How to Select Chapter Tactics

[dogfender]

So they are UM successors, but get to select 2 chapter tactics?

I don’t think I understand how the supplements or chapter tactics work.

 

 

 

 

=][= Note =][=

 

This post was originally a reply in a discussion about the Tome Keepers, but this post veered off into a side issue worthy of wider discussion, so this post and the replies to it were split off into this separate discussion.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Brother Tyler
Note added

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Seems like nonsense to me tbh.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

So they are UM successors, but get to select 2 chapter tactics?

I don’t think I understand how the supplements or chapter tactics work.

You either are one of the chapters with named tactics. (The Big 9, BT, CF, Flesh Tearers or Deathwatch) in which case you get the relevant tactic listed on pages 94-95

 

Or, you are a successor chapter (minus, Flesh Tearers, Black Templars and Crimson Fists) and choose two of the tactics on pages 96 & 97.

 

The only exception is if you are a successor who selects the successor tactic Inheritor of the Primarch, in which case you choose to use the tactic of the first founding chapter.

[dogfender]

And in this case they Use the ultramarine commands n such but get to pick outside chapter tactics?

I thought if the chapter had a known successor they get defaulted to their tactics list.

 

This sounds like double dipping?

[Sword Brother Adelard]

No, that's how it works. Every SM army has access to chapter tactics, either one from the list of named 13, or any two from the successor list.

 

In addition, every chapter (bar BT) has access to the stratagems and relics of their parent first founding chapter.

 

So, the Tome Keepers have successor tactics, and access to the stratagems from the UM supplement. This is how every chapter works. Except BT which has its own, shorter, list of strats and cannot use IF ones, and Crimson Fists, who have access to all of the IF stuff, and three unique CF strats.

[dogfender]

Ahh okay. If you go unknown you use generic, whereas if you select successor of a known founding you use that supplements commands

[Gederas]

Ahh okay. If you go unknown you use generic, whereas if you select successor of a known founding you use that supplements commands

If you're an unknown founding, you can use whatever Supplement you want.

 

Though of course, this leads into some weird issues as GW has used this example in an article:

 

The right Chapter Tactic for the Fire Lords is an easy choice

Edited November 22, 2020 by Gederas

[Brother Tyler]

Note that I split this topic off from the discussion about the Tome Keepers (in the Ultramarines forum).

[Dracos]

Whew for a second I thought Gederas was needlessly confusing the original poster informational needs. Splitting threads always confuses me when I haven’t read the original.

[Riddlesworth]

So they are UM successors, but get to select 2 chapter tactics?

I don’t think I understand how the supplements or chapter tactics work.

Brother Adelard explained it well. I find its handy to hit the flowchart. If the answer to the question below isn't yes, move on to the next question:

 

- is your army purely <Supplement Chapter>?

You get everything in the <Supplement Chapter> book

 

- is your army purely a successor to <Supplement Chapter> (using the Successor rules from Codex:SM)?

You get everything in the <Supplement Chapter> book EXCEPT relics, which you have to spend CP on a stratagem to access (special issue gear is available as normal)

 

- is your army a soup list with a <Supplement Chapter> detachment?

You get <Supplement Chapter> stratagems, Librarians in that detachment can choose <Supplement Chapter> powers, if your warlord is <Supplement Chapter>, their warlord trait and relic can be from the <Supplement Chapter> book. Any uses of "hero of the Chapter" in this detachment may also choose from <Supplement Chapter> traits

 

- is your army a soup list with a <Supplement Chapter> successor detachment?

Same as above but have to use stratagem to access <Supplement Chapter> relic

 

- is your army a soup list with some <Supplement Chapter> or successor characters?

Characters given a warlord trait that have <Supplement Chapter> keyword can use <Supplement Chapter> warlord trait table and their relics can be from <Supplement Chapter> unless a successor, who only get warlord trait access

Edited November 22, 2020 by Riddlesworth

[TheNewman]

And here I was expecting a thread on how people go about picking successor chapter tactics.

[Riddlesworth]

And here I was expecting a thread on how people go about picking successor chapter tactics.

- build army with models i like

- see which supplement strats, relics, doctrine and traits suit them best

- does the primogenitar tactic give big benefits to EITHER the vast majority of the army OR the key linchpin pieces

- if no, what combo of successor tactics works best to fulfill one of the above conditions (assuming no named characters)

[jaxom]

Alternatively: identify playstyle you like and work from there.

[BitsHammer]

Alternatively: identify playstyle you like and work from there.

Or try and find rules and lore and models that all mesh together into a trifecta of perfection. Edited December 3, 2020 by Fulkes

[Xenith]

Glad to see some explanation, seeing the wording in the BA supplement has also helped, so to get this right:

 

1. I am a homebrew Blood Angels Successor.
2. I choose 2 chapter tactics from the SM codex, aside from Inheritors.
3. I am treated as having the BLOOD ANGELS keyword when it comes to BA Supplement stratagems, warlord traits, etc. 
4. I cannot take Blood Angels relics (unless via the stratagem), however I can take generic SM ones, or the special issue wargear. 
5. I can take Blood Angels Supplement units, like Death company, and have them with my chapter tactics. 

Is all of this legit?

[jaxom]

Big flowchart:

 

*If a supplement contains more than one Chapter then you must choose the First Founding Chapter's warlord traits.

 

EDIT: Fixed background color and made a bit more browser friendly.

Edited December 4, 2020 by jaxom

[Xenith]

Big flowchart:

 

*If a supplement contains more than one Chapter then you must choose the First Founding Chapter's warlord traits.

 

EDIT: Fixed background color and made a bit more browser friendly.

 

Nice work, but I think it's incorrect: Supplement BA says:

 

"All units from Blood Angels Successor Chapters are considered to have the BLOOD ANGELS keyword for the purpose of using Blood Angels Stratagems."

 

Sothe bottom rleft box on your chart should say use supplement stratagems also, right? Unsure if the wording is different for other supp's.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Xenith

[jaxom]

It should! I think I accidently deleted it when I realized I left out warlord traits the first time and went back in to edit it.

[Xenith]

Ok, awesome, this gives me a lot of room to play around with other traits and all the while keeping my BA goodies 

[Brother Casman]

Pretty cool flowchart, jaxom, but I'm confused by your "no" path towards the right side after "Do you want to use a First Founding Chapter's Chapter Tactic" - you've got two "no" branches, when there should only be one, I believe. Also, continuing down the right-hand side, should you choose "no" on the supplement specific rules, I believe you should end with "use the rules from C:SM".

[jaxom]

Brother Casman, that bit is circular. You can choose your two successor chapter tactics either before or after you decide if there's something of interest in a supplement and vice-versa. I've updated the flowchart based on the oopsies spotted and feedback.