Questions regarding Nakrid Thole, new NL character

[Lautrec the Embraced]

I was going to give the new NL character Nakrid Thole a try but then got into conversation with a friend and we realized that we aren’t so sure how his power hatchet, the Devil’s Due, works.

 

1) The Devil’s Due has a unique rule that lets Thole (in correct circumstances) make an additional attack with it on Initiative 1.5. But can one use the hatchet as a regular weapon, striking as normal with all attacks on I1? I don’t see any explicit rules prohibiting that – the special rule of the hatchet, the Devils Due, only states how that extra attack works

 

2) What do you understand under ‘reduced to initiative 1’ mentioned in the Devils Due rule? Obviously it will be triggered by Thole’s whip (Electro-charge  ‘reduces [target’s] initiative to 1’). Concussive weapons have very similar rules. But what about Cumbersome or Unwieldy weapons – those make you fight at I1 if you choose to attack with them – so do they reduce your I to 1 implicitly, or is it just my wishful thinking... Similar thing could apply to frag-less units charging through difficult terrain.

 

Unlike my friend I’d be inclined to think that Unwieldy shouldn’t work on the Devils Due so I wanted to see how you fine folks understand this rule. Mind you, I don’t own the newest book so I might’ve missed some crucial information that would answer my question.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Lautrec the Embraced

[Aeternus]

So without a FAQ on the book I've seen people argue both ways on at least the first point there. I definitely think you can use the Devils Due as normal, since it's counted as a weapon under his wargear and the special rule only triggers when there's a certain situation, it doesn't state the weapon itself can only be used in that situation, just that it's a 'bonus action' imo.

 

Of course, I'm slightly biased by the fact that if it was meant to be triggered only if you got the whip off, that's just ridiculously weak - you're gambling on getting your hits off with the whip, then hoping there's a rend in there (a situation most NL are familiar with from ap3 sev days, exacerbated here with the ap4), hoping it wounds and is unsaved, and then if that all works you get the CHANCE to make a single attack with the actually alright melee weapon, which isn't even an automatic hit after that, and then you're again fishing for a 6 just to ID them. It's not a good hand to go all in on. So hopefully they didn't intend this, because apart from fringe narrative cases or times you're against SA/daemons/etc it's just obvious to use the axe so he can stand on equal ground with a typical combat praetor/centurion due to how many 'ifs' there are in triggering the succession of hits/rules to get a single attack with an ap2 weapon. 

 

I honestly hadn't considered the second point, and am unsure. The exact wording is 'has its initiative value reduced by the effects of any other weapon or special rule then...' so I guess unwieldy is a special rule, that reduces initiative to 1 for that attack, so...yes possibly? Honestly compared to the weakness if he could only use the whip usually, if he had the opportunity to hatchet everyone that tried to attack him with a unwieldy weapon at 1.5 just before they could, that'd be in the too strong category I think. All hail Nakrid Thole, bane of power fist terminator squads. So RAW yes, RAI maybe not, but who knows, because there's not going to be a FAQ for a while

Edited November 17, 2020 by Aeternus

[shang]

From my reading of the rules, its stated as wargear and has stats. Along with that it has a special rule "the devils due".

So it looks like it can be used as a regular melee weapon.

 

Using the whip looks like it triggers the special rule "the devils due".

[SkimaskMohawk]

Unwieldly completely procs his special attack instances. You pretty much never want to use the whip and always just attack his axe unless you're really surrounded.

 

Difficult terrain isn't a special rule or weapon effect, so it wouldn't work on that.