Watch Fortress Structure After 9th Codex (Lore Discussion)

[Inquisitor Trinity]

So i'm wondering what everyone's thoughts are on this. In the previous codex we had the below structure.

 

 

As of 9th though we have a lot of additions so how do they fit into this? I'm quite annoyed they didn't give us an updated diagram. I've some ideas/questions i would like your thoughts on.

 

1) Lieutenants presumably go in the companies but how many? 1 per company? 2 seems excessive for only 4 squads.

 

2) In the recent book they suggested that there could be as many as 50 marines per company, do you think that means they now have 5 squads or that the squads have up to 12 marines sometimes?

 

3) For all the additions we got in the codex they are almost all fitted into the existing structure. The new kill teams fit in everything bar the bladeguard and suppressors, I wonder where those fit in? Just as a kill team or outside that somewhere?

 

4) All the other additions like vehicles and characters fit into the armoury or strategium respectively. However the command squad characters and company veterans are a little uncertain, i reckon the champions and ancients go in the strategium and "company veterans" are just a kill team with additional responsibilities. Rules wise company veterans and deathwatch veterans are more or less the same. Veteran intercessors are just...intercessors so they fit in i'd say. Really they should have been our basis for the fortis kill team.

 

5) kind of a sperate point but i wonder why we have access to the other terminator variants, given our deathwatch terminators give us the same or better. They didn't give us the regular bikers because our bikers were better.

 

6) Now that i think of it where do centurions go? The armoury or somewhere in the kill team structure? 

Edited November 22, 2020 by Of the night

[Closet Skeleton]

The Deathwatch RPG books (I've not read them) apparently give the Death Watch access to more standard vehicle support like landspeeders and predators so they might have more detail.

 

I'd expect watch companies to be less regular than always having 4 kill teams but that 50 could also include vehicle crews.

 

A real world platoon can be fifteen men commanded by a second-lieutenant so there's no reason why 2 lieutenants would be too many for a 40-50 man company.

[Debauchery101]

Well each watch fortress is its own 'chapter'

 

The companies are formed to spread out responsibility and command.

 

From all the other books and stories each fortress is given an amount of Marines needed. On top of that they get access most equipment a normal chapter has plus additional wargear.

Before missions the company or companies will draw weapons, equipment and vehicles they see fit. They will then form kill teams.

 

Unlike game play the Deathwatch will often stage gear loadouts for killteams to change up during a mission. They can teleport in a killteam for something like breaching a gate or destroying a power/comms installation with melta bombs. Teleport back to grab some more ammo and/or gear and then deep strike into their next objective.

 

a marine who can use a centurion, inceptor suit, ride a bike, operate an predator tank or fly a corvus will not just sit around until those things are needed. They can use anything and everything.

 

As for the LT thing...game implementation vs stories kinda makes things wierd. DW never had LTs because of their mission tactics that give them what an LT does. It makes complete sense a Captain has an XO to fill in when needed should he die or if the company needs to split up for parts of the mission so its not a sgt trying to command multiple teams.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Debauchery101

[Cleon]

My assumption was that each Watch Fortress effectively had 2-3 standard form Marine battle companies stood up from the Indominus chapters Guilliman tithed wholesale to the Deathwatch, then as those Marines gained experience they were formed into Primaris kill teams and the replacements took their place in the battle companies (I assume a recruitment station and reserve companies are held elsewhere to maintain the chapter strength).

 

Nothing I've seen in official background to support that, but it's the only way I can square off that Deathwatch now have access to enough bodies to use codex marine squads while also making the extra strength Guiliman gave them be sustainable, rather than a one off.

 

As for the Lts, I'd assume either they are in the Battle Companies, or each Watch Captain now has a second in command to ensure continuity of operations should the Captain be killed on a mission.

[Inquisitor Trinity]

I was thinking about this earlier and thought i'd revive the thread for more debate or for any new people to weigh in after about a year of change in the lore. In reference to my opening post (please check it for my thoughts) and with feedback from other people:

 

1) 2 lieutenants per company seems plausible but i think i'd still lean towards 1 per company, more to restrain myself from buying more than any other reason haha 

 

2) I feel that the whole "50 marines per watch company" thing was an oversight or a typo, just seems a bit out of synch with the lore

 

3) Still no idea where bladeguard or suppressors fit in to the structure. In my fortress i've just slotted the bladeguard into a slot on their own and the suppressors have joined a spectrus kill team (i've got a spreadsheet detailing all my guys and which squad they're in). GW really seems to have forgotten about the suppressors

 

4) I stand by the command elements like the champion and standard bearers just sort of floating in the strategium. Now we've seen the black templar box i'm certain we will get deathwatch veteran intercessors with our next codex (whenever that is) and they will be the basis of our fortis kill teams from then.

