Infiltrators for Dark Angels

[Skywrath]

Hello all, long time no see. Straight to the point - do you see a competitive spot for Infiltrators and more specifically, Helix Adepts in Dark Angel lists? Got a box of those coming and I'm not sure whether I should paint them as Deathwatch or Dark Angels. Thanks for your input!

[Angel of Solitude]

Yes, Infiltrators are great in any Space Marine force, not just Dark Angels.

 

First, concealed positions allows you to do two things: 

1. Get yourself on a mid-table objective before the game starts, which means that at least for that objective, your opponent has to first shift you off. 
2. Gets you in a position to be able to do the mid-table "Deploy Scramblers" secondary on your first turn. If the battle works in your favour, then you can push them up to the opponent's deployment zone and get that "Deploy Scramblers" action.

Second, you have a 12" deep-strike denial bubble around each model. String a squad out along your deployment zone, and you're going to make it really difficult for your opponent to get into your deployment zone and score any related secondaries.

 

Another good thing you can do with them is use the Guerilla Tactics stratagem to take them off the board and into Strategic Reserves. It's a very flexible redeployment stratagem that can be used to great effect to secure your secondaries. 

 

The Helix gauntlet is an interesting one. If you have the points free, then it might be useful, but otherwise, 10points is a power fist on an Intercessor Sergeant. Bear in mind that with an Infiltrator squad, you should be making the most of cover anyway, and you can pop off the Smokescreen stratagem for a -1 to hit, or even Transhuman Physiology if you really want them to survive - for example you want them to perform an action in their next movement phase. 

 

I played against Deathwatch last week, and in his list, my opponent had a single Infiltrator in his Phobos Killteam - that's enough to get you the 12" deepstrike denial bubble. So in a box of 10, 5 Dark Angels and 5 Deathwatch? 

[Skywrath]

Yes, Infiltrators are great in any Space Marine force, not just Dark Angels.

 

First, concealed positions allows you to do two things: 

1. Get yourself on a mid-table objective before the game starts, which means that at least for that objective, your opponent has to first shift you off. 
2. Gets you in a position to be able to do the mid-table "Deploy Scramblers" secondary on your first turn. If the battle works in your favour, then you can push them up to the opponent's deployment zone and get that "Deploy Scramblers" action.

Second, you have a 12" deep-strike denial bubble around each model. String a squad out along your deployment zone, and you're going to make it really difficult for your opponent to get into your deployment zone and score any related secondaries.

 

Another good thing you can do with them is use the Guerilla Tactics stratagem to take them off the board and into Strategic Reserves. It's a very flexible redeployment stratagem that can be used to great effect to secure your secondaries. 

 

Thanks for the info! They looked like an interesting unit even before their changes and with the terminator meta they seem invaluable.

 

The Helix gauntlet is an interesting one. If you have the points free, then it might be useful, but otherwise, 10points is a power fist on an Intercessor Sergeant. Bear in mind that with an Infiltrator squad, you should be making the most of cover anyway, and you can pop off the Smokescreen stratagem for a -1 to hit, or even Transhuman Physiology if you really want them to survive - for example you want them to perform an action in their next movement phase. 

 

Let's look at this another way - the helix gauntlet changed from a 5+ restore D3 wounds to reduce one attack to 0. I'm struggling to think of an example where that might be useful, can you provide one for me, in a Dark Angel faction specific sense? Like would that ability be useful for storm-bolters or heavier weapons such as plasma? Because as far as I am concerned that ability only applies to that unit, and not others.

 

I played against Deathwatch last week, and in his list, my opponent had a single Infiltrator in his Phobos Killteam - that's enough to get you the 12" deepstrike denial bubble. So in a box of 10, 5 Dark Angels and 5 Deathwatch? 

 

That's the thing - I'm not sure whether I want to have TWO space marines armies. I like the Deathwatch because of the absurd amount of customisation you can do with them, and I still want to hold onto my DA in the unlikely chance the Lion will return. When the Lion returns, you can absolutely bet, I'll be maining Dark Angels for that edition. Then there is the matter to consider of whether having the 10 infiltrators for the Deathwatch to form the Spectrus teams is more important then using the Infiltrators on a regular basis for my DA. Unfortunately 5 for each isn't going to cut it, because I need all 10 for either or. That's my dillema. That being said, according to BS, you need to have 5 infiltrators (4 with helix adept) in order for the Spectrus team to be valid. I am new to Deathwatch but according to this, what he done was illegal.

