Aggressors or terminators for anti-necron duties?

[XeonDragon]

Question for the wise heads out there....

 

I am facing a necron army. No idea what my mate will be brining other than it will be necrons. 1k match, part of a tournament.  The rest of my list is sorted except for one elite slot. I am tossing up between a 5-man squad of boltstorm aggressor (225 points) or a 5-man terminator squad with a cyclone missile launcher (215 points), 2 power fists, 2 chain fists.

 

What would you take and why?

 

Is the extra low-AP d1 firepower of the aggressors worth it, or is the invulnerable save of the terminators more valuable against necrons?

 

Rest of my list includes a squad of 3 eradicators in the list, a smash chappy, a lieutenant with teeth of terra, two squads of tactical marines with grav cannon and amp, chains words on the sergeants, 1 with a storm bolter, 1 with combi-plasma, 1 intercessor squad (assault bolters) with grenade launcher and chains word on sergeant and a squad of grav devastators (combi plasma on the sergeant).

 

[Captain Idaho]

I'd go with the Terminators. They can teleport to battle, plus 2+ armour saves and an Invulnerable save is very effective with 3 wound models.

 

Aggressors of course get access to Transhuman Physiology, but that has lost some utility because of toughness 5 generally being wounded on a 3+ at best against most targets. Still good, though it's not better than having a 2+ save and Invulnerable, being able to teleport where needed instead of slowly marching up the table are all reasons to go with Terminators.

 

Plus, Terminators.

[Debauchery101]

First id ask... what chapter are you bringing?

 

If dark angels, deathwatch or imp/crimson fists...terminators

 

because they can use strats and have chapter tactics and unique options to enhance terminators

 

Salamanders, wolves, raven guard, ultramarines make better use of aggressors.

 

One thing ive been trying to coach people on and base my strategy on for lists is to look at firstborn vs primaris options as ..

Spend points on them to be good and

Spend CP them to be good.

 

First born have the most options to tailor make their units from their datasheets

 

Most primaris units fill a specific role and can use the best strats for durability and extra damage output

 

Side note...if you choose deathwatch and make a proteus killteam You can give the team a specialization. Then combat squad the terminators

The xenos fighters and a specialization when both unit target types are the same let's you reroll all wounds.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Debauchery101

[XeonDragon]

I'm going a raven gaurd successor with bolter fusillade, whirlwind of rage to give army wide boost to bolter weapons (so applicable to both terminators and aggressors) and melee.

 

I'm leaning slightly towards terminators, if for no other reason than the 5++ save might come in handy + teleport deep strike. That said... last time I played necrons I learnt the hard way that you need to kill an entire unit in one go, so aggressors are looking better for that.  

[tychobi]

If you get em cheap the termies win due to deep strike versatility and range. If you are buying new the aggressors have a more attractive shelf life and pair better with a medic.

[Dracos]

Note to self: send the Xenodragons a crate of plasma exterminators ;)

 

 

At the moment Terminators seem to have the edge on Aggressors. Especially at the 1k range. Save CP and points.

 

XD hit me up in the a Ravenspire. I’d like to see what you have to work with and with a total lack of humility offers some thoughts on your future projects.

 

Only if your really wanting to get competitive though.

 

I imagine you guys are going to have a good time. I love how 1000 point games challenge our armies. Absolutely no room for fat on the bone or mistakes in the field. :)

[Debauchery101]

I'm going a raven gaurd successor with bolter fusillade, whirlwind of rage to give army wide boost to bolter weapons (so applicable to both terminators and aggressors) and melee.

 

I'm leaning slightly towards terminators, if for no other reason than the 5++ save might come in handy + teleport deep strike. That said... last time I played necrons I learnt the hard way that you need to kill an entire unit in one go, so aggressors are looking better for that.

if you think you'll go heads with 20 man warriors and lots of scarabs aggressors definitely can handle that

10 man intercessors squads and rapid fire rip stuff up as well.

 

If youre going to be using the same succesor chapter tactics for each match those are good together. Especially if you arent planning on having a captain nearby your squads.

 

The Crimson fists tactics definitely seem to be something you might want to consider as well. A 5 man aggro or terminator squad will most likely always trigger both parts of their tactics.

[XeonDragon]

 

I'm going a raven gaurd successor with bolter fusillade, whirlwind of rage to give army wide boost to bolter weapons (so applicable to both terminators and aggressors) and melee.

 

I'm leaning slightly towards terminators, if for no other reason than the 5++ save might come in handy + teleport deep strike. That said... last time I played necrons I learnt the hard way that you need to kill an entire unit in one go, so aggressors are looking better for that.

if you think you'll go heads with 20 man warriors and lots of scarabs aggressors definitely can handle that

10 man intercessors squads and rapid fire rip stuff up as well.

 

If youre going to be using the same succesor chapter tactics for each match those are good together. Especially if you arent planning on having a captain nearby your squads.

 

The Crimson fists tactics definitely seem to be something you might want to consider as well. A 5 man aggro or terminator squad will most likely always trigger both parts of their tactics.

 

 

I'm taking bolter fusillades and whirlwind of rage this time around. No captain this time. Running a smash chappy (master of sanctity) to amp melee, plus a lieutenant with teeth of terra, hero of chapter (swift and deadly) so my aggressor or terminators can charge after they advance. I suppose, given that aggressor can advance and shoot, that might lend itself more towards aggressors. Then again... in my experience terminators are just more durable, period.