 

5) Access to non deathwatch terminators seems to be an oversight, probably be fixed eventually

 

6) Centurions are basically super power armou suits so i reckon they're just line infantry who suit up, i've included their numbers in a proteus kill team.

 

I've also got another question i've thought of since then

 

7) How many techmarines, chaplains, librarians and apothecaries do you think there are per fortress? I've been working with a rough rule of 1 per company so 5 per fortress. Techmarines are the only ones that seem to break that rule as they can pilot the vehicles, though not always. I've got 2 primaris, 2 regular, 1 on the thunderfire, 1 on the servo turret, a landspeeder pilot, rhino pilot and presumably a corvus blackstar pilot for a total of 9 or more! Where do they all come from haha

 

Please let me know any thoughts or comments you have, i'd like to get more opinions

[Smoke Frog]

 

I was thinking about this earlier and thought i'd revive the thread for more debate or for any new people to weigh in after about a year of change in the lore. In reference to my opening post (please check it for my thoughts) and with feedback from other people:

 

1) 2 lieutenants per company seems plausible but i think i'd still lean towards 1 per company, more to restrain myself from buying more than any other reason haha 

 

2) I feel that the whole "50 marines per watch company" thing was an oversight or a typo, just seems a bit out of synch with the lore

 

3) Still no idea where bladeguard or suppressors fit in to the structure. In my fortress i've just slotted the bladeguard into a slot on their own and the suppressors have joined a spectrus kill team (i've got a spreadsheet detailing all my guys and which squad they're in). GW really seems to have forgotten about the suppressors

 

4) I stand by the command elements like the champion and standard bearers just sort of floating in the strategium. Now we've seen the black templar box i'm certain we will get deathwatch veteran intercessors with our next codex (whenever that is) and they will be the basis of our fortis kill teams from then.

 

5) Access to non deathwatch terminators seems to be an oversight, probably be fixed eventually

 

6) Centurions are basically super power armou suits so i reckon they're just line infantry who suit up, i've included their numbers in a proteus kill team.

 

I've also got another question i've thought of since then

 

7) How many techmarines, chaplains, librarians and apothecaries do you think there are per fortress? I've been working with a rough rule of 1 per company so 5 per fortress. Techmarines are the only ones that seem to break that rule as they can pilot the vehicles, though not always. I've got 2 primaris, 2 regular, 1 on the thunderfire, 1 on the servo turret, a landspeeder pilot, rhino pilot and presumably a corvus blackstar pilot for a total of 9 or more! Where do they all come from haha

 

Please let me know any thoughts or comments you have, i'd like to get more opinions

 

 

I have been thinking along similar lines for my own watch fortress structure. My take on your points:

 

1) 2 LTs per company makes sense to me. It would also align perfectly with how the game allows you to take two LTs per single HQ slot.

 

2) If each company has up to 50 marines, I would see it as 40 of them are the dedicated kill teams, roughly 3-5 are company command and/or staff (maybe the champion or standard bearer) to go along with the captain and LTs. Maybe even a senior veteran sergeant? And the leftover could be attached auxiliaries (see #3)

 

3) I would love to see suppressors in the spectrus kill team, and bladeguard in some kind of melee-focused kill team. For the time being though I have my three suppressors as auxiliary specialists attached to my 4th company. I assume each watch company could have five or so marines attached in this way that fit or operate outside the normal kill-team structure; bladeguard could easily fit in this slot too.

 

Alternatively blade guard could fill a bodyguard role for the fortress watchmaster and be a seperate squad that report directly to him.

 

4) In my mind a company standard bearer or champion could easily be added to the individual watch companies, but if they were limited to one per watch fortress it would make sense for them to be just part of the strategium. 

 

I agree deathwatch veteran intercessors make a lot of sense!

 

5) Agreed. I would love to field some cataphracti terminators! Also considering getting some third-party saturnine ones too, might just sub those for whatever terminator variant GW has in the codex.

 

6) I originally had centurions down as auxiliaries attached to the line companies, but frankly it makes sense for them to just "suit up" as needed for an upcoming battle, this works too!

