TiguriusX Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Anyone have experience with outriders in a SW force? Considering adding an MSU unit to my drop pod force and removing the venerable dread The mobility and durability synergy with the rest of my list have me interested Want to know if they are performing or disappointing for other wolf lords Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367547-outrider-users/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Used them in my last 2 games actually and they are really good IMO. Incredibly high number of shots and attacks that get super dangerous in T3 too. I've been struggling actually with that role since I WANT my Twolves to fill it but the fact that outriders are faster and get transhuman (which the lack of it and bad rolls saw my Twolves disintegrate T1 vs guard) make it tough. I think they are an expensive way to absolutely wreck T3 troop squads and one main weakness ive found is they lack ObSec obviously so can struggle later in game to contest. Thats a weak gripe though since anything else that fills that role will have the same issue. All in all, i dig them. Bulwyf, TiguriusX and VIth 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367547-outrider-users/#findComment-5629435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted November 9, 2020 Author Share Posted November 9, 2020 Used them in my last 2 games actually and they are really good IMO. Incredibly high number of shots and attacks that get super dangerous in T3 too. I've been struggling actually with that role since I WANT my Twolves to fill it but the fact that outriders are faster and get transhuman (which the lack of it and bad rolls saw my Twolves disintegrate T1 vs guard) make it tough. I think they are an expensive way to absolutely wreck T3 troop squads and one main weakness ive found is they lack ObSec obviously so can struggle later in game to contest. Thats a weak gripe though since anything else that fills that role will have the same issue. All in all, i dig them. The plan is to escort a bike captain with rites of war so they have obsec Turn 1 use speed to grab an objective and set up turn 2 charge Stay alive with transhuman or skilled rider as needed I think killing all enemy troops and primary scoring units is how my drop pod list needs to play So the strength of the outrider fits nicely PeteySödes 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367547-outrider-users/#findComment-5629446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) Yea that sounds nice, to that end im really happy we can pair rites of war with other stuff using Warrior of Legend. It feels like we can have our cake and eat it too. Edited November 9, 2020 by PeteySödes TiguriusX 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367547-outrider-users/#findComment-5629448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenIronhand Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 I have them in there, mostly as a replacement for Wulfen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367547-outrider-users/#findComment-5629463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted November 9, 2020 Author Share Posted November 9, 2020 I have them in there, mostly as a replacement for Wulfen. Are they performing as you hoped? Good tales to tell of their deeds? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367547-outrider-users/#findComment-5629464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenIronhand Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) I have them in there, mostly as a replacement for Wulfen. Are they performing as you hoped? Good tales to tell of their deeds? Not yet. My first game since the Supplement pre-orders went up was against a guy who clearly didn't know the rules. His friend had to keep explaining them in this really hostile way. So I got exasperated and conceded. Maybe tonight. Dude had like a Repulsor Executioner, a Crusader, 3 Predators and only two squads of infantry. Edited November 9, 2020 by SvenIronhand TiguriusX 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367547-outrider-users/#findComment-5629466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 They're hyper specialized vs. 1-wound hordes that lack invulnerable saves. If your meta is lousy with those, They're an excellent pick. But the metagame at the moment leans towards higher toughness multi-wound models. Death Guard in particular are going to laugh them off when their codex hits next month. TiguriusX 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367547-outrider-users/#findComment-5629746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) Have them led by a Bike character with the Hunter WLT. 20" Movement and then they can still charge is pretty brutal. It's hard to tell if screening is going to become a major thing in 9th but these guys put out a lot of attacks for their points and make great chaff clearers. Someone has kindly pointed out that the Deed only triggers at the end of the phase so T1 charges from Hunter are unlikely. Of course