Can we talk about Eradicators?

[MegaVolt87]

They are going to wind up dead anyways, may as well grab the extra dmg output from 6 eradicators, make the play regardless. They are a very hail mary unit/ one way ticket peice in comparison to their peers who are better at 5 or fewer.

[Ishagu]

2x 3 MM Attack Bikes are better than 6 Eradicators.

 

Can target two units without halving their shots, can move faster, are more durable - especially as there are a lot more damage 3 weapons around.

Edited December 3, 2020 by Ishagu

[MegaVolt87]

Attack bikes have always been good regardless of edition. They have a much higher skill ceiling to use in comparison to eradicators. Having used them myself from 4-7 ed, they are also a very one way ticket unit for anti tank duty. Against players who know what they are doing, you need 4-6 MM attack bikes to make them work. Attack bikes in combination with eradicators is a stupidity powerful synergy. Attack bikes on their own are not invincible as you all are saying.

[Captain Idaho]

Dude, completely off-topic, but just sure your signature and wanted to say I love your video! (minus the metal introduction, but that is personal taste). Rock on dude!

 

Now, back to the topic at hand:

 

 

• Whilst I haven't I've played against dudes running 5-man squads of eradicators, I did play a game last week against I guy that ran two squads of 6.
• (a) If quad-las predators were a bit cheaper, I think people would consider running them and (b) even if they remained the same and got a 'stay still and you can shoot all your guns twice at the same target' rule, I think eradicators would have even more competition. 
• Point 2(b) above will never happen (re: see what happened to the repulsor executioner). 

Many thanks for compliment. Regarding the intro, I can confirm I am looking to get a proper intro sorted but need to find someone to do it for me!

 

***

 

I'd go cheaper Predators over letting them shoot twice, simply because folk will largely remain stationary and it becomes the default option.

 

I think the vehicles, particularly tanks in the Codex, suffer from a lack of Strategum support. Without that and the Core Keyword, their prices are inflated.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Attack bikes have always been good regardless of edition. They have a much higher skill ceiling to use in comparison to eradicators. Having used them myself from 4-7 ed, they are also a very one way ticket unit for anti tank duty. Against players who know what they are doing, you need 4-6 MM attack bikes to make them work. Attack bikes in combination with eradicators is a stupidity powerful synergy. Attack bikes on their own are not invincible as you all are saying.

Who's saying they're invincible? What I'm saying is looking at the data theres lists with eradicators, lists with attack bikes and lists with both getting in the top 4 of many tournaments.

 

And attack bikes have not "always been good regardless of edition" . They always compete with land speeders for the same role and often lose, especially in editions when ballpoint didn't exist and you could only glance when the target moved fast.

[MegaVolt87]

The data tells me is that the 9th ed SM dex is a sucessful design failure. Ok sure, landspeeders and attack bikes used to compete but now in comparison the MM attack bike and the MM ATV its no contest, ATV is wildly inefficient for AT, the SM codex is littered with more such examples of this internal balance disaster. Its definately the right ime to seperate SM into two codexes, OG marines and primaris marines to eliminate the cherry picking going on making the faction very over efficient and a chore to face against. That would leave SM a strong faction, not an over bearing one. Also open each of them up to their units that get shelved due to efficiency, like the MM ATV. It also becomes easier to drop points and stave off point increases if the amount of exesssive combo's/ interactions is reduced for SM. Also the flow on effect of allowing other factions to breathe again in the meta, because its not just SM in 40k. The problems of Eradicators are more to do with the flawed SM codex itself. Edited December 3, 2020 by MegaVolt87

[SkimaskMohawk]

What you just said literally has nothing to do with you trying to assert attack bikes weren't good and it was all eradicators. Or was it attack bikes were only scary when taken with eradicators? Or that attack bikes have always been good but aren't invincible? Idk, it keeps changing.

 

I think an argument for a seperate codex for primaris is pretty valid; theres far more units than say imperial knights, harlequins and custodes. Theres no longer any glaring holes in the range, though it does get awkward when you remember some special characters won't be able to be taken with the other version of the chapter.

 

But to your point of allowing other factions to breathe in the meta....they do. 40kstats asserts there's less marine lists at tournaments than is proportional to their books while goonhammer has 4 out of 7 tier one factions be non-marine. And the marine ones are ranked 4-6 under harlequins, daemon monster mash and sisters of battle.

[Debauchery101]

Fun fact I played a game vs a pre plandemic ranked Harlequins player...didn't use melta or Eradicators and I won with +19 points...hes notoriously the top player in our club because of the murder clowns...

 

I never know exactly what he's going to field..there isn't much variation obviously with that faction but he plays off meta and always has a unit that can slap down Eradicators. Its hard for them to ever get 2 rounds of full strength shooting.

 

Anyways point is...you dont need Eradicators they are very good and most enemies have, by now switched gears to deal with them.

 

1 unit I have yet to hear people whine about that are in my opinion better..is land speeder tempests. They shred bikers and infantry. Eradicators are nice but I've seen such a change in people's lists that they end up making Eradicators end up being rpgs shooting at cockroaches. There is at least 4 factions now with abilities to make some units untargetable if they have some screens. Which degrades the value of these guys. I see on average maybe 50% of players still fielding multiple t7-t8 units. If they do its probably stuff with invul saves.

 

Its the name of the game. People in competition see or use something that has a huge advantage...mostly due to opponents not factoring in the new spicy sauce...players spam that unit and burn it out. Opponents will create ways to counter effectively which is most often better for the game than nerfing what some people spam.

 

One thing for balance i think i could concede to is limit some units using Outflank..like gravis and centurions...or make it more expensive to use

Edited December 4, 2020 by Debauchery101

[Debauchery101]

I'll take 5 DW vets with 4 hvy bolters before I think about 3 Eradicators

Furthermore adding 5 stalker vets and taking them before I think about 6 Eradicators

[Ishagu]

I think we can all agree that Eradicators are very good. The same can be said for lots of other units running the MM following the profile update.

 

However we must also realise that they are a model that is readily available to a log of people, and is part of the most popular faction. For these reasons you are bound to see them a lot, which might skew your thinking that they are an over-powered must take.

 

The models are very nice, too. Their look on the tabletop is as much a reason to want to take them as anything.

[Karhedron]

The models are very nice, too. Their look on the tabletop is as much a reason to want to take them as anything.

They do at that. It is funny how just a bit of trimming back on the hood and gorget make them look so much better than Aggressors, despite both being in Gravis armour. Head-and-shoulders better, you might say. 

[Disruptor_fe404]

 

The models are very nice, too. Their look on the tabletop is as much a reason to want to take them as anything.

They do at that. It is funny how just a bit of trimming back on the hood and gorget make them look so much better than Aggressors, despite both being in Gravis armour. Head-and-shoulders better, you might say. 

 

 

IMO the actual belt helps too. Makes them look way less pot-bellied.