 

7) Great question on # of techmarines/chaplains/librarians/apothecaries. I was looking at the image for Talasa Prime for inspiration on this one:

 

 

According to this chart there are at least three librarians, three chaplains, and two venerable dreadnoughts attached to this watch fortress. So here are my thoughts:

 

Librarians: There are two Espitolaries listed here and one Space Wolf who probably has a different title. Since normally a Librarius would be staffed by librarians of many different ranks (Espistolary, Codicer, Lexicanum) this tells me that the three listed here are the preeminent Librarians attached to this watch fortress, and there are probably several more not displayed here. There may not be any Lexicanums (the lowest ranks, who may not be veteran enough to send to the Deathwatch) but I assume there are at least as many if not double the number of Codicers as there are Epistolaries. By this logic I am guessing Talasa Prime has three Epistolaries and six Codicers assigned to them. 

 

Chaplains: I am less sure about the total numbers here, as chaplain ranks also tend to be more nebulous. The chief chaplain for the watch fortress would likely take the title of "Master of Sanctity," but none are labelled as such for Talasa Prime. Same thing for the Reclusiarch, who takes care of the chapters Reclusiam (spelling?), but since Deathwatch fortresses normally have an individual chapel dedicated to every single chapter cult, I don't think this particular title would carry over to the Deathwatch. Other than this, normally there is at least one chaplain per battle company. For now I will guess Talasa Prime has at least one Master of Sanctity, likely the most senior chaplain assigned to the fortress (in this case I will assume it is Mordran of the Blood Angels) and minimum five other chaplains, one for each company. 

 

Dreadnoughts: up for debate, but since Talasa Prime lists only two Verenable Dreadnoughts, I will assume they only have those two assigned for their fortress. Who knows exactly how many others they may have stashed in the fortress...

 

Apothecaries: Not listed on Talasa Prime's diagram, but I am assuming there is one apothecary assigned to each of the five watch companies. There may also be a senior Chief Apothecary, bringing the total to six, but thats up for debate because unlike normal chapters all the gene-seed doesn't get collected into a single location and turned into new marines, rather it is sent back to the home chapter of the departed deathwatch brothers. A Chief Apothecary could possibly fill this role. I will assume Talasa Prime has six apothecaries, one per company and one chief. 

 

Techmarines: Like Brother of the Night has already stated, this is a weird one. The deathwatch is super well supplied by the mechanicus, so they got to have a ton of tech marines right? I haven't decided if each of my tanks will be piloted by a techmarine or not. I am going to assume Talasa Prime has at bare minimum three primary techmarines (just like what is displayed for the Librarians and Chaplains) with another six more junior techmarines in support, more than enough to cover down on all the watch companies. 

 

 

I really like how the heraldry of all the kill-team sergeants are listed out in the Talasa Prime image, but I wish the types of kill-teams were listed too! (proteus, spectrus, indomitor, etc). I am using this template to create one for my own watch fortress currently, when it is finalized I will post it up here too. 

[Smoke Frog]

After I made this post I realize I forgot about Judiciars.

 

Technically they are chaplains in training though right? Per the rules Deathwatch can have them... but then again all marines assigned to the deathwatch should be veterans?

[Charlo]

This is a really good question!

 

My guess would be that it's probably quite similar to the 8th edition image, but with the additional command hierarchy and armoured support fitting in much in the same way as other chapters.

 

Each Watch Fortress probably operates akin to a standard chapter.

[Closet Skeleton]

There's a Blood Claw in Kill Team Cassius so no, not all DW are veterans. I don't think the IF Devastator in Cassius KT is a veteran either and the Librarian is only a Codicier which is the second rank but still not a high one. In fact only 5 members of KT Cassius are of veteran rank, two are sergeants of regular squads but not specifically veteran sergeants and two are members of squads at the start of their chapter's advancement structure.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

I’ve been trying to figure this mess out myself these last few months.

with codex astartes chapters the force org is simple but DW seems to be closer to Black Templars in that each Watch Fortress is a mini chapter unto itself ranging from a few dozen to a few hundred but no confirmed number of how many Watch Fortresses are in operation.

1) In regards to lieutenants, how important are they when you have small companies and sergeants are proven line commanders in their own right,  I think it’s much more likely they reside within the Chapter Command itself along side the librarians and chaplains.

2) For squad size I still don’t think any would be above 10 but I can see squads regularly being under strength due to casualties and marines returning to their parent chapter, thus I think it’s common place for squads to support each other when required.