 

In blue.

[Angel of Solitude]

I could be wrong, but I see the Helix gauntlet is just another way to increase the survivability of your unit. You're shot at by a unit of 5 Intercessors in rapid fire range: Say 6 shots hit, and 3 wound. You save 2, but 1 goes through - the Helix gauntlet turns that 1 damage into 0, and so your unit takes no damage at all. It's even better if you fail a wound from a Stalker Bolt Rifle: That 2 damage shot now doesn't kill a guy - it does nothing at all!

 

You are correct though - it affects only that unit, no other unit gets the benefit. There is no way to make it unique to Dark Angels, and given that you can do it every single turn, it's probably a good investment if you're planning to use that Infiltrator unit to just sit on a midfield objective in cover and just be a pain to shift.

 

With regards to the Deathwatch...apologies, I didn't explain the situation completely - my friend had a full 10-man Spectrus kill team, with 6 Infiltrators and 4 Eliminators, which he then combat squadded into 5 Infiltrators and 4 Eliminators + 1 Helix Adept. 10 Infiltrators will play the same role for Deathwatch as they will for Dark Angels, but with Deathwatch you get the increased flexibility of incorporating different Phobos units into a kill team and making them ObSec at the same time.

 

At the end of the day, if you want to collect Deathwatch...DO IT! They're in a better shape now than they were last edition as they now get access to a lot more from the Space Marine codex than they used to.

[ValourousHeart]

 

The Helix gauntlet is an interesting one. If you have the points free, then it might be useful, but otherwise, 10points is a power fist on an Intercessor Sergeant. Bear in mind that with an Infiltrator squad, you should be making the most of cover anyway, and you can pop off the Smokescreen stratagem for a -1 to hit, or even Transhuman Physiology if you really want them to survive - for example you want them to perform an action in their next movement phase. 

 

Let's look at this another way - the helix gauntlet changed from a 5+ restore D3 wounds to reduce one attack to 0. I'm struggling to think of an example where that might be useful, can you provide one for me, in a Dark Angel faction specific sense? Like would that ability be useful for storm-bolters or heavier weapons such as plasma? Because as far as I am concerned that ability only applies to that unit, and not others.

 

In blue.

 

From Ritual of the Damned, the Helix could heal 1 wound of a damaged model from the unit or return 1 model to the unit with one wound.  That effect took place at the end of your movement phase.

 

That meant that if your opponent shot you, killed an Infiltrator, and then charged you, you would be a man down during that assault phase because the guy wouldn't pop back up until your movement phase.

 

Now if they would have killed 1 model during the shooting phase, you still have that model during the assault phase.  So it is 2 wounds healed instead of 1, and it happens as early as your assault phase, instead of your movement phase.

 

And it doesn't matter what type of weapon that your opponent uses against you, because the damage is reduced to zero.

 

 

 

 

I played against Deathwatch last week, and in his list, my opponent had a single Infiltrator in his Phobos Killteam - that's enough to get you the 12" deepstrike denial bubble. So in a box of 10, 5 Dark Angels and 5 Deathwatch? 

 

That's the thing - I'm not sure whether I want to have TWO space marines armies. I like the Deathwatch because of the absurd amount of customisation you can do with them, and I still want to hold onto my DA in the unlikely chance the Lion will return. When the Lion returns, you can absolutely bet, I'll be maining Dark Angels for that edition. Then there is the matter to consider of whether having the 10 infiltrators for the Deathwatch to form the Spectrus teams is more important then using the Infiltrators on a regular basis for my DA. Unfortunately 5 for each isn't going to cut it, because I need all 10 for either or. That's my dillema. That being said, according to BS, you need to have 5 infiltrators (4 with helix adept) in order for the Spectrus team to be valid. I am new to Deathwatch but according to this, what he done was illegal.

 

In blue.

 

Personally I think if you are going to use this unit in an advanced position with the helix then you are going to want this to be a 10 man squad.

 

If you feel that 5 man squads are good enough in all cases at your local club, then splitting the box and making 5 DA and 5 DW is a good way to save a little cash.

 

However what I think you leaning toward is the ability to swap which army you are playing.

This is easy or tricky depending upon how you painted the army.