if your opponent gets first turn, they will have to be careful how they advance or Outriders can pounce on them. Also plenty of people are looking at Incursors/Infiltrators to deploy forwards. If you opponent does that 3 Outriders should just about be able to clear 5 Phobos Marines between shooting and charging. Popping Bestial Nature for 1CP to kick them into the Assault Doctrine will really help ensure the kill. Edited November 11, 2020 by Karhedron TiguriusX 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367547-outrider-users/#findComment-5629753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay170788 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 They're hyper specialized vs. 1-wound hordes that lack invulnerable saves. If your meta is lousy with those, They're an excellent pick. But the metagame at the moment leans towards higher toughness multi-wound models. Death Guard in particular are going to laugh them off when their codex hits next month. But their primary role in that match-up won't be killing off plague marines. It'll be killing off poxwalkers from range and using their mobility to hold/take objectives. Maneuverability is Death Guards weakness and these exploit that perfectly. Don't knock the unit due to the fact they can't kill plague marines as that isn't their role. It's like saying nurglings are a poor troop choice as they wont help you table an Imperial Knights army..... TiguriusX, Karhedron and Kallas 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367547-outrider-users/#findComment-5630046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 I like running one unit of them. They do alot of the little things you need to win. They're definitely a bully unit in CC not being able to have a special weapon makes fair fights tough. I run my mine with the new chaplain and the combination works well because he addresses that weak spot. svane jotunsbane and TiguriusX 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367547-outrider-users/#findComment-5630148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted November 12, 2020 Author Share Posted November 12, 2020 I made an outrider version of my drop pod assault list. Removed the venerable dread to free up the points (140 v 135) ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Space Wolves) [107 PL, 12CP, 2,000pts] ++ + Configuration [12CP] + **Chapter Selection**: Space Wolves Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) [12CP] Detachment CP + HQ [18 PL, 355pts] + Captain [5 PL, 115pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Storm shield [10pts], Thunder hammer [20pts] Captain on Bike [8 PL, 160pts]: Chapter Command: Chapter Master [2 PL, 40pts], Frag & Krak grenades, Power fist [10pts], Storm shield [10pts], Twin boltgun, Warlord Chaplain [5 PL, 80pts]: 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Bolt pistol, Crozius arcanum, Frag & Krak grenades, Litany of Hate + Troops [18 PL, 272pts] + Blood Claws [6 PL, 90pts] . 4x Blood Claw [72pts]: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades . Blood Claw Pack Leader [18pts]: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades Blood Claws [6 PL, 90pts] . 4x Blood Claw [72pts]: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades . Blood Claw Pack Leader [18pts]: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades Grey Hunters [6 PL, 92pts]: Astartes Chainsword [1pts] . Grey Hunter Pack Leader [19pts]: Astartes Chainsword [1pts], Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades . 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol [72pts]: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades + Elites [32 PL, 615pts] + Bladeguard Veteran Squad [5 PL, 105pts] . 2x Bladeguard Veteran [70pts]: 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 2x Master-crafted Power Sword, 2x Storm Shield . Bladeguard Veteran Sgt [35pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt Pistol, Master-crafted Power Sword, Storm Shield Company Champion [4 PL, 70pts]: Bolt pistol, Chapter Command: Chapter Champion [1 PL, 15pts], Combat shield, Frag & Krak grenades, Master-crafted power sword Wolf Guard Terminators [9 PL, 170pts] . Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour [33pts]: Storm bolter, Storm shield . Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour [33pts]: Storm bolter, Storm shield . Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour [33pts]: Storm bolter, Storm shield . Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour [33pts]: Storm bolter, Storm shield . Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader [38pts]: Chainfist [5pts], Storm bolter Wulfen Dreadnought [7 PL, 135pts] . Great Wolf Claw and Blizzard Shield [15pts] . . Blizzard Shield [10pts]: Blizzard shield [5pts], Heavy flamer [5pts] . . Great Wolf Claw [5pts]: Great Wolf Claw, Heavy flamer [5pts] Wulfen Dreadnought [7 PL, 135pts] . Great Wolf Claw and Blizzard Shield [15pts] . . Blizzard Shield [10pts]: Blizzard shield [5pts], Heavy flamer [5pts] . . Great Wolf Claw [5pts]: Great Wolf Claw, Heavy flamer [5pts] + Fast Attack [8 PL, 165pts] + Cyberwolves [1 PL, 15pts] . Cyberwolf [15pts]: Teeth and claws Cyberwolves [1 PL, 15pts] . Cyberwolf [15pts]: Teeth and claws Outrider Squad [6 PL, 135pts] . 