 

3) Some units have just not been thought out when added from a lore perspective for deathwatch, Not much to be said really.

 

4) I love the idea of each company having a banner, only issue I can see is how companies are organised.

they are set roughly between 4/5 squads but are their vanguard vets and terminators in every company, what about Primaris?

Due to not being able to mix kill teams like we used to their is allot of restrictions so I think it’s likely that you would have companies specialising in certain things but companies regularly seconding squads to each other as required.

With that I’m not sure a banner for each company would work.
 

5) Same as 3, just not thought out.

 

6) From a lore perspective centurion suits would go in the armoury and regular veteran brothers would wear the suits, same as an invictor warsuit I think.

 

 

The Deathwatch RPG books (I've not read them) apparently give the Death Watch access to more standard vehicle support like landspeeders and predators so they might have more detail.

 

I'd expect watch companies to be less regular than always having 4 kill teams but that 50 could also include vehicle crews.

 

A real world platoon can be fifteen men commanded by a second-lieutenant so there's no reason why 2 lieutenants would be too many for a 40-50 man company.

Im not sure tank crews would come under each company, I think they would be under the Armoury in such a small force.

 

 

 

I've also got another question i've thought of since then

 

7) How many techmarines, chaplains, librarians and apothecaries do you think there are per fortress? I've been working with a rough rule of 1 per company so 5 per fortress. Techmarines are the only ones that seem to break that rule as they can pilot the vehicles, though not always. I've got 2 primaris, 2 regular, 1 on the thunderfire, 1 on the servo turret, a landspeeder pilot, rhino pilot and presumably a corvus blackstar pilot for a total of 9 or more! Where do they all come from haha

 

Please let me know any thoughts or comments you have, i'd like to get more opinions

 

This is exactly why I think the crews much be with the tech marines in the armoury.

You can’t tie up a third of a company of space marines just to crew tanks, etc in a force numbering in the hundreds with half or less sized companies.

 

 

Taking all this into account I need to ask, how do you think DW companies are divided?

What types of marine in which company and if a mix how would they be split?

Smog Frogs example is great but it doesn’t say anything beyond kill team and in reality no one is going to want a watch fortress of the mess that is kill team Cassius. Lol

[Inquisitor Trinity]

I’ve been trying to figure this mess out myself these last few months.

with codex astartes chapters the force org is simple but DW seems to be closer to Black Templars in that each Watch Fortress is a mini chapter unto itself ranging from a few dozen to a few hundred but no confirmed number of how many Watch Fortresses are in operation.

1) In regards to lieutenants, how important are they when you have small companies and sergeants are proven line commanders in their own right,  I think it’s much more likely they reside within the Chapter Command itself along side the librarians and chaplains.

2) For squad size I still don’t think any would be above 10 but I can see squads regularly being under strength due to casualties and marines returning to their parent chapter, thus I think it’s common place for squads to support each other when required.

 

3) Some units have just not been thought out when added from a lore perspective for deathwatch, Not much to be said really.

 

4) I love the idea of each company having a banner, only issue I can see is how companies are organised.

they are set roughly between 4/5 squads but are their vanguard vets and terminators in every company, what about Primaris?

Due to not being able to mix kill teams like we used to their is allot of restrictions so I think it’s likely that you would have companies specialising in certain things but companies regularly seconding squads to each other as required.

With that I’m not sure a banner for each company would work.

 

5) Same as 3, just not thought out.

 

6) From a lore perspective centurion suits would go in the armoury and regular veteran brothers would wear the suits, same as an invictor warsuit I think.

 

 

The Deathwatch RPG books (I've not read them) apparently give the Death Watch access to more standard vehicle support like landspeeders and predators so they might have more detail.

 

I'd expect watch companies to be less regular than always having 4 kill teams but that 50 could also include vehicle crews.

 

A real world platoon can be fifteen men commanded by a second-lieutenant so there's no reason why 2 lieutenants would be too many for a 40-50 man company.

Im not sure tank crews would come under each company, I think they would be under the Armoury in such a small force.

 

 

 

I've also got another question i've thought of since then

 

7) How many techmarines, chaplains, librarians and apothecaries do you think there are per fortress? I've been working with a rough rule of 1 per company so 5 per fortress. Techmarines are the only ones that seem to break that rule as they can pilot the vehicles, though not always. I've got 2 primaris, 2 regular, 1 on the thunderfire, 1 on the servo turret, a landspeeder pilot, rhino pilot and presumably a corvus blackstar pilot for a total of 9 or more! Where do they all come from haha

 

Please let me know any thoughts or comments you have, i'd like to get more opinions

 

This is exactly why I think the crews much be with the tech marines in the armoury.

