Chaos Space Marines using "marines"

[dice4thedicegod]

I'm not following how a LC is going to help a CSM champ out over a PF when SM dreads are becoming increasingly common than before. PF still would be the best choice on a regular CSM champ. I'm referring to multiple CF for terminators, PF is pointless there with the CF available.

With the minus one built in damage, fists and claws do the same damage per hit.

 

So fist = 3 attacks at 3/6 to hit, then 4/6 to damage, then ap-3 = average of 0.83 wounds

Claw = 4 attacks at 4/6 to hit, then 5/9 to damage, then ap-2= average of 0.99 wounds

[Gederas]

Still running into the issue of this:

Chaos Marines in melee against a Dreadnought are going to die like chumps. That Power Fist isn't going to help.

[Relentless]

Depends on the legion.  A 10-man squad of WE marines with chainswords and a PF could do it with a few strats and probably fighting twice.  Though I agree it's usually a bad idea to try it, especially while CSM are still at one wound

Edited December 4, 2020 by Relentless

[Doom Herald]

Against Power Armor Astartes:

 

> Power Fist: Hits (1/2), Wounds (5/6), Penetrates Armor (5/6) = 25/72 successful wounding @ D2 = .69 damage per attack.

 

> Lightning Claw: Hits: (2/3), Wounds (3/4, includes reroll), Penetrates Armor (2/3) = 1/3 successful wounding @ D1 = .33 damage per attack.

 

Assuming a CSM Champion and the +1 attack for charge/being charged, this is average of 2 wounds dealt by the fist and 1.3 dealt by the claw (including the extra attack) and 1.7 with 2 claws. Against 1 wound models, the claw does do slightly better though, 1 (fist) vs 1.3 (claw).

 

The Powerfist seems the superior option to me for troop CSM, atleast if you don't plan on using VotLW. On units with more attacks, the lightning claw becomes less attractive as 1 or 2 extra attacks is a smaller percentage increase on a unit with more base attacks.

 

Edit: the Powerfist weilder also can not have a further penalty to his hit rolls. He's already swinging at -1, so if a unit has -1 to being hit, the Powerfist takes no more penalty while the Lightning Claw would.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Doom Herald

[MasterDeath]

I think the best and final answer is: do not tackle dreads with csm squads Edited December 4, 2020 by MasterDeath

[Doom Herald]

I think the best and final answer is: do not tackle dreads with csm squads

Agreed. Blast them from a distance.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I think the best and final answer is: do not tackle dreads with csm squads

Seems obvious to me. I've been scratching my head wondering why this was a thing to talk about.

[Gederas]

I think the best and final answer is: do not tackle dreads with csm squads

Seems obvious to me. I've been scratching my head wondering why this was a thing to talk about.

Because MegaVolt87 decided to bring up Chaos Marine squads fighting Dreadnoughts in melee.

[MegaVolt87]

I bought it up because a fist will always beat LC on CSM troop champ. A PF will always have the best utility in that instance as a solo weapon. It's been that way for over twenty years and I don't see that changing.

[techsoldaten]

I used CSM throughout 8th edition.

 

Found 10-man units to be good as a heavy weapon squad with lots of ablative wounds.

 

In 9th, the improved weapon profiles are nice. But they're not going to be all that great without the extra wounds.

 

Like, 2 chaincannons, 3x chainswords, a plasma pistol / power weapon on the sarge, 2 wounds each - that squad could get some work done.

Edited December 17, 2020 by techsoldaten

[Sonoftherubric21]

I used CSM throughout 8th edition.

 

Found 10-man units to be good as a heavy weapon squad with lots of ablative wounds.

 

In 9th, the improved weapon profiles are nice. But they're not going to be all that great without the extra wounds.

 

Like, 2 chaincannons, 3x chainswords, a plasma pistol / power weapon on the sarge, 2 wounds each - that squad could get some work done.

 

Did you mean a 5 man squad? so 1x chain, 3x sword, and power wep/plasma pistol sarge? 

 

Or did you mean a 10 man, 2x chain, 4x bolter, 3x chainswords, and sarge? 

 

I could feasibly see 5 mans being pretty great, so I could agree with either! 

[techsoldaten]

 

I used CSM throughout 8th edition.

 

Found 10-man units to be good as a heavy weapon squad with lots of ablative wounds.

 

In 9th, the improved weapon profiles are nice. But they're not going to be all that great without the extra wounds.

 

Like, 2 chaincannons, 3x chainswords, a plasma pistol / power weapon on the sarge, 2 wounds each - that squad could get some work done.

 

Did you mean a 5 man squad? so 1x chain, 3x sword, and power wep/plasma pistol sarge? 

 

Or did you mean a 10 man, 2x chain, 4x bolter, 3x chainswords, and sarge? 

 

I could feasibly see 5 mans being pretty great, so I could agree with either! 

 

I suppose both would work.

 

The 10x squad has the edge because it would take longer to burn through wounds to get to a chaincannon.

 

I want to be clear: have not played a single game of 9th because of lockdowns. My advice may be suspect.