I'm also interested in making a Deathwatch army but I'm not interested in buy additional bikes for Deathwatch over the bikes that I already have for Dark Angels.

I've used a custom color scheme for my DA and could easily just continue that color scheme for my Deathwatch, and then not have to buy duplicate marine boxes for both armies.

 

Now I haven't started paint any models that are uniquely Deathwatch, so I could still change my mind when I get there.

But I've done one consistent thing with all of my 40k armies... I don't know if I did this on purpose or just by chance... but all the armor colors are a tan bone.

So my sisters of battle were the first ones that I painted and were bone armor, red robes and brass weapons.

Then I added an Inquisitor and some assassins, bone armor, blue robes and brass weapons.  (This one was on purpose)

 

Years later when I got started painting my RW I struggled finding the right armor color... until I settled on bone armor with green accents, red squad markings, and dark silver weapons.

(This one was by chance, I just was trying different things out and ended up settling on bone)

So now when I field the armies they mesh together but there are clear elements that connect certain units with one another.

It also means that I buy Zandri Dust spay by the case.

 

Dark Angels also already have a style of having multiple color schemes across units, so shaking things up with a merger of Deathwatch units in your collection so that you can use crossover units with both codexes is really straight forward.

 

So much the same way that people would paint extra special and heavy weapons to trade out with existing squads, you could just mix and match models from different units to make your Deathwatch kill teams.

[Skywrath]

I could be wrong, but I see the Helix gauntlet is just another way to increase the survivability of your unit. You're shot at by a unit of 5 Intercessors in rapid fire range: Say 6 shots hit, and 3 wound. You save 2, but 1 goes through - the Helix gauntlet turns that 1 damage into 0, and so your unit takes no damage at all. It's even better if you fail a wound from a Stalker Bolt Rifle: That 2 damage shot now doesn't kill a guy - it does nothing at all!

 

You are correct though - it affects only that unit, no other unit gets the benefit. There is no way to make it unique to Dark Angels, and given that you can do it every single turn, it's probably a good investment if you're planning to use that Infiltrator unit to just sit on a midfield objective in cover and just be a pain to shift.

 

With regards to the Deathwatch...apologies, I didn't explain the situation completely - my friend had a full 10-man Spectrus kill team, with 6 Infiltrators and 4 Eliminators, which he then combat squadded into 5 Infiltrators and 4 Eliminators + 1 Helix Adept. 10 Infiltrators will play the same role for Deathwatch as they will for Dark Angels, but with Deathwatch you get the increased flexibility of incorporating different Phobos units into a kill team and making them ObSec at the same time.

 

At the end of the day, if you want to collect Deathwatch...DO IT! They're in a better shape now than they were last edition as they now get access to a lot more from the Space Marine codex than they used to.

 

Thanks for the advice! I guess I'm painting them as Deathwatch, although as Dark Angels seconded to them.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Skywrath

[Skywrath]

 

 

The Helix gauntlet is an interesting one. If you have the points free, then it might be useful, but otherwise, 10points is a power fist on an Intercessor Sergeant. Bear in mind that with an Infiltrator squad, you should be making the most of cover anyway, and you can pop off the Smokescreen stratagem for a -1 to hit, or even Transhuman Physiology if you really want them to survive - for example you want them to perform an action in their next movement phase. 

 

Let's look at this another way - the helix gauntlet changed from a 5+ restore D3 wounds to reduce one attack to 0. I'm struggling to think of an example where that might be useful, can you provide one for me, in a Dark Angel faction specific sense? Like would that ability be useful for storm-bolters or heavier weapons such as plasma? Because as far as I am concerned that ability only applies to that unit, and not others.

 

In blue.

 

From Ritual of the Damned, the Helix could heal 1 wound of a damaged model from the unit or return 1 model to the unit with one wound.  That effect took place at the end of your movement phase.

 

Is that still the case, out of curiousity?

 

That meant that if your opponent shot you, killed an Infiltrator, and then charged you, you would be a man down during that assault phase because the guy wouldn't pop back up until your movement phase.

 

Now if they would have killed 1 model during the shooting phase, you still have that model during the assault phase.  So it is 2 wounds healed instead of 1, and it happens as early as your assault phase, instead of your movement phase.

 

And it doesn't matter what type of weapon that your opponent uses against you, because the damage is reduced to zero.

