, each time a model in that unit makes an attack against that enemy unit, you can re-roll that attack’s hit roll and you can re-roll that attack’s wound roll.’’

 

So the first sentence is now relevant again, and the buff applies when models affected attack the chosen enemy unit.

 

[Edit: It could be clearer still, but it at least no longer gives full, original Guilliman rerolls, because that was bonkers.]

 

 

Thanks, changed that now!

[Prot]

Yeah what’s the nerf ?

 

I thought it was the "core" keyword. 

 

I'm still a bit surprised/happy they didn't attach Core to Psychic Fortress which has been a great power.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Prot

[Subtleknife]

Yeah I thought for sure that was going to happen. I hope they don't as it is the only way to get invuns on primaris tanks which sorely need them.

[Mandragola]

Am I right in saying they still only have normal power swords though - not master crafted?

[Kallas]

Am I right in saying they still only have normal power swords though - not master crafted?

 

Yeah, no change there.

 

But compared to Bladeguard they are Bodyguards, not assault units, so it makes sense from a game balance perspective. (From a lore perspective, I do wish MC Power Swords were a bit more readily available).

[Prot]

Am I right in saying they still only have normal power swords though - not master crafted?

 

Since their shields stayed a 3++, I'm totally fine with this. To be quite honest it can be rare in my foot slogger lists for the Victrix to live long enough to wack something with their swords. In my opinion, if they upgraded the swords, they might potentially charge more for them which would be tough to swallow considering their current role. 

 

I'll tell you what I find confusing, and I haven't really thoroughly looked at this.... is all the banner options. Astartes banners, Bladeguard Ancient, Ancient, Relic banners... 

 

Also very happy for my foot sloggers that the Chief Apothecary 1) is a 15 pt upgrade, and 2) appears to be able to bring an ATV back from the dead with full wounds. I would say however, I am not using it this way and just use the strat to bring back infantry.... just in case.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think they would have addressed reviving an atv in the recent faq if it was a mistake.

[Kallas]

I think they would have addressed reviving an atv in the recent faq if it was a mistake.

 

It's not necessarily a mistake, just egregiously effective/efficient from a balance point of view.

 

An ATV costs more than an Apothecary (well, a Firstborn Chief Apothecary, anyway) and is the toughest thing they can revive. They also output a decent amount while taking a fair amount to bring down themselves - so bringing one back, with no CP cost is quite a potent combination and is what I think most people are kind of railing against.

 

The CA can bring back a Centurion Devastator, which is also very potent and costs more than the CA, but it's also easier to pop a Mv5" T5 4W model than a Mv14" T5 8W model, since one is easier to contain/can't just get away from enemy threats.

 

It just feels like an overly effective combination, even if it isn't necessarily 'broken'.

[Prot]

I don't know if I agree. I originally thought so but I honestly put the ATV much lower on the list of potential 'revivals' than other stuff. I've never revived one, but have revived a Cenutrion or Aggressor instead, and found that to be much better bang for the buck. 

 

Personally I am still only using the ATV because it's new. I own 3, and I still own a bunch of first born bikers which are far superior in a few different ways. 

 

I will say if the ATV is ever a half decent unit, then it -might- make the decision tougher... IE: perhaps I don't auto decide an Aggressor/Centurion... heck even an Eradicator is more important. 

 

As I've mentioned in a few batreps, I've intentionally not allowed myself to revive an ATV, but I've realized it usually isn't worth it in my lists at least. (And really if you're taking a chief apothecary, it's because there's a lot of good targets for that strat.)

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

 

I think they would have addressed reviving an atv in the recent faq if it was a mistake.

 

It's not necessarily a mistake, just egregiously effective/efficient from a balance point of view.

 

An ATV costs more than an Apothecary (well, a Firstborn Chief Apothecary, anyway) and is the toughest thing they can revive. They also output a decent amount while taking a fair amount to bring down themselves - so bringing one back, with no CP cost is quite a potent combination and is what I think most people are kind of railing against.

 

The CA can bring back a Centurion Devastator, which is also very potent and costs more than the CA, but it's also easier to pop a Mv5" T5 4W model than a Mv14" T5 8W model, since one is easier to contain/can't just get away from enemy threats.

 

It just feels like an overly effective combination, even if it isn't necessarily 'broken'.

 

 

I agree with this, it's super-efficient and, even if not broken, just seems over the top.