You can’t tie up a third of a company of space marines just to crew tanks, etc in a force numbering in the hundreds with half or less sized companies.

 

 

Taking all this into account I need to ask, how do you think DW companies are divided?

What types of marine in which company and if a mix how would they be split?

Smog Frogs example is great but it doesn’t say anything beyond kill team and in reality no one is going to want a watch fortress of the mess that is kill team Cassius. Lol

 

Great answers, i'm with you on vehicle crews being in the armoury, and i reckon firstborn just suit up in centurion suits as needed. Definitely agree that squad size wouldn't go above 10 so i don't know where they are getting 50 marines per company from. Banners i just can't see being one per company given how small the companies are, i imagine the only drag the banner out when the entire fortress deploys in one battle.

 

As for squad divisions within a company from a lore perspective i'm quite certain that the marines just turn up and are allowed to take whichever wargear they feel like from the armoury or use what they brought from their home chapters. It's whatever best suits their skills, if they're better at close combat they grab a jump pack and a chainsword, prefer heavy weapons they grab a missile launcher ect. Sergeants, captains and watch masters will certainly dictate loadouts when the mission calls for it though, if fast moving is needed they'll tell them all to grab bikes rather than letting them grab terminator plate haha. The deathwatch are the epitome of the swiss army knife and will adapt to whatever the hell they need for a given situation. They won't be hidebound into specific squad designations like a regular chapter. 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

 

I’ve been trying to figure this mess out myself these last few months.

with codex astartes chapters the force org is simple but DW seems to be closer to Black Templars in that each Watch Fortress is a mini chapter unto itself ranging from a few dozen to a few hundred but no confirmed number of how many Watch Fortresses are in operation.

1) In regards to lieutenants, how important are they when you have small companies and sergeants are proven line commanders in their own right,  I think it’s much more likely they reside within the Chapter Command itself along side the librarians and chaplains.

2) For squad size I still don’t think any would be above 10 but I can see squads regularly being under strength due to casualties and marines returning to their parent chapter, thus I think it’s common place for squads to support each other when required.

 

3) Some units have just not been thought out when added from a lore perspective for deathwatch, Not much to be said really.

 

4) I love the idea of each company having a banner, only issue I can see is how companies are organised.

they are set roughly between 4/5 squads but are their vanguard vets and terminators in every company, what about Primaris?

Due to not being able to mix kill teams like we used to their is allot of restrictions so I think it’s likely that you would have companies specialising in certain things but companies regularly seconding squads to each other as required.

With that I’m not sure a banner for each company would work.

 

5) Same as 3, just not thought out.

 

6) From a lore perspective centurion suits would go in the armoury and regular veteran brothers would wear the suits, same as an invictor warsuit I think.

 

 

The Deathwatch RPG books (I've not read them) apparently give the Death Watch access to more standard vehicle support like landspeeders and predators so they might have more detail.

 

I'd expect watch companies to be less regular than always having 4 kill teams but that 50 could also include vehicle crews.

 

A real world platoon can be fifteen men commanded by a second-lieutenant so there's no reason why 2 lieutenants would be too many for a 40-50 man company.

Im not sure tank crews would come under each company, I think they would be under the Armoury in such a small force.

 

 

 

I've also got another question i've thought of since then

 

7) How many techmarines, chaplains, librarians and apothecaries do you think there are per fortress? I've been working with a rough rule of 1 per company so 5 per fortress. Techmarines are the only ones that seem to break that rule as they can pilot the vehicles, though not always. I've got 2 primaris, 2 regular, 1 on the thunderfire, 1 on the servo turret, a landspeeder pilot, rhino pilot and presumably a corvus blackstar pilot for a total of 9 or more! Where do they all come from haha

 

Please let me know any thoughts or comments you have, i'd like to get more opinions

 

This is exactly why I think the crews much be with the tech marines in the armoury.

You can’t tie up a third of a company of space marines just to crew tanks, etc in a force numbering in the hundreds with half or less sized companies.

 

 

Taking all this into account I need to ask, how do you think DW companies are divided?

What types of marine in which company and if a mix how would they be split?