 

 

 

 

I played against Deathwatch last week, and in his list, my opponent had a single Infiltrator in his Phobos Killteam - that's enough to get you the 12" deepstrike denial bubble. So in a box of 10, 5 Dark Angels and 5 Deathwatch? 

 

That's the thing - I'm not sure whether I want to have TWO space marines armies. I like the Deathwatch because of the absurd amount of customisation you can do with them, and I still want to hold onto my DA in the unlikely chance the Lion will return. When the Lion returns, you can absolutely bet, I'll be maining Dark Angels for that edition. Then there is the matter to consider of whether having the 10 infiltrators for the Deathwatch to form the Spectrus teams is more important then using the Infiltrators on a regular basis for my DA. Unfortunately 5 for each isn't going to cut it, because I need all 10 for either or. That's my dillema. That being said, according to BS, you need to have 5 infiltrators (4 with helix adept) in order for the Spectrus team to be valid. I am new to Deathwatch but according to this, what he done was illegal.

 

In blue.

 

Personally I think if you are going to use this unit in an advanced position with the helix then you are going to want this to be a 10 man squad.

 

That is very likely.

 

If you feel that 5 man squads are good enough in all cases at your local club, then splitting the box and making 5 DA and 5 DW is a good way to save a little cash.

 

That being said, how many Infiltrator teams do Marines run? 2, I want to say, at a competitive level,for the deny?

 

However what I think you leaning toward is the ability to swap which army you are playing.

This is easy or tricky depending upon how you painted the army.

I'm also interested in making a Deathwatch army but I'm not interested in buy additional bikes for Deathwatch over the bikes that I already have for Dark Angels.

I've used a custom color scheme for my DA and could easily just continue that color scheme for my Deathwatch, and then not have to buy duplicate marine boxes for both armies.

 

Very true. I'm wondering how I can play around that, because while all my DW units will have Dark Angel iconography on them, they will have the black/silver scheme. If the tournament is WYSIWYG then I'm not sure it will fly. So black of the Deathwatch, with the silver arm of the Deathwatch, while the right being the green of the Dark Angels. Casual sense - definitely, but tournament sense, not so much. That being said, I know certain units such as the Hellblasters pale in comparison to Inceptors (both of which I have in a unit of 10, and a unit of 6 ((Plasma)) respectively. Then there is the case of which Dark Angel units are not good for them, but good enough to be done with Deathwatch. Going back to the above example - I have 6 plasma inceptors and 10 hellblasters. Both in Dark Angel colors. Inceptors would probably be better for the Dark Angels rather than the Deathwatch (on the account of the Indomitor Kill Team eradicator preference). So then the question becomes how many hellblasters would my deathwatch need, and would I use them in the future (the answer to that is yes, due to the fortis KT). Then there is the matter of other units that can be good for both. I have about 9 Aggressors (boltstorm) and I can see them both working in both lists pretty well, perhaps slightly better in the DA ones due to the 4+ invuln provided by Azrael. But the flipside of that argument that they could very well be the next best thing in Indomitus KTs. Then apply that mentality to the vision of my Deathwatch being primaris only as a counterpart to my firstborn only GK, and you get the idea. Seeing the pattern?

 

Now I haven't started paint any models that are uniquely Deathwatch, so I could still change my mind when I get there.

But I've done one consistent thing with all of my 40k armies... I don't know if I did this on purpose or just by chance... but all the armor colors are a tan bone.

So my sisters of battle were the first ones that I painted and were bone armor, red robes and brass weapons.

Then I added an Inquisitor and some assassins, bone armor, blue robes and brass weapons.  (This one was on purpose)

 

Years later when I got started painting my RW I struggled finding the right armor color... until I settled on bone armor with green accents, red squad markings, and dark silver weapons.

(This one was by chance, I just was trying different things out and ended up settling on bone)

So now when I field the armies they mesh together but there are clear elements that connect certain units with one another.

It also means that I buy Zandri Dust spay by the case.

 

Dark Angels also already have a style of having multiple color schemes across units, so shaking things up with a merger of Deathwatch units in your collection so that you can use crossover units with both codexes is really straight forward.

 

This brings me to an interesting question - has there been any Ravenwing in the Deathwatch? Both bike colors schemes are black, and even in a strictly WYSIWYG scenario, that would still fly (pun not intended).