2x Outrider [90pts]: 2x Astartes Chainsword, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 2x Twin Bolt rifle . Outrider Sgt [45pts]: Astartes Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt Pistol, Twin Bolt rifle + Heavy Support [17 PL, 333pts] + Eradicator Squad [6 PL, 120pts]: Melta rifle . 2x Eradicator [80pts]: 2x Bolt pistol . Eradicator Sgt [40pts]: Bolt pistol Long Fangs [11 PL, 213pts]: Armorium Cherub [5pts] . Long Fang [38pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta [20pts] . Long Fang [38pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta [20pts] . Long Fang [38pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta [20pts] . Long Fang [38pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta [20pts] . Long Fang [38pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta [20pts] . Long Fang Pack Leader [18pts]: Astartes Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades . . Boltgun and Bolt Pistol: Bolt pistol, Boltgun + Dedicated Transport [14 PL, 260pts] + Drop Pod [4 PL, 70pts]: Storm bolter Drop Pod [4 PL, 70pts]: Storm bolter Razorback [6 PL, 120pts]: Twin lascannon [10pts] ++ Total: [107 PL, 12CP, 2,000pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net) It is facing salamanders in round 1. ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Salamanders) [105PL, 2,000pts, 11CP] ++ + Configuration + **Chapter Selection** . Salamanders: Salamanders Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment CP + HQ + Adrax Agatone [8 PL, 145pts]: Drakkis, Frag & Krak grenades, Malleus Noctum, Warlord Bray'arth Ashmantle [11PL, 220pts]: Burning Wrath, 2x Dreadfire claw, 2x Dreadfire heavy flamer Lieutenants [4 PL, 75pts, -1CP] . Lieutenant in Reiver Armour: Combat knife, Frag & Krak grenades, Master-crafted special issue bolt pistol, Rites of War, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Vox Espiritum + Troops + Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 120pts] . 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine . Infiltrator Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Marksman bolt carbine Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle . 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades . Intercessor Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle . 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades . Intercessor Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades + Elites + Aggressor Squad [12 PL, 200pts]: 2x Flamestorm Gauntlets, 4x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant Bladeguard Veteran Squad [10 PL, 175pts] . 4x Bladeguard Veteran: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 4x Master-crafted Power Sword, 4x Storm Shield . Bladeguard Veteran Sgt: Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt Pistol, Master-crafted Power Sword, Storm Shield Bladeguard Veteran Squad [10 PL, 175pts] . 4x Bladeguard Veteran: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 4x Master-crafted Power Sword, 4x Storm Shield . Bladeguard Veteran Sgt: Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy Bolt Pistol, Master-crafted Power Sword, Storm Shield Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 150pts]: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought combat weapon, Multi-melta + Fast Attack + Attack Bike Squad [4 PL, 110pts] . Attack Bike: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta, Twin boltgun . Attack Bike: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta, Twin boltgun Suppressor Squad [5 PL, 100pts] . 2x Suppressor: 2x Accelerator autocannon, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Grav-chute . Suppressor Sergeant: Accelerator autocannon, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Grav-chute Suppressor Squad [5 PL, 100pts] . 2x Suppressor: 2x Accelerator autocannon, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Grav-chute . Suppressor Sergeant: Accelerator autocannon, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Grav-chute + Heavy Support + Eradicator Squad [12 PL, 230pts]: Heavy melta rifle . 3x Eradicator: 3x Bolt pistol . Eradicator Sgt: Bolt pistol . Eradicator with MM: Bolt pistol, Multi-melta ++ Total: [105 PL, 2,000pts, 11CP] ++ Will put the batrep in my saga of the drop assault thread after the game is played. I can already see AP1 horde clearing strength of the unit is hard countered by the salamander list. Will be relying on the speed of the unit instead to get primary objectives and run down his attack bikes in melee. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367547-outrider-users/#findComment-5630485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) They're hyper specialized vs. 1-wound hordes that lack invulnerable saves. If your meta is lousy with those, They're an excellent pick. But the metagame at the moment leans towards higher toughness multi-wound models. Death Guard in particular are going to laugh them off when their codex hits next month. But their primary role in that match-up won't be killing off plague marines. It'll be killing off poxwalkers from range and using their mobility to hold/take objectives. Maneuverability is Death Guards weakness and these exploit that perfectly. Don't knock the unit due to the fact they can't kill plague marines as that isn't their role. It's like saying nurglings are a poor troop choice as they wont help you table an Imperial Knights army..... Except Thin their Ranks exists. Running Poxwalkers/Cultists/Gaunts/gretchin is handing your opponent VPs. Board control is also less important than it was in previous editions, because the only thing that matters is holding one more objective than your opponent, so spreading yourself thinner trying to hold every objective you can doesn't help. I'm not saying you shouldn't run Outriders if your opponent has targets for them. I'm just saying competitive players won't because the mission design heavily penalizes such units. Or if you prefer, substitute Custodes for Plague Marines. Edited November 12, 2020 by Squark Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367547-outrider-users/#findComment-5630508 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Thin their ranks is pretty irrelevant against pox-walkers and doesn't necessarily matter against gaunts either, a few big units of chaff doesn't give up points if your whole list is still under 100 models. Its easy to squeeze 8 points out of a secondary, you're only giving up points with your army list if your opponent can get 12 points out of you and only in big trouble if they can guarantee the full 15 while you can't. Karhedron 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367547-outrider-users/#findComment-5630558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 People are too worried about secondaries that give opponents VPs for targeting certain units of yours. But players only choose 3 secondaries and most players will build around Objectives they can choose to accomplish. Deploy Scramblers for instance is worth 10VPs and is pretty easy for many armies to achieve. If a particular secondary will net your opponent <10 VPs it is unlikely your opponent will opt for it. "Bring it Down" only becomes a problem if you want more than 3 heavy vehicles or 5 lighter ones. Similarly "Thin their ranks" only matters once you get over 100 models. Worry about how to kill the enemy before you worry about how the enemy will kill you. Kassill, svane jotunsbane, Bulwyf and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367547-outrider-users/#findComment-5630677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Yeah I agree with Karhedron (been writing that a lot lately :)), and based on some of the lists that have had success would probably take it a step further. There have been some deathguard, and sisters lists that have done really well even though they have tons of vehicles (mortifiers and blight-haulers) in two day GTs, so it's ok to lean into a strength. TiguriusX and Karhedron 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367547-outrider-users/#findComment-5630694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted November 12, 2020 Author Share Posted November 12, 2020 Seeing the lack of interest I was fiddling with outrider points and discovered I can have 3 single attack bikes with a multi melta if I also remove the cyber wolves So my new fast attack force could be 3 separate 14" t5 multi melta platforms It is very tempting...I would have a surprise space wolf force packing 24 melta shots total. I can get 8-10 of those at BS 2 rerolling with keen senses to ignore modifiers as well (either the long fangs or the eradicators get recitation of focus auto chanted). Not the kind of shooting you expect from a melee army. I still have hqs...blood claws and 2 wulfen dreads to smash in melee too Karhedron 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367547-outrider-users/#findComment-5630701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Attack bikes are good options, I do think that melta weapons will go up in points soon. It feels like the meta is trending towards fit as many eradicators/Multi-Melta units as you can into your list. GW will notice when people skip the new vehicles because they're viewed as dead on arrival. TiguriusX 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367547-outrider-users/#findComment-5630986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Multimeltas already got a price hike at the start of 9th to reflect their new stats so it is baked in already. I would not be surprised to see Eradicators get a bit of a price hike in the new CA. They are just a smidge too good IMHO. As you say, people are looking at the new SM Gladius and saying "But Eradicators...." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/367547-outrider-users/#findComment-5631062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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