Smog Frogs example is great but it doesn’t say anything beyond kill team and in reality no one is going to want a watch fortress of the mess that is kill team Cassius. Lol

 

Great answers, i'm with you on vehicle crews being in the armoury, and i reckon firstborn just suit up in centurion suits as needed. Definitely agree that squad size wouldn't go above 10 so i don't know where they are getting 50 marines per company from. Banners i just can't see being one per company given how small the companies are, i imagine the only drag the banner out when the entire fortress deploys in one battle.

 

As for squad divisions within a company from a lore perspective i'm quite certain that the marines just turn up and are allowed to take whichever wargear they feel like from the armoury or use what they brought from their home chapters. It's whatever best suits their skills, if they're better at close combat they grab a jump pack and a chainsword, prefer heavy weapons they grab a missile launcher ect. Sergeants, captains and watch masters will certainly dictate loadouts when the mission calls for it though, if fast moving is needed they'll tell them all to grab bikes rather than letting them grab terminator plate haha. The deathwatch are the epitome of the swiss army knife and will adapt to whatever the hell they need for a given situation. They won't be hidebound into specific squad designations like a regular chapter. 

 

Makes sense that they would have their own dedicated armoury due to some of the weapons they used being highly specialised or converted from sanctified xeno tech.

We all know about the aquired “necron xenophase blade” but in the 9th edition codex it also shows repurposed tau weaponry an£ even a detection drone made from tech and a eldar head/brain like what we see trying to keep the human element in our tech to avoid AI.

Considering this I think it’s likely there are quite a few off the books mechanicum and inquisitorial staff within the armouries also.

 

Banners in chapter companies exist, just doesn’t work for DW due to limited size but also we are meant to be small precision forces in the lore working fast and secretively allot like black ops, I don’t think they would wave a banner around unless deploying in serious force, such as hive fleet splinter, ork warrrrgh, etc.

 

 

Squad divisions I just can’t work out.

it makes sense that brothers would arrive in what they are wearing and due to brothers not really being seconded when interned in dreadnoughts (having a warrior dread in stasis just to be awakened in a different chapter and paint scheme seems unlikely as dreadnoughts are often kept in stasis unlike in the heresy when they would command and advise brothers even when not in combat traveling to new systems) therefore it makes sense considering the monopoly on mk8 errant armour that the fortress has its own stock of invictor warsuits, terminator armour, dread, etc but would only likely have few pre heresy tech pieces that have been recovered, I don’t see any of the first founding chapters giving up leviathans for instance.

 

This does mean from a lore perspective though that brother example who likes to use a heavy Bolter would have a second model of him in a centurion heavy Bolter warsuit as it matches his specialisation depending on the mission.

 

I agree they will not limit themselves to fixing roles on brothers but I would think that marines such as blood angels who may prefer assault roles would be standardised to use a jump pack but would be able to operate without if need farther than forcing the brother into a role he is less specialised in until required.

From kill team Cassius it displays this but in a terrible way which in practical gaming makes the squad expensive and good at nothing in particular.

 

I think I will have to separate the companies by loadout, due to not being able to mix as before it’s unavoidable, personally I think Primaris should just be able to mix in, no army is going to segregate its troops… apart from the flesh tearers but that’s because they don’t trust new brothers who do not experience things like they do.

[Jareddm]

I figured I'd chime in as someone who does not have a Deathwatch army, but who has read extensively the Deathwatch RPG supplement material.  Personally, I prefer the way the RPG kill-teams are laid out, even if it's not borne out on the tabletop.  In it, apothecaries, techmarines, and regular librarians are directly integrated into Kill-Teams, rather than being part of a pool like the Librarius or Apothecarion.  There are still Epistolaries and Chief Apothecaries per Watch Fortress but they serve command roles similar to how the codex presents them.

 

Chaplains are separated off  because of the more specialized training and responsibilities Deathwatch chaplains have to complete.  This assumes they are becoming specifically Deathwatch Chaplains, which is a permanent posting.  Chaplains just serving a vigil in the Deathwatch are not the same thing as a Deathwatch Chaplain, and are instead assigned to a single Kill-Team like other specialists listed above.  There is also a special rank, known as Keepers, who are assigned to guard specific secrets or relics tied to a particular Watch Fortress.  They might be assigned to Kill-Teams as needed.