 

So much the same way that people would paint extra special and heavy weapons to trade out with existing squads, you could just mix and match models from different units to make your Deathwatch kill teams.

 

Personally, I wonder whether it's worth buying extra parts, magnetising them, and doing two different schemes (two sets of arms in different colors - one for Dark Angels, one for Deathwatch. Alternatively, I could do what Gederas is doing and do my Dark Angels in those colors - that would probably work actually.

 

 

In red.

[FarFromSam]

Hey yall. I had more of fluff question about phobos armor. I haven't read the new stuff on primaris and wanted to know what the point of phobos is. It seems to be all around superior to basic mk. X from game play perspective. Same move, same save, attacks etc. Except they can forward deploy, take advanced gear, but are still troops. So, is there a fluff reason why every primaris aren't wearing the stuff? Edited November 17, 2020 by farfromsam

[Skywrath]

Casually hijacking my thread.. don't mind me, that's perfectly fine (!)

[FarFromSam]

Hmmm, I'm sorry, that was not my intention... let me contribute then. I think most of the reasons for taking infiltrators have been touched on. The deny deep strike is situational, but having been on the receiving end of it, is devastating. The infiltrate for quick deploy scramblers can always be used. It can be dangerous to deploy a unit forward, especially if your opponent is going to use them to leap frog their assault unit through no mans land. Furthermore, the center scramblers is not a hard one to achieve.

 

So, I'd say you're probably taking infiltrators for two reasons. Fill a troop choice, and deny deep strikes. Infiltrating with a unit that is 20% more in points that has worse shooting, and no CC options seems too situational. Are there strats specific to upping their damage?

 

For squad size. I would stick with 5 for greater denial area, to fill out troop slots, and to avoid blast damage.

 

Finally, you're in a Dark Angel's forum. You should run them as Dark Angel's. Any one suggesting otherwise is being watched.

[G8Keeper]

Casually hijacking my thread.. don't mind me, that's perfectly fine (!)

Come on bud we're all friends here.

 

The Helix adept seems to be being taken on the competitive side of things too, meaning it's probably a pretty efficient option. As valorous heart has mentioned, the body will be there in later phases and also to help with objectives at the end of the movement phase, useful when the been has obsec too and you have to outnumber them.

[Skywrath]

 

Casually hijacking my thread.. don't mind me, that's perfectly fine (!)

Come on bud we're all friends here.

The Helix adept seems to be being taken on the competitive side of things too, meaning it's probably a pretty efficient option. As valorous heart has mentioned, the body will be there in later phases and also to help with objectives at the end of the movement phase, useful when the been has obsec too and you have to outnumber them.

That we are, hence why I liked his response. Thanks for the response, looks like I'll be building 2 helix adepts. Is it worth magnetising their arms so you can use them as normal infiltrators if the occasion demands it?

Edited November 17, 2020 by Skywrath

[Berzul]

 

 

Casually hijacking my thread.. don't mind me, that's perfectly fine (!)

Come on bud we're all friends here.

The Helix adept seems to be being taken on the competitive side of things too, meaning it's probably a pretty efficient option. As valorous heart has mentioned, the body will be there in later phases and also to help with objectives at the end of the movement phase, useful when the been has obsec too and you have to outnumber them.

That we are, hence why I liked his response. Thanks for the response, looks like I'll be building 2 helix adepts. Is it worth magnetising their arms so you can use them as normal infiltrators if the occasion demands it?

 

You could just make them "counts as" when not using the helix.

[ValourousHeart]

 

 

 

The Helix gauntlet is an interesting one. If you have the points free, then it might be useful, but otherwise, 10points is a power fist on an Intercessor Sergeant. Bear in mind that with an Infiltrator squad, you should be making the most of cover anyway, and you can pop off the Smokescreen stratagem for a -1 to hit, or even Transhuman Physiology if you really want them to survive - for example you want them to perform an action in their next movement phase. 

 

Let's look at this another way - the helix gauntlet changed from a 5+ restore D3 wounds to reduce one attack to 0. I'm struggling to think of an example where that might be useful, can you provide one for me, in a Dark Angel faction specific sense? Like would that ability be useful for storm-bolters or heavier weapons such as plasma? Because as far as I am concerned that ability only applies to that unit, and not others.

 

In blue.