[Mandragola]

You’re choosing between having much better damage output with the aggressors vs better saves for terminators. Note that necron warriors attack at S4 so the aggressors’ better toughness could be pretty relevant.

 

Personally I like aggressors but they’re both good units.

[Volt]

The main use here is mobility, because up against Necrons the key is dismantling their special characters and aura units similar to a Tyranids army. Attacking Necrons by merely dumping fire into the troops is a waste of points and doing exactly what the player wants, as Reanimation Protocols benefit one wound troops the best. If you want to make him cry uncle or generally screw up his battle plan - toss those terminators come turn 2 at a critical HQ/Elite character or aura buff source and knock it out, or at least force him to blow a bunch of resources to keep it alive.

[Dracos]

All good stuff from Volt

 

That’s pretty much what I did with my Necron opponent last month. I used 5 Aggressors and struck from the Shadows with a Primaris Chaplain riding shotgun. Buff the to wound shooting and buff the charge. Used Blade of the Raven when 7 inches or farther away. Ignored his Warriors for the most part. Those guys just are too durable for their points being ObSec imo. Watch out for the plasma character. He’s sinfully deadly. Answer to that was Exterminators for me. Aggressors blew his buddies apart and charged some immortals. Snipers finished him off while Chaplin charged a Warden?

[Riddlesworth]

I ran bolter fusilades and whirlwind of rage for most of the 8.5 book with 2 full units of aggressors. It was an excellent combo for them and even with their nerfs it still is (id put the white scars CT higher right now, personally).

 

They take character support really well, +hit and wound chaplain, fortress libby or selfless healer apothecary are excellent picks to back them up. Swift and deadly is icing on the cake.

 

In this case though, it really depends on what role you envision for them. In the list you describe, you're going to spend CP to create pressure as you have minimal speed and deep strike, so terminators may ease that burden somewhat

[XeonDragon]

Thanks all for your excellent suggestions. So, as it was with my mate, it was more relaxed than other tournament games. He didn't have any big nasty necron vehicles, so I went with the Aggressors.

 

I lost 57-38 (no painting points), but that was an improvement from the last time we played (where I lost by almost 40 points!).

 

As with many games, a few tiny things different could have swayed the result. When the game ended, I had one unit 3.25 inches from an objective – that ¼ of an inch would have meant an extra 15 VP from primaries for me, (53) and another 2 from a  secondary objective (55). If I had managed not to roll four 1s in a melee with a stubborn necron unit with my smash chappy in the second last round, I would have scored attrition that round. So, it was close.

 

My plan was to take down his warrior units first, secure objectives, then, if I had spare units not sitting or contesting objectives, deal with any other threats. It didn’t turn out that way! He went first, and along with aggressive deployment he had a strat that allowed his entire army to move before the first round. That meant he got onto 3 of the 4 objectives by the end of his first movement phase. So, from there it was about clearing objectives.

 

We had a really good debrief after the game. He is an experienced marine (Raven Guard) player and his analysis was that if I had used MOA to put my aggressors in the centre of the board, or near his deployment zone I probably would have gotten onto other objectives and held them long enough to win. He thought the terminators would have “struggled for longer” doing the same as the Aggressors but “it would have tied me up for longer trying to clear them”.

 

So, this is what I learnt:

1. It was a mistake not to take MOA. I didn't end up using swift and deadly, so I wasted a CP on hero of the chapter on the lieutenant to give him that trait. If I am going to not take MOA, I should take Terminators for the teleport ability instead.
2. Starting Eradicators on the board with careful positioning can work really well.
3. Grav devastators are awesome, even on the move.
4. Smash chappy is awesome, but maybe too much of a CP investment. The Teeth of Terra relic is just an amazing, no matter who you put it on.
5. Aggressors did amazing amount of damage, but even with help from other units I struggled to get rid of his warriors.
6. In hindsight, having the ability to deep strike a unit via teleport (Terminators) or MOA (Aggressors) would have helped me put pressure on the objective in his deployment zone, which only had 10 warriors guarding it. That would have meant he would have had to deal with that threat, instead of clogging up two of the objectives closest to me and bogging me down.
7. Tactical marine squads with a grav cannon, combi plasma and chain sword wielding sergeant are awesome all-rounder units.
8. Bolter fusillades and whirlwind of rage provide great all-round army-wide buffs, and synergise well with Raven Guard.

Edited November 24, 2020 by XeonDragon

[Debauchery101]

Raven guard is a finesse faction. I use a lot of phobos/omni scramblers for pre game area denial and lord of Deceit to then shift those units as needed pre game. It frustrates people when done right and will give you more options. Edited November 25, 2020 by Debauchery101

[Metzombie]

 

that ¼ of an inch would have meant an extra 15 VP from primaries for me

How do you get 15 VP from a single objective?

[XeonDragon]

 

 

that ¼ of an inch would have meant an extra 15 VP from primaries for me

How do you get 15 VP from a single objective?

 

 

Not 15 from that, but it would have taken me from 5VP (holding 1) to 15 (holding 2 = 10VP, + 5VP for holding more than opponent). So perhaps a better way of saying it would have been 'an additional 10VP'. It could have been more, as we (by agreement) ended at end of turn 5, but the tournament allowed up to 6 rounds = I could have scored another 15 in turn 6, but time was against us and we both decided to call it a day :)

[Dracos]

Either here or in the Ravenspire I'd like to hear what mission and secondaries you chose. I assume it was one of the list we were discussing in the RG forum?