 

Vehicle crews are also not a thing.  They are either part of the existing Kill-Team or a second Kill-Team serving as support.  Though when it comes to vehicle availability, if it's in a chapter, a Watch Fortress might have it.  Doesn't mean all Watch Fortresses would, but in addition to the regular production tithes the Deathwatch provides, individual Watch Fortresses might have stronger ties with certain chapters, allowing them access to something like a Baal-pattern Predator or a Dark Talon.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

I figured I'd chime in as someone who does not have a Deathwatch army, but who has read extensively the Deathwatch RPG supplement material.  Personally, I prefer the way the RPG kill-teams are laid out, even if it's not borne out on the tabletop.  In it, apothecaries, techmarines, and regular librarians are directly integrated into Kill-Teams, rather than being part of a pool like the Librarius or Apothecarion.  There are still Epistolaries and Chief Apothecaries per Watch Fortress but they serve command roles similar to how the codex presents them.

 

Chaplains are separated off  because of the more specialized training and responsibilities Deathwatch chaplains have to complete.  This assumes they are becoming specifically Deathwatch Chaplains, which is a permanent posting.  Chaplains just serving a vigil in the Deathwatch are not the same thing as a Deathwatch Chaplain, and are instead assigned to a single Kill-Team like other specialists listed above.  There is also a special rank, known as Keepers, who are assigned to guard specific secrets or relics tied to a particular Watch Fortress.  They might be assigned to Kill-Teams as needed.

 

Vehicle crews are also not a thing.  They are either part of the existing Kill-Team or a second Kill-Team serving as support.  Though when it comes to vehicle availability, if it's in a chapter, a Watch Fortress might have it.  Doesn't mean all Watch Fortresses would, but in addition to the regular production tithes the Deathwatch provides, individual Watch Fortresses might have stronger ties with certain chapters, allowing them access to something like a Baal-pattern Predator or a Dark Talon.

 

Problem is transferring the RP to tabletop, I used to play allot of them myself and was a big dark heresy buff.

Though kill teams in the RP are more fluid, this is because they are normally on deployment in the force they have been sent in and not the watch fortress lay out itself but with each fortress being a mini chapter (which is why no chapter master) there are liberties taken depending on requirements and location of the watch fortress.

 

Im still trying to puzel over the apothecarium, as DW don’t make their own marines it’s going to be mostly healing and gene seed collection but how large a part of the fortress would this be and being linked with the inquisition and ancient/sanctified xeno tech would they be linked with the armoury and perhaps have mechanicum involvement.

 

I understand the extra training chaplains would have because their chapter Chaplin training would likely not cross over great with the DW, for example a blood angels chaplain, that said it’s not W perma posting as Chaplain Cassius returning to the ultra marines contradicts that, it may be the old lore but the old lore predates the force being a playable army by 15 years or more so some things have been updated and retconed, would love to see kill marines being an option but unlikely.

 

In chapters companies marines would work as the crews but in a half strength company and in some cases piloting aircraft not seen in any other chapter so I’m inclined to believe they are kept separate from other squads but regularly support those squads, for example a 10 man kill team may be in a rhino or corvus with Dave driving, they squad isn’t going to deploy under strength and if part of a larger deployment you can’t tell me each squad has a designated driver, it’s one of those weird assumed postings.

With the inquisition links however I don’t think they would struggle to get hold of some rare and unknown tech but with chapter locked ones probably unlikely.

[Jareddm]

 

Problem is transferring the RP to tabletop, I used to play allot of them myself and was a big dark heresy buff.

Though kill teams in the RP are more fluid, this is because they are normally on deployment in the force they have been sent in and not the watch fortress lay out itself but with each fortress being a mini chapter (which is why no chapter master) there are liberties taken depending on requirements and location of the watch fortress.

 

I would call Watch Masters a direct equivalent to Chapter Masters.

 

Im still trying to puzel over the apothecarium, as DW don’t make their own marines it’s going to be mostly healing and gene seed collection but how large a part of the fortress would this be and being linked with the inquisition and ancient/sanctified xeno tech would they be linked with the armoury and perhaps have mechanicum involvement.

 

Apothecaries serve in the vivisection and dissection of xenos captives and corpses, as well as the making of chemical and biological agents used against specific xenos targets.  This is likely where their primary focus within a Watch Fortress would be, outside of healing.

 

I understand the extra training chaplains would have because their chapter Chaplin training would likely not cross over great with the DW, for example a blood angels chaplain, that said it’s not W perma posting as Chaplain Cassius returning to the ultra marines contradicts that, it may be the old lore but the old lore predates the force being a playable army by 15 years or more so some things have been updated and retconed, would love to see kill marines being an option but unlikely.