 

From Ritual of the Damned, the Helix could heal 1 wound of a damaged model from the unit or return 1 model to the unit with one wound.  That effect took place at the end of your movement phase.

 

Is that still the case, out of curiousity?

 

 

In blue.

 

In red.

 

I meant that in reference to the claim that the helix gauntlet restored D3 wounds on a 5+.  What you stated wasn't the rule previous to the new codex.  I think that might have been the rule in shadowspear, but we are long past that version.

 

 

 

If you feel that 5 man squads are good enough in all cases at your local club, then splitting the box and making 5 DA and 5 DW is a good way to save a little cash.

 

That being said, how many Infiltrator teams do Marines run? 2, I want to say, at a competitive level,for the deny?

In red.

 

I wouldn't really know, I don't set much stock in the tournament scene.  But I tend to seem more themes and redundancy in lists than I see highlander lists.

 

 

 

However what I think you leaning toward is the ability to swap which army you are playing.

This is easy or tricky depending upon how you painted the army.

I'm also interested in making a Deathwatch army but I'm not interested in buy additional bikes for Deathwatch over the bikes that I already have for Dark Angels.

I've used a custom color scheme for my DA and could easily just continue that color scheme for my Deathwatch, and then not have to buy duplicate marine boxes for both armies.

 

Very true. I'm wondering how I can play around that, because while all my DW units will have Dark Angel iconography on them, they will have the black/silver scheme. If the tournament is WYSIWYG then I'm not sure it will fly. So black of the Deathwatch, with the silver arm of the Deathwatch, while the right being the green of the Dark Angels. Casual sense - definitely, but tournament sense, not so much. That being said, I know certain units such as the Hellblasters pale in comparison to Inceptors (both of which I have in a unit of 10, and a unit of 6 ((Plasma)) respectively. Then there is the case of which Dark Angel units are not good for them, but good enough to be done with Deathwatch. Going back to the above example - I have 6 plasma inceptors and 10 hellblasters. Both in Dark Angel colors. Inceptors would probably be better for the Dark Angels rather than the Deathwatch (on the account of the Indomitor Kill Team eradicator preference). So then the question becomes how many hellblasters would my deathwatch need, and would I use them in the future (the answer to that is yes, due to the fortis KT). Then there is the matter of other units that can be good for both. I have about 9 Aggressors (boltstorm) and I can see them both working in both lists pretty well, perhaps slightly better in the DA ones due to the 4+ invuln provided by Azrael. But the flipside of that argument that they could very well be the next best thing in Indomitus KTs. Then apply that mentality to the vision of my Deathwatch being primaris only as a counterpart to my firstborn only GK, and you get the idea. Seeing the pattern?

In red.

 

I've never heard the WYSIWYG argument made against unit badges or what my shoulder pad icon looks like.  Sounds pretty toxic for a tournament to ban an Ultramarine army because they used Arabic numbers instead of Roman numerals, or worse yet putting the water slide transfers on upside down.  (Omega Marines)

 

Obviously for Deathwatch Veterans and Deathwatch Bike squads if they have non-standard weapons, won't be WYSIWYG for both armies.  But for TDA units and all of the Primaris options the models are the same, just organized into units differently.  So it really isn't any different than taking the lascannon marine that you used in your devistator squad last game and using it in your tactical squad this game.

 

Ultimately the question you need to address is if you are starting Deathwatch so that you can paint models a different color to your Dark Angels, and do you ever plan to run a soup list with Dark Angels and Deathwatch.

 

I wouldn't concern myself with what units are good at the moment for which army unless you are painting them different schemes.  If you like the unit, get it paint it to match your army and try it out with both codexes.  In the past Tactical Marines where the default troop choice for marines.  Then for a time there was FOC swapping options for armies and everyone experimented with what was unique to this or that chapter.  Most recently Scouts were the default choice.  Now we are moving to Intercessors.   Who knows what it will be 2 years from now.

 

 

 

Personally, I wonder whether it's worth buying extra parts, magnetising them, and doing two different schemes (two sets of arms in different colors - one for Dark Angels, one for Deathwatch. Alternatively, I could do what Gederas is doing and do my Dark Angels in those colors - that would probably work actually.

 

I find magnetising is not that useful in most situation for small infantry.  You'll end up spending a lot when you could have just bought a second box and have both options to use.