 

It's also weird that the ATV can Explode, and then be brought back to life. I mean what's going on there, is the Apo a chief mechanic too?

 

I know that it didn't get addressed in this FAQ, but we should all remember that the Space Wolves getting blanket Obsec also surivived one FAQ, so we can't put too much faith in it just remaining the same because it made it through this initial, very brief, document. 

 

I think the ATV is most over the top with Dark Angels. They have multiple ways to buff the unit defensively even beyond the rest of the book, and they have an apothecary who can keep pace with the unit too. 

 

Honestly, my personal preference is if they just made the revival work on Core only (so no ATV and no Centurions). Bikes and Infantry are otherwise fine.

[Mandragola]

I think the issue with the Apothecary and ATV is that it's weird, but not necessarily good. It breaks immersion somehow for an Apothecary to reassemble an exploded buggy as well as its crew. 

 

Invaders aren't all that awesome though, so in reality it's fairly unlikely to come up. They aren't Core, so each one has less output than an Eradicator if he's getting rerolls. The speed is good but a 55 point attack bike is just as fast. They might be a bit better in a dakka role, but marines don't really need extra dakka.

 

A Devastator Centurion costs more points and it's almost as weird that an Apothecary can repair one of those, given that the suit is likely to have taken massive damage before the guy inside is taken out. At some point you just have to concede that it's a game and not a simulation, so the line has to be drawn somewhere.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think the interaction is strange, that's its main problem. At first glance it's weird, that's the main reason people don't like it.

 

In reality, I don't think that it will really cause that many issues. As said before, DA and BA are the only ones with apothecaries that could keep up with the RW Apothecary and Sanguinary Priest. We'll have to see if it becomes a problem when BA players get their book, and then when the DA book comes out.

 

Until those supplements come out, I don't think it's really all that much priority to fix it.

Edited November 11, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Captain Idaho]

I think the effectiveness of 2 Invaders is dubious in a single unit. What is their purpose? Cheap chaff removal or additional anti-tank, whilst zipping up and taking objectives in my view. Paying 160-170pts for that seems inferior to just taking 3 Attack Bikes.

 

The Invader works best as a solo unit in my view, as it us superior to 1 Attack Bike but cheaper than 2.

 

Ergo, Chief Apothecary does little, especially if you're not utilising the speed of the thing and just crowding round an Apothecary. Take more static firepower units in that case instead.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Captain Idaho

[Prot]

I think the effectiveness of 2 Invaders is dubious in a single unit. What is their purpose? Cheap chaff removal or additional anti-tank, whilst zipping up and taking objectives in my view. Paying 160-170pts for that seems inferior to just taking 3 Attack Bikes.

 

The Invader works best as a solo unit in my view, as it us superior to 1 Attack Bike but cheaper than 2.

 

Ergo, Chief Apothecary does little, especially if you're not utilising the speed of the thing and just crowding round an Apothecary. Take more static firepower units in that case instead.

 

 

Well the thing is if you have an apothecary (and who wouldn't), it does make it a 16 wound unit to destroy. 

 

In my last game, for the very first time, I brought back an ATV from the dead, to full health.  

 

The thing is my opponent realized this, and just ignored them for the game. 

 

I do think they are slightly more flexible with 6 shots each + 2 MM shots, plus their speed, and large footprint. 

 

The silly thing is I still don't think they're worth it over normal bikers + an attack bike mixed in (plus "core"). Even though I brought one back we reviewed what they did and it was really very little yet again.

 

The lack of Core has become one of the worst things for me. I realize they aren't always in aura range, but sometimes with "Wisdom" I could make it work... IF they had the core keyword.

 

Multimelta's are great now, but realize in my last 4-6 games using these ATV's, it's amazing how often I miss/fail to wound. I don't know/care what the math is but what I see is an average of 1 MM wound a turn out of these guys. And if the opponent has a good invuln? Well now the bikes are just firing expensive bolters (and typically not doing much). The lack of the variety is also going against them. A Sarge with weapons makes a normal unit downright scary.

 

These are just my experiences. Maybe my White Scars will enjoy them more with a biker Chappy, and speedier HQ's. My Ultra's really don't need this unit, but I'm stubborn that way (See my Firestrike turret experience for more on that stubborness!)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

For some reason melta weapons seem to always end up rolling a 1 to hit cofound them.