 

That's why I was explicit to separate Deathwatch Chaplains, like Titus Strome, from Chaplains serving in the Deathwatch, like Cassius.  The former are internally trained and permanent.  The latter are not.

 

In chapters companies marines would work as the crews but in a half strength company and in some cases piloting aircraft not seen in any other chapter so I’m inclined to believe they are kept separate from other squads but regularly support those squads, for example a 10 man kill team may be in a rhino or corvus with Dave driving, they squad isn’t going to deploy under strength and if part of a larger deployment you can’t tell me each squad has a designated driver, it’s one of those weird assumed postings.

With the inquisition links however I don’t think they would struggle to get hold of some rare and unknown tech but with chapter locked ones probably unlikely.

 

I have no idea what you're even saying here.  In regular chapters, it is the reserve companies who act as drivers and pilots when they're not attached as infantry.  Individuals like 10 man kill-teams absolutely could have a designated driver to reach a location, who would most likely get out upon entering the battle. Most astartes vehicles are capable of automated fire and movement over short periods of time.

 

The Deathwatch is not subservient to the Inquisition, they are an ally.  They would have their own relations with other chapters and members of those chapter serving in the Deathwatch's command structure.  I see no reasons such chapters would not gift unique vehicles for the Deathwatch's service.  All in the Deathwatch take the same oath of secrecy.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Jareddm

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Watch Masters are equivalent to chapter masters but a watch fortress is not chapter sized, codex compliant or limited to one watch master, very much similar but different. 
 

Good point on the apothecaries, I forgot they were much more involved in the understanding of other races compared to other chapters and would likely be involved in weapon development.

 

I understand the difference perfectly but that would not explain Chaplain Cassius, as recruits to the DW do not retain any prior rank and must be promoted within the DW, however Cassius was a chaplain in the DW also which shows he underwent said training, promotion and then still left.

Cassius was serving in the role of Chaplain when he left the DW which means he was a Deathwatch Chaplain.

It’s very simple.

Each codex compliant chapter has 10 companies of 100 marines and have their vehicals normally crewed by marines of said company.

DW is not codex compliant and has companies of 40 marines in the last lore update in 8th edition watch fortress force organisation before the adding of Primaris to their ranks.

Due to the much limited manpower of a 200’ish man chapter/watch fortress I don’t see it being viable to run your vehical crew from the kill teams without reducing their ability to fight.

Not reliable piloting turning over control to a servitors and with the rare tech often employed I don’t see it being risked, from a novel perspective also I don’t believe I Have ever witnessed this.

Moving to the reserve companies though, this is not something a Watch Fortress has so the question is, is it likely the crews are attached to the armoury in a support role or are they somewhere else?

 

I never Claimed DW are subservient to the inquisition however they are the military arm of the ordo Xenos and have very close ties, allot more than any other kind of marine chapter/organisation much like Grey Knights with the ordo Malleus and Sisters and Hereticus.

Being close to the inquisition provides benefits such as rare tech, other toys and allot more liberties.

Rare units like leviathans maybe but highly unlikely due to their rarity and being seen as walking relics by the chapters that have them unless reclaimed, things like the Baal predator no, the BA won’t even give up the stc to the mechanicum, they are not going to start loaning them out, nephilim from DA? No chance, they are the most secretive of chapters and their entire promotion structure is ran by a new lie with each rank until in the inner circle.

Each chapter would of course be different on a case by case basis.

[Smoke Frog]

So here is what I came up with for my watch fortress:

 

 

Watch Fortress Sentinel IX has four companies instead of the standard five. Each company has four kill teams of ten marines (when at full strength) plus a squad of auxiliary marines of three-to-ten marines. Auxiliaries include such marines as my suppressors that I have currently painted up. Companies have one captain and two lieutenants apiece. 

 

Each company also has one apothecary assigned to them, while the Librarium, Reclusiam, and Techmarine corps are held separate but often individuals can move to support kill team missions on an as-needed basis. 

 

As a bonus I also have the fortress command element laid out with a few groups that I didn't find a specific place for in the overall structure:

 

 

Specifically the bottom row includes the Deputy Watchmaster, the second-in-command of the overall fortress who fulfills the role of commander when the actual Watchmaster is away. Also included is the sergeant in charge of the Watchmaster's personal guard, along with the fortress Champion and standard bearer. 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Smoke Frog