1+ armor save

[Miek]

Quick question: can you boost an armor save to 1+? If so, does a roll of 1 still fail?

 

So it'd still be useful against AP weapons but would otherwise be equivalent to 2+.

 

Lastly, can you boost it even further (ex.: 0+, still fails on ones)?

 

Thanks!

[TrawlingCleaner]

You can boost an armour save as far as you want, there is no limit, however 1s always fail.

It really helps negate AP, with an effect 1+ armour save you ignore -1ap etc.

[Karhedron]

A model with Terminator Armour and Storm Shield in Light cover would have a 0+ save. You are correct that a 1 would always fail. However the ability to ignore anything up to AP-2 is pretty tasty.

[Miek]

That's awesome, thanks!

[Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch]

You can do this with lychguard, too. In my last gave I discovered it was possible to give them a full 1+ cover save out in the open thans to dispersion shields and the hypermatieral ablator Arkana. Made them a little tougher against the AP-2 weapons my opponent was rocking.

[Miek]

Yeah I was thinking about lychguards with the eternal guardian protocols, the immovable phalanx trait and shields (playing second).

[Seahawk]

Page 221 - Unmodified 1s always fail saves.

 

By way of warning, be careful how you say your save because there's a world of difference between a 1+ save and a 2+ save with a +1 modifier.

 

Having a 1+ save characteristic means you always save on a 2+ (because 1s always fail), regardless of the amount of armor penetration modifiers. This is because a roll can never be modified to lower than a 1 via modifiers (pg 200). Since the result of the roll is a 1, and your characteristic is 1+, that means you have passed your save roll. This is why the internet blew up over the new storm shields when they said they improved the characteristic and not the roll. 

 

Having a 2+ save with a +1 modifier means you still have a save value of a 2+, and thus will fail on a 1 of the roll, not just an unmodified dice result of 1. 

 

Happy saving!

[MegaVolt87]

Page 221 - Unmodified 1s always fail saves.

 

By way of warning, be careful how you say your save because there's a world of difference between a 1+ save and a 2+ save with a +1 modifier.

 

Having a 1+ save characteristic means you always save on a 2+ (because 1s always fail), regardless of the amount of armor penetration modifiers. This is because a roll can never be modified to lower than a 1 via modifiers (pg 200). Since the result of the roll is a 1, and your characteristic is 1+, that means you have passed your save roll. This is why the internet blew up over the new storm shields when they said they improved the characteristic and not the roll. 

 

Having a 2+ save with a +1 modifier means you still have a save value of a 2+, and thus will fail on a 1 of the roll, not just an unmodified dice result of 1. 

 

Happy saving!

 

I honestly don't understand why they don't just add a designers note like "storm shields modify your armour save by +1 against weapons with an ap of -1 or greater, an armour save roll of 1 will always fail." 

[Seahawk]

Probably because getting a +1 to your roll only when the attack has AP -1 or greater is worse in every respect than simply getting +1 to your roll all the time. It means models with a 3+ save will pass on a 2 or higher, 4+ will pass on a 3 or higher, etc.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Suppose a terminator with a storm shield is in cover -> 2+ -1 -1 -> modified armor save is 0, so versus AP3 a roll of 3+ saves. Iron Hands have a psychic power that is another -1 so would save on a 2+